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Dev blog: A new Era of Clones

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Author
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Tyby
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#181 - 2014-12-03 11:29:26 UTC
good move CCP, can't wait top go back to flying dictors Lol

i can't really believe there is so much but hurt against this change; this is one of those rare changes that only bring benefits to every player no matter how old...and cheap clones will probly mean ppl will use the extra money for implants= better eve

common,really, you guys will complain even when CCP is giving you a nice ******* gift?! Roll
Arcos Vandymion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#182 - 2014-12-03 11:35:08 UTC
Quote:
The cost of setting your home station will be increased from 5400 ISK to 100,000 ISK.
This keeps the cost of moving your home station low without making it completely trivial.

Haven't laughed that hard in an entire week.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#183 - 2014-12-03 12:16:27 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
I am not sure if CCP have considered this, but how will this effect the current importance of medical facilities?

As of now, medical facilities are of vital strategic importance, as if your reanimate in a station without medical facilities, then you cannot upgrade your clone and basically cannot pvp unless you risk losing SP.

For this reason most people try and base their corporation at a location with a medical facility, and there is real meaning to death as if you are defending an area with no medical facility then when you are podded you end up out the fight. Many corporations have based themselves around stations with vital medical facilities for these reasons.

Are there any plans now to keep the importance of medical facilities? As of now they have no purpose with this change, and a massive blow has been struck to the strategic planning of many corporations.

Ive still seen no adequate response to this concern ^

Only the goon economic warfare blah blah team seem to be responding trying to underplay what is going to be a massive strategic change, which means that this will probably benefit goons; I'm betting they will send one of their acolytes to respond to this now trying to underplay it again.

Is there any chance of a response from CCP on what their plans out though for medical bays though? I really would like to know whether they are going to be relevant and worth fighting over still, as of right now they are worth practically nothing.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#184 - 2014-12-03 12:21:03 UTC
Distant Soul wrote:
Natalia Srebnaja wrote:
Aliventi wrote:
[b]First: Awesome.

(...)

GET RID OF ATTRIBUTES. Attributes, attribute implants, and remaps do far more harm than good. A simple everyone trains at 2700 sp/hour is a far better system.


What a wonderfully well put together post!



this is the dumbest thing ive ever heard. must be a butthurt WoW player who doesnt like the current system.

And the goon propoganda merchants which are rife in this thread apparently support this also along with removing standing penalties for missioning with opposing factions.

Apparently goons are now pansy's that need to be hand held so that these "vicious and random" mechanics do not hurt them.

If something smells fishy then you know there is an ulterior motive, as the goon merchants are clearly showing in this thread; this change to medical facilities must be benefiting them in some way.

And I can predict that next they are going to tell us that they are simply trying to improve the game and help subs.
Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#185 - 2014-12-03 12:43:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik
Fun times in cheap ships ahead Big smile

I know it will breathe a bit of life in my game. I may even close this corp and start actively playing again Smile

Thanks, CCP Blink
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#186 - 2014-12-03 13:11:22 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
I am not sure if CCP have considered this, but how will this effect the current importance of medical facilities?

As of now, medical facilities are of vital strategic importance, as if your reanimate in a station without medical facilities, then you cannot upgrade your clone and basically cannot pvp unless you risk losing SP.

For this reason most people try and base their corporation at a location with a medical facility, and there is real meaning to death as if you are defending an area with no medical facility then when you are podded you end up out the fight. Many corporations have based themselves around stations with vital medical facilities for these reasons.

Are there any plans now to keep the importance of medical facilities? As of now they have no purpose with this change, and a massive blow has been struck to the strategic planning of many corporations.

Ive still seen no adequate response to this concern ^

Only the goon economic warfare blah blah team seem to be responding trying to underplay what is going to be a massive strategic change, which means that this will probably benefit goons; I'm betting they will send one of their acolytes to respond to this now trying to underplay it again.

Is there any chance of a response from CCP on what their plans out though for medical bays though? I really would like to know whether they are going to be relevant and worth fighting over still, as of right now they are worth practically nothing.

Well, I was content to leave organizational affiliations out of this discussion, but since you seem so eager to drag it in, let ol' Uncle Querns schoolfeed you a bit.

The thing about this line of thinking is that it really doesn't affect us, in particular. Goonswarm Federation, and the CFC in general, tend to operate exclusively out of conquerable stations and outposts. The thing about these stations is that every single one has medical facilities. Scarcity of cloning is only a concern for those who don't own any sov.

Knowing this, you can extrapolate the change to say that the removal of clone grades and the subsequent removal of the possibility of SP loss only harms us, in the long run, by removing a potential discouragement from the game.

