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How should we 'fix' ECM?
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Ayeshah Volfield
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2011-12-15 22:42:40 UTC
Remove 20s stun effect, make it just break current locks on successful RNG.

EVE is what happens when the rule of law does not apply and Darwinism is allowed to run freely.
Griznatch
Distinguished Gentleman's Boating Club
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#22 - 2011-12-15 23:04:59 UTC
Sensor damps and tracking disruptors already do what some of you are suggesting ecm should be changed to (except againt missile boats).

Ecm isnt the magic win button everyone claims it is. Yes having a falcon in your 5 man gang is a force multiplier, but so is logi. If you dont bring a gun to a gun fight, expect to lose.

I used to have a clever sig but I lost it.
Vachir Khan
Rugged Ruff and Ready
#23 - 2011-12-15 23:08:51 UTC
Hamatitio wrote:
Well it seems with the hybrid buff, the playerbase has moved onto the chance based mechanic of target jamming ECM.


No, not at all. People have been whining about ECM since forever, nothing changed.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2011-12-15 23:29:14 UTC
Griznatch wrote:
Sensor damps and tracking disruptors already do what some of you are suggesting ecm should be changed to (except againt missile boats).

Ecm isnt the magic win button everyone claims it is. Yes having a falcon in your 5 man gang is a force multiplier, but so is logi. If you dont bring a gun to a gun fight, expect to lose.


How much more fun is a 6v5+1 falcon than a 6v5+1 scimmy?

Do not pretend just because its a force multiplyer its the same as a logi.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Torin Corax
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2011-12-15 23:54:46 UTC
Don't have a major issue with dedicated ECM ships any more, but the drones seem a little out of wack especially when compared to other E-war drones. Personally I feel all the E-war drones need a good re-work to balance them out, or just scrap all of them and make E-war a module-only option.
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2011-12-16 00:04:18 UTC
Let sensor strength be a kind of 'hitpoints' for the ship.

So, a ship has 20 sensor strength, and is facing off against a ship with 5 ECM power.
The first 20 second cycle, the ECM victim has received 5 ECM points. No jam.
After 40 seconds, the ECM victim has received 10 ECM points. No jam.
After 60 seconds, the ECM victim has received 15 ECM points. No jam.
After 80 seconds, the ECM victim has received 20 ECM points. It's jammed.
Over this next 20 second period, 50% of the sensor strength 'heals'.
After 100 seconds, the ECM victim has 15 ECM points. No jam.
After 120 seconds, the ECM victim has 20 ECM points. Jammed.
After 140 seconds, the ECM victim has 15 ECM points. No jam.
Etc.

Under the current system, there would be a 25% chance to jam every 20 seconds. I hate luck in games.
Statistically, you will notice that the first 80 seconds are the same as current ECM.



ECM needs many changes, but the above is a somewhat quick fix.
Jenna Whitestar
United Mining And Distribution
#27 - 2011-12-16 00:13:39 UTC
Nephilius wrote:
If ECM really is that powerful, why isn't everyone using it? Hell, I have the skills trained up and I don't even use it.

Um, who doesn't have a falcon alt these days? Compare that number to the number of people who have an alt specifically for damping, painting, or tracking disrupting and you'll have your answer
Sam Marquez
Freelance Excavation and Resistance
#28 - 2011-12-16 02:20:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Sam Marquez
Here's my suggestion: have it break target locks and increase scan rez by a fixed amount (increased with bonuses of course) on the affected ship. Also, give it 100% chance to do so. ECM drones then would simply break target locks, and have a longer cycle than ship ECM.

ECCM would prevent the lock-breaking portion of ECM, but would only reduce the scan rez penalty, so ECM still retains some usefulness.

Thus it remains a fairly effective tool against ships of all sizes, without rendering the target completely helpless.
Archare
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2011-12-16 03:01:53 UTC
Ewar drones definitely could all use an overhaul in their design. As far as ecm boats themselves... mebbe reduce the jamming/lockout timer but keep module cycle time the same? Or make the time you're locked out based upon your chance to be jammed as well?
Dracko Malus
Messerschmitt Vertrieb und Logistik
#30 - 2011-12-16 06:21:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracko Malus
Muad 'dib wrote:
ECM imo should jam properly like now for 10 seconds and then 10 seconds cool down, or a 5 sec jam and 5 second damp effect etc etc.


But then they'd have to change the paper thin tank on the falcon to something a lot more substantial to bridge the cooldown. I fly Falcon and Pilgrim, and simply prefer the Pilgrim due to not having to be affected by the diceroll of success. Granted.. with 6 jammers on the Falcon they'll hardly ever get a chance to target.. but my DPS is also so abysmal, that I always need a DPS wingman to actually "get stuff done"

I might not be flying the best fit falcon... skipping scram/web etc and leaving those to my buddies.. but if you add a "cooldown" you'll simply rip the "solo capabilities" out of ECM ships. Also note I fly WH's so have to scrape another hislot...

