Wormholes

Well, I´d love to have a non-propmod-tengu running sites in every static and that should always escalate into a nice brawl, while I´d be able to replace my losses by running a site for 30 minutes. But that is not how eve works.
When living in a c2 became pointless because it was hard to sustain and fightless I moved out and so did many others. Thank god ccp is working on lowerends now and it is getting more populated every day again. Who pushed for this: Our CSMs starting with twostep, then james and the other guy and now corbexx and aya.

Yet you and many others do not want to loose your easy escalationmoney. What many people want to see fixed is smallgroup-escalationmoney>>>every other WH income (and probably any other inspace income in game unless you are Keith) and running in home = supersafe.

You can´t always run your escalations because you do not have enough or the wrong pilots online? Maybe you are living in the wrong hole or should run sites in your static where you do not rely on those specialized ships/pilots ( see Trinket´s point). Noone would tell a newbie who cannot fit a T2 drake it was unfair he couldn´t run c4 radars solo. If not everybody and his mother who can fly a capital had moved to c5s to farm lowerends wouldn´t have been that much of a desert.

A bigger, better organized group can run sites all day and you can´t do anything about that? They already can do that, but if they do it in their static or even your home you can actually fight them. Last time I disturbed a big alliance´s homeescalationfarming they threw 7 capitals at my bomber.
You do not want 300+ pilotcorps to be sustainable. Right now there are more big groups than I want to say ever, but that might be wrong. But for sure there aren´t much fewer. They do that by not farming in wormholes or having escalationalts in another hole.

If you only get 2-3 new sites a week you should probably move anyways since you are living in a really dead constellation. And you know what also fixes the problem with too few sites: Running your static.

If the money was more evenly spread and not so focused on escalations you´d probably be making more money since the 2-hours- a-day-escalation-farm-machines would **** up the ribbonprices. And you would not be so reliant on your two homesites a week.



Players made null stagnant, riskaversity and money-over-fun as the main points for that. Blaming CCP for that is just wrong.
There weren´t many changes to null and some were even made against player influence: Truesec affecting anomspawns, no way anyone living in null was for that. Alchemyrebalance and dronealloys spaked big wars.
Same for higherclass WHs: There is less content because players decided to form bigger groups and leaving many holes empty, CCP didn´t force anyone to do so. But if those big groups of those days like Lost,starbridge or Talun threw 30-40 BCs at you you could either fight them with your 20 T3 and be at risk of loosing or find more people and fight with 40 T3s and not risk loosing. Guess which one people did do. Ofc nobody likes loosing, that is human nature. Not CCP´s fault.

TLDR;
noone wants to take your income away, just make it less topheavy and add some risk.
And bigger corps aren´t ccp´s fault unless you want them to make every WH a frighole and every systemeffect a C6 red giant so they can´t blob you.

Also I lost my ability to english.

Yes the same old escalation runners have it super safe argument.

First, you are ignoring the fact that most small C4 corporations run sites exclusively in their home holes and close it down before doing any PvE as well. So this is not some C5/C6 phenomenon.

Secondly, everyone (but C1 inhabitants) can super easily collapse their connections and run sites at home in absolute safety if they care to do so. You can even run sites in your static in safety (not considering the locals logging in) if you take that little extra time to roll the connections there too.

Thanks to higgs anchor rigs collapsing is super easy & fast now (so awesome thx CCP o/). If low class residents can't be arsed to use them it's their own fault.

You know the difference between committing capitals and running sites with your favorite potato vessel is? One can't just mjd out when a new signature pops up and a huge blob of t3s pours in :>

Edit: My point being --> smart people will still not expose themselves to unnecessary risk, even when ratting in their static. If I'm going out on a 2h ratting spree in my static, why wouldn't I take 15 minutes to close down all connections in there first?

I like the idea of Bastion Marauders triggering escalation waves in c4 space

Guess you didn't leap enough.
Here is my offer: I am launching a newbie training corp in our C2/c5,null on friday. Join us and learn how much fun it is compared to log in - close doors - cap esc - log off thing.

People seem to forget that WHs are about exploration and that WHs are a desert because there is no need to explore.

I really cannot see how complaining that pushing content from escalating the home hole (current) into farming statics (proposal) and your whining about it isn't in any way connected. If that's not your point, you have no point, and are just complaining for the sake of it.

Yeah, your income will be cut in half. Sucks to be you. Sucks to be everyone else who does it. More props to the peoplewho aren't running an operation which is them, their alts, the secondary alts, and takes 30 minutes a day to plex four accounts. Boohoo waahwaah, grow a set.

I'm not believing the whole "pushing content" to the static is good for wh space angle. I think it's just spin. My justification???

1. I really truely believe that folks will NOT become prompt stupid or prompt careless just because folks PUSH (your word for forcing folks to play the way you want them to) isk making toward the static. There wil not suddenly be a herd of unicorns in every static waiting to be harvested. A couple of cloaked scouts on whs and MJD marauders w/ a cloak in that utility high slot will be super slippery at best.

2. I don't see a mass exodus of folks jumping into their statics because of this change. I see many folks getting by on the new lower income or simply leaving WH space for better incursion isk. Cut esc isk in half and folks will go for the incursion lay up - it's just human nature.

3. I keep hearing complaints about the 4 man alt corps locking up the wh, farming and logging. This change won't hurt them. It will cut their income in half for sure, but if I were running a 4 alt farming operation, half the current isk would be just fine. This won't change the guys you're calling out. (pro hint - you're not kicking the guys you say you are in the nutz)

4. Look at the mechanics your are creating. (you'll need to look at this from the rabbits persepctive - not your own). Large corps will still drop an overkill number of dreads on home sites with no real risk. Now the smaller guys.... what will they do, or more accurately.... what won't they do? In the home wh there will never be a second carrier to gank. It's not needed, so it won't be put on the field. You won't NEED a second dread, so that may or may not be there (pro hint - you just reduced the 4 alt farming requirement to be a 2 or 3 alt operation). This change shrinks the fleet you're able to gank in the home system. For the coveted static farmers that you gank... what will you get? At best 1 carrier and support, but more likely a subcap fleet. So the 'content' you are claiming will magically appear and will magically be harvest ready will be a pale shadow of the current fair you currently can't get enough of.

There is no improved PVP - this propsed change is about ganking farmers (look at how the mass / range thing delivered all the rolling ganks that were predicted). It doesn't really improve PVE ganks either as the min fleet requirements are reduced both in the home wh and in the static.

This proposal does improve the isk making potential for large wh corps that need static farming to fund their large numbers.

Read again.

I am for getting folks out and about ( who isn't? ). I'm also saying this isn't going to do it. These positions aren't mutually exclusive. Not a circle.

I recommended that if folks outgrow the size restrictions that wh space imposes that they should look at moving to null / low sec to play as they disire. This proposed change will allow for ever bigger wh groups which I feel is bad for wh space. I'm saying little guys moving out to get better incursion isk if this proposed change goes through will be a valid option for them. These are 3 seperate things - if you see them as one item I can see where you are confused. Again, not a circle.

You on the other hand claim escallation isk is broken (too much) and that something needs to be done, AND that the 350 mil is to replace the lost isk. If you are looking for circular logic - there it is.

To be clear (non circular):

1. This proposed change won't force folks that don't already farm in their static to suddenly do so.
2. Even if more folks do go to their static to farm - they won't be easy marks. Ganking PVE fleets is not in my opinion a form of PVP it's ganking (don't read too much into that - I gank stuff every chance I get and am all for it - I'm just stating there is a difference between a 'good fight' and a 'gank' and this promotes ganks not good fights)
3. This proposed change makes it possible to feed even larger herds grazing in their statics - I think larger herds is bad for wh space.


All this proposed change will do is put more isk in the hands of larger wh corps that already farm their statics - which in my opinion will be way more borked than the current escalltion scheme. It gives even more isk than the present amounts to a smaller number of pilots. It's just bad math. The only way to get in on this windfall is to 'big up'.