However, the fact of the matter is, it's like you said — this change is an unabashed positive for the whole of the game, including those we would rather not be. No amount of prefacing the rest of the conversation with a warning about these sorts of statements takes that away. We're allowed to point out when changes just make things objectively better without it constituting a mote of propaganda, slithering demurely from our inexorable spin-holes.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#187 - 2014-12-03 13:22:43 UTC
The dev blog was pretty interesting even though I oppose this type of change as a whole. I stinks of EA and the long term goal of making Eve more scalable to EA. It's part of a wider slippery slope though.

Give it another 5 years and we'll all be playing wow in space assuming we all stick around.

Anyhow the one positive thing to come of this is the subtle hint that we'll be able to harvest implants from floating corpses at some point in the future.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Aiyshimin
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#188 - 2014-12-03 13:44:01 UTC
Tyby wrote:
good move CCP, can't wait top go back to flying dictors Lol

i can't really believe there is so much but hurt against this change; this is one of those rare changes that only bring benefits to every player no matter how old...and cheap clones will probly mean ppl will use the extra money for implants= better eve

common,really, you guys will complain even when CCP is giving you a nice ******* gift?! Roll


What gift? What benefit?
Gwenvahar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#189 - 2014-12-03 13:46:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Gwenvahar
As a fundamental mechanic for what motivated players to play better, I dont see this as a great change. No death penalty takes a great deal of sting out of EvE.

In every MMO I ever 'loved' it was the little irritations which define the character of the game. Tinker with them at your peril DEVs.

As an after thought I see Pay to Win, direct skill point injections on the horizon in the micro transaction cash shop. Not to mention why even have 'pods' anymore.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#190 - 2014-12-03 13:50:42 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Tyby wrote:
good move CCP, can't wait top go back to flying dictors Lol

i can't really believe there is so much but hurt against this change; this is one of those rare changes that only bring benefits to every player no matter how old...and cheap clones will probly mean ppl will use the extra money for implants= better eve

common,really, you guys will complain even when CCP is giving you a nice ******* gift?! Roll


What gift? What benefit?

It's the gift of freedom from rote busywork.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#191 - 2014-12-03 13:54:46 UTC
Querns wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
I am not sure if CCP have considered this, but how will this effect the current importance of medical facilities?

As of now, medical facilities are of vital strategic importance, as if your reanimate in a station without medical facilities, then you cannot upgrade your clone and basically cannot pvp unless you risk losing SP.

For this reason most people try and base their corporation at a location with a medical facility, and there is real meaning to death as if you are defending an area with no medical facility then when you are podded you end up out the fight. Many corporations have based themselves around stations with vital medical facilities for these reasons.

Are there any plans now to keep the importance of medical facilities? As of now they have no purpose with this change, and a massive blow has been struck to the strategic planning of many corporations.

Ive still seen no adequate response to this concern ^

Only the goon economic warfare blah blah team seem to be responding trying to underplay what is going to be a massive strategic change, which means that this will probably benefit goons; I'm betting they will send one of their acolytes to respond to this now trying to underplay it again.

Is there any chance of a response from CCP on what their plans out though for medical bays though? I really would like to know whether they are going to be relevant and worth fighting over still, as of right now they are worth practically nothing.

Well, I was content to leave organizational affiliations out of this discussion, but since you seem so eager to drag it in, let ol' Uncle Querns schoolfeed you a bit.

The thing about this line of thinking is that it really doesn't affect us, in particular. Goonswarm Federation, and the CFC in general, tend to operate exclusively out of conquerable stations and outposts. The thing about these stations is that every single one has medical facilities. Scarcity of cloning is only a concern for those who don't own any sov.

Knowing this, you can extrapolate the change to say that the removal of clone grades and the subsequent removal of the possibility of SP loss only harms us, in the long run, by removing a potential discouragement from the game.

However, the fact of the matter is, it's like you said — this change is an unabashed positive for the whole of the game, including those we would rather not be. No amount of prefacing the rest of the conversation with a warning about these sorts of statements takes that away. We're allowed to point out when changes just make things objectively better without it constituting a mote of propaganda, slithering demurely from our inexorable spin-holes.

This may not affect the goons then in terms of the medical facilities as you suggest, although it will have a massive impact on those of us living in NPC null sec and even low sec to some extent. It will plane the geography of regions such as stain and venal and many others.

I do agree with you in terms of the current clone mechanic being terrible, although I think CCP have overlooked the medical facility aspect, and so as you can see that this has massive consequences for those living in NPC regions.

All I am suggesting is that medical clones can "only" be set at a station with a medical facility, instead of the current arrangement of being able to set it at a corporation office.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#192 - 2014-12-03 13:57:35 UTC
It is sort of telling, seeing several people extoll this change as a net reduction in mastery associated with playing Eve. That having to remember to use a dialog after dying is seen as not only some sort of immense strategic decision, as well as a literal hallmark of differentiation between games in the same genre is fascinating. Like, really? Are we even playing the same videogame?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Gwenvahar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#193 - 2014-12-03 14:04:37 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:
In regards to the comments on making clones player created, and looking at how attributes and implants work. We are definitely looking at those kinds of things and we'll see where they go. We will be looking at removing unnecessary complexity, while keeping or adding to the depth of the mechanics.



