Player Features and Ideas Discussion

No other factors or comparisons some into consideration? Just those two broad statements? Hard to do math without any variables or numbers.

the same could be said about rails.Just instead of high alpha, use high dps. There are plenty of tracking/range bonused hulls, and can still fit tank and speed, with rails. Thorax, deimos, moa, merlins, enyo, tristan, i could keep going. All these ships can fit rails and a moderate tank. The deimos completely ******* over the Muninn, which is artillery focused, but has a below 20K EHP tank to have a "good" fit with artillery. And the deimos isn't even a direct comparisons, as its deimos compared to vagabond, and ishtar vs muninn. Everyone knows ishtar is OP, so no point in using it in comparison for range fits. Lets compare with both being armor fit with similar layouts:

[Muninn, Armor Kite Muninn]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Damage Control II
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800

650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Warrior II x5

DPS (with drones): 439 w/ faction plasma @ 18+22km and volley amount is 1808
Speed: 2075 m/s cold, 2900 hot
tank: 15.7K EHP with a tankable dps of 288 hot. after 1 magazine of MAAR, total armor HP is around 9500

Now, to the Deimos:

[Deimos, Railbro]
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Warp Disruptor II

200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator II

Warrior II x5
Acolyte II x5

DPS (with drones): 590 w/ faction AM @ 19+19km w/ 1238 volley
Speed: 2106 cold, 3k hot
tank: 17K EHP, with tankable dps of 383 hot, after 1 magazine would bring total armor hit points up to roughly 11k


Now, that is the closest comparison i could make in relation to weapon size and tank/fits. Taking advantage of minmatar utility high, and deimos armor rep bonus. As a note, that is in no way how i would fly a muninn, because it sucks.

As is fairly obvious, the muninn needs a single PG rig to fit the smallest artillery, a rep, and a medium neut. The range, dps, speed and tank is inferior to the deimos in all ways, (unless your fighting a laser boat in it, then yay 94% EM resist).

You say, well you have a medium neut! Of course you need more PG. Drop the neut, and you don't need the rig. Ok, then do tell how i am to defend myself against frigates? With no web or neut, and only 5 small drones, a frigate, dessie, or some cruisers could get under my guns and cause me to miss, and do 0 dps. So you mean to tell me, to fit artillery, i need to sacrifice every defense i have against frigates to not use a PG rig? This on a ship DESIGNED to use artillery.

Meanwhile, the deimos can have 2 sets of light drones and a web for frig defense, vastly more dps, and have more speed, and tank, while only losing a minor amount of volley and tracking?

720's make medium artillery a slight bit better, since the added alpha is actually noticable (3120 with 720's using same fit, instead of 1800 with 650's). But the fit then requires 2 MACR, reducing tank even further.

Its like this in other scenario's as well, jaguar vs enyo/ishkur, wolf vs.. well anything. Jag is slightly faster than most AF's, so it at least has that going for it. But easily needs at least 2 PG mods to fit 280's and any form of tank, but still only does like 150dps. Many other minny ships are very difficult to get arty to fit and perform similar to their rail counterparts.

I'm not asking for more artillery dps, or more volley, or to give artillery better tracking. I want fitting reduced, and thats pretty much it, and i think its a fair start to get artillery moved into being a legit weapon system, just like rails. They still keep their slow RoF and high volley, and that keeps them different enough from rails and high dps.

Its true it can be a nightmare fitting artie on anything but a mael

CPU is also a constant issue for Amarr laser boats

Grid is a repetitive issue for caldari ships



nerf gallente!!

Lasers have the same issue. Funnily enough, the shortest range long range weapon isn't an issue on a fast ship....Because it's in range of everything else anyway. Except Blaster fits I suppose.

there is the 33% extra targets per minute that the mael alphas off the field

Just to add comedy value, a stabber with 250mm rails out damages a 650 arty stabber and 720s are flat out impossible to fit.

Here's one funny fact, artilleries are no dps guns, they are alpha guns.

Railguns are long range dps guns.

I agree that artillery as it currently stands, is a real pain to fit and only used as a niche weapon.

Let's face it, there are really just two real use cases. Alpha Tornado and Insta-Thrashers. the later is sometimes used to alpha non-instawarp interceptors.

Instacanes are a thing of the past, at least in fleet combat because BCs are way too squishy due to their sig radius and mediocre tank compared to battleships.

Nados are really mostly just used occasionally by actual null/low PVPers, they're mostly used to blap suspects or otherwise gank, even though as a ganking platform you can get a lot more out of 800mm Nados.

I posted that before, people are too caught up crying about the alpha to give a damn about anything else.

There is a special kind of feeling for being on the recieving end of those comparatively large numbers even if they are less frequent.