It's going to do more than leaving things as-is will. If the sites a player needs to run aren't in that player's home they will run them where they find them. I don't run things outside my home hole at the moment. Shattered wormholes are going to change that. I will be out and about more taking on more risk because those holes will have things I want. People follow the content, if they need it.



So leaving wspace because you got too big is a positive thing, but leaving wspace because your potential income was reduced is a bad thing? This is silly and reflects some personal bias you have against large entities. That is why the logic appears circular to others but not to you. We should want people in wspace, period. You can't suggest that people leaving is good on one hand and bad on the other, when the reasons are opposite movements on the same scale (outgrowing the money versus the money being reduced).

I'm well aware of what's gone on in null and the affect it's had on the game. I don't like it either. Wspace is different, large entities aren't evicting smaller ones for the lulz, as far as I know anyway. Null is a cesspool of hate and attrition, wspace has a community with some grudges but mostly everybody is cool with each other. If you think this change is going to bloom corp/alliance sizes and ruin wspace I think you are making assumptions that go a bit beyond their reasonable conclusions.



I love finding the one statement in a post that explains why that person doesn't get the point. This one was yours.

I am saying that a single site, which should despawn when cleared, being left open with one rat to ensure it fully respawns the next day and can be run again... is a broken mechanic. This allows for increased ISK gains that have become commonplace and are basically grandfathered into the balance of wormhole ISK potential. That broken mechanic, farming the same site for days, is going to get taken out. Because the mechanic is the problem and not the ISK, there has to be some change to maintain a similar ISK intake. Along with this ISK fix we seem to be getting a slight increase in risk for those who continue to run those sites under the new mechanics.



#1 You have no way of knowing this, guaranteeing this, nor did you explain why it won't happen. People follow the content. You seem to think people will leave wspace to run Incursions, but that they won't run sites 1 jump from their home. This seems a bit of a stretch.

#2 Good, we're talking about the residents of some of the highest class holes in the game. They better not be easy targets. As far as ganks versus fights, I agree with your distinction, but EVE needs both. Even if I curse the stars when I get ganked, I still understand the need for it to happen.

#3 I don't know all the numbers, but I can't imagine that a per-site bonus of 350m ISK per run, over 3-4 runs, is much larger than the ISK earned from running the same site 3 or 4 times a week under the current mechanics. Keeping in mind that the site is being fully escalated each time. If somebody has numbers on this please feel free to correct me. But your point was about people who already run sites in their statics, so maybe this will be a bonus for them specifically. I can't really complain about that if they were outside their home hole doing stuff before they were ever forced to be.

Your conclusion basically says that this change makes things harder for small corps, but we're also talking about high-end wormholes, so that makes sense. A small corp should have a hard time running stuff anywhere above a C4, not to mention they can probably match the ISK/player of a large corp in a higher class hole as a small corp in a lower class hole anyway.

Small corp players can make decent ISK without using their statics, large corp players can't. The bigger they get, the less they can make per player. This is a natural limitation of wspace and mitigates what happened in null.

I'm not mad, neither was I ranting. Words set in caps are generally a good indication that someone might be trolling ...

However, in everything I write you will find truth. If one shouldn't be able to make 1,4b/h (= 2xescalation) multiboxing 4+ chars in C5/C6 space, surely one shouldn't be able to make 350m/h using a single rather cheap ship in C4. Don't you think?



I come around a lot. Come to think of it, I visited your hole only about 10 days ago. One might find evidence of that on my killboards ... joke's on you m8 :P

Yes! It's hypothetical, as are many things that are said about escalations.

I'm pretty sure that CCP will remove the ability to run escalations multiple days in a row no matter what is argued in this thread, as long as it isn't tied into the POS code. And I'm fine with that. It's bad game design. This will hurt both isk efficiency (especially for small groups that only run a few select sites to begin with) and overall in-home income (which will hurt the somewhat larger corporations and force them into the static) substantially.

Any more nerfing beyond that is absolutely unnecessary.

Why would someone choose to live in a C5 system in a scenario where capitals are mostly useless and the better iskies are in the static? C2-C5 or C4-C5/C6 systems would be much more comfortable (logistics) and safe (evictions).