I'd just leave it as it is. It's a niche kind of thing, as with all E-War.. what's next, Target painters have to melt the ship to give the Rapier some love?

Basically what you do with ECM is the same as with Neuts, and also sensor damps.. you shut down the ships defences.. they just all work in a different way.

Tess La'Coil's loveslave.
Julia Connor
P R O M E T H E U S
From Anoikis
#31 - 2011-12-16 06:25:40 UTC
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
Mumtaz Khan wrote:
Working as intended etc. etc.

Why do you retards keep insisting on fixing things that aren't broken? Just accept the fact that you got owned by someone who spends more time learning to play than complaining about ****. Oh, you're not butthurt? Then quit bitching about things you don't know about.


umadbro?

He's actually speaking the truth. ECM is fine as it is atm. We don't need to nerf because the other ewar mods aren't as effective especially when they all do different things.
FlameGlow
Perkone
Caldari State
#32 - 2011-12-16 07:13:17 UTC
Jenna Whitestar wrote:
Nephilius wrote:
If ECM really is that powerful, why isn't everyone using it? Hell, I have the skills trained up and I don't even use it.

Um, who doesn't have a falcon alt these days? Compare that number to the number of people who have an alt specifically for damping, painting, or tracking disrupting and you'll have your answer

2009 called, they want their falcon alts back
falcons are useless compared to what they were back then
Lilith Stargesu
Doomheim
#33 - 2011-12-16 07:29:20 UTC
LMAO, I'm out of the game for years on end and yet the same whine is still around.

I guess the magical non-existent falcon squadron that accompanies every enemy still roams, huh?

Silly slaves.
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2011-12-16 08:27:07 UTC
Hey I tell you what.

How about ECM not only prevents locking but also jamms other onboard electronics, so that ships aren't able to move by themselves and all modules go passive.

Another solution, which isn't actually bad. Locks aren't lost but guns and drones freeze. Fixes re-locking issue. Also introduce longer ECM cycles, less mess for target and offender.

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again
Valtis Thermalion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2011-12-16 08:54:27 UTC
ECM being tied to the RNG is pretty much my major complaint with it. When such a powerful form of e-war is essentially luck-based, getting jammed is incredibly annoying. Throw out the RNG, bring in deterministic, predictable mechanics and ECM would be much more tolerable.
Marcus Henik
Rules of Acquisition
#36 - 2011-12-16 09:53:10 UTC
Ecm is fine as is, stop qqing because ur derp gang failed to plan a counter.
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#37 - 2011-12-16 10:07:41 UTC
I use ECM and like it. I think its fine as is. but as a broad spectrum gamer I have noticed that...

20 seconds is just to long for a crowd control/debuff effect that strong, don't believe me? Find a other mmorpg/mopvpg with a 20 second CC usable in pvp. Go look really you wont find one over 10 sec in a game with any sense of balance that is designed for 5-30 man fights (tho over 50 a 20 sec off one combatant is fair, just not fun). If you just cut the cycle and cap cost it gos from 2 success lock you out for the hole fight/you die, to making you have to do more/play harder to manage.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Smabs
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2011-12-16 10:57:29 UTC
ECM has always been a bit of a garbage mechanic. It's not fun and is far too powerful in the context of really small fights. It also tends to act as a 'get out of jail free' card for people who make mistakes.

The new battlecruisers actually hurt ecm ships pretty badly, since they can pump out so much damage at long range. That kind of helps but it'd be nice to see the mechanic overhauled completely so that it's useful in gangs and fleets but not utterly devastating against 1 or 2 people.
Hauling Hal
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2011-12-16 14:06:38 UTC
ECM should reduce rate of fire for guns and missiles or cycle time for remote modules. This puts it back into the known effect and removes the %chance of sending people running to the forums. You could still base the effect of the module on the ratio of the ECM modules jamming strength versus the targets sig strength. This would allow you to perma jam pesky little frigates, like you can now, but it would be a nerf to jamming capitals in the current guise. Once locked, I'm not sure the carrier will care about a 4% reduction in its rep cycle time.
Hauling Hal
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2011-12-16 14:08:14 UTC
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
I use ECM and like it. I think its fine as is. but as a broad spectrum gamer I have noticed that...

20 seconds is just to long for a crowd control/debuff effect that strong, don't believe me? Find a other mmorpg/mopvpg with a 20 second CC usable in pvp. Go look really you wont find one over 10 sec in a game with any sense of balance that is designed for 5-30 man fights (tho over 50 a 20 sec off one combatant is fair, just not fun). If you just cut the cycle and cap cost it gos from 2 success lock you out for the hole fight/you die, to making you have to do more/play harder to manage.


Last time I looked, scrams and webs lasted until you turned them off, which is CC that lasts a lot longer than 20 seconds.