Its complex and deep? Am I missing something?
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#194 - 2014-12-03 14:04:51 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
All I am suggesting is that medical clones can "only" be set at a station with a medical facility, instead of the current arrangement of being able to set it at a corporation office.

You are aware that pilots can only choose to sync their medical clone with the corporation's single designated system once per year, right?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#195 - 2014-12-03 14:13:07 UTC
Gwenvahar wrote:
As a fundamental mechanic for what motivated players to play better, I dont see this as a great change. No death penalty takes a great deal of sting out of EvE.

In every MMO I ever 'loved' it was the little irritations which define the character of the game. Tinker with them at your peril DEVs.

As an after thought I see Pay to Win, direct skill point injections on the horizon in the micro transaction cash shop. Not to mention why even have 'pods' anymore.


There is still a penalty to death. You lose any implants you CHOSE to install. You get wiped off the field, possibly far away to the station you CHOSE to put your clone at.

Yea there is a reason I'm highlighting choice. To steal a CCP quote from another thread, which personally I think sums up the whole clone cost issue best:

CCP Darwin wrote:
The fundamental issue is that clone grades don't add a choice. When you are pod killed, you aren't presented with an interesting question -- "Should I upgrade my pod? How much should I upgrade it?"

Instead, you either upgrade, and protect your skill points against an inevitable further pod kill, or you don't, and suffer. One choice is so incredibly better than the other that you'll always pick it, unless you happen to forget.

Good game design isn't about punishing mere forgetfulness. It should be about presenting a meaningful choice to a player and letting them pick which way to go, with benefits to offset risk. Clone upgrade costs just don't do that -- they present a choice for which there's only one right answer.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#196 - 2014-12-03 14:14:13 UTC
Querns wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
All I am suggesting is that medical clones can "only" be set at a station with a medical facility, instead of the current arrangement of being able to set it at a corporation office.

You are aware that pilots can only choose to sync their medical clone with the corporation's single designated system once per year, right?

Yes, but as I mentioned earlier in the thread, that drawback is trivial as most people who reside in the area which I live in and many other areas of NPC null are permanent residents. They've probably had their clone set in its current location for the last 5 years or more.

Also there is virtually no drawback to making it so medical clone can only be set at a station with medical facilities.

I'm sure you could support this simple fix Querns; there are no drawback, and it would only be beneficial in allowing us to keep the landscape of eve a little bumpy.
Gwenvahar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#197 - 2014-12-03 14:14:52 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
XR05 wrote:
UFS Fenix wrote:
What is this? The ***** convention? So much crying, Lets just remove everything that makes eve challenging. This change and the changes to awoxing really make me want to re-consider eve.


Yep, 100% true, 6-10 mo. and it's be "woo-online" so kids from 5 and up can play, may be somebody want to destroy EVE, like baby steps with this "micro" updates...


So apparently hitting a button to make sure your clone will retain all your SP is a challenge....

I don't think you guys understand what challenges are....


It's not the 'challenge' of clicking that matters but what it means to forget to click that matters. Because it's all supposed to matter and be connected to a bigger picture. If those extra three clicks make me feel like I did myself a favor in remembering to do it, that is part of the experience that is 'balanced' to me.
Aiyshimin
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#198 - 2014-12-03 14:15:27 UTC
Querns wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Tyby wrote:
good move CCP, can't wait top go back to flying dictors Lol

i can't really believe there is so much but hurt against this change; this is one of those rare changes that only bring benefits to every player no matter how old...and cheap clones will probly mean ppl will use the extra money for implants= better eve

common,really, you guys will complain even when CCP is giving you a nice ******* gift?! Roll


What gift? What benefit?

It's the gift of freedom from rote busywork.


lol, as if upgrading your clone would be "work"
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#199 - 2014-12-03 14:20:27 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Querns wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Tyby wrote:
good move CCP, can't wait top go back to flying dictors Lol

i can't really believe there is so much but hurt against this change; this is one of those rare changes that only bring benefits to every player no matter how old...and cheap clones will probly mean ppl will use the extra money for implants= better eve

common,really, you guys will complain even when CCP is giving you a nice ******* gift?! Roll


What gift? What benefit?

It's the gift of freedom from rote busywork.


lol, as if upgrading your clone would be "work"


Small amounts of work are still work. :shrug:

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#200 - 2014-12-03 14:24:08 UTC
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:
[quote=CCP]
inb4 clones are an item that can be built/grown and have to be constantly resupplied in nullsec stations for people to wake up in, else they wake up in the nearest npc station with clone facilities.


Not sure if sarcasm? But I actually love that idea...

High-sec clones should still have some cost. The previous mechanic was tricksy, but if they remove clone costs altogether, who is going to pay for them?

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind