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Steps to survive Freighter bumping from Mach

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Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#21 - 2014-12-02 13:02:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Omar Alharazaad
Just a guess, but I'd hazard what he means is that the frigate is likely to land in the mach's path and be bumped instead, while at the same time throwing the mach's vector of approach off marginally. If this is the case it might give the poor freighter a chance to align to a celestial and GTFO.
Space billiards.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-12-02 13:25:52 UTC
Lister Dax wrote:
For reasons that are easy enough to deduce, i'd just like to say - 'watchlisted'

Pirate


I remember your corp. I was in it. Yeah, then Praethis Starloe heisted an ITAH wormhole for a few bil and invited me to join them, taught me to PVP. Ah, nostalgia. Tell me, are you guys still carebears? Does DJLJR still suck in assault frigates? I noticed Death Perfect is back so maybe you guys have some hope.... unless I steal him from you. We'll see.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Cybermage Ajion
AZOIK ACADEMY
#23 - 2014-12-02 13:32:23 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Lister Dax wrote:
For reasons that are easy enough to deduce, i'd just like to say - 'watchlisted'

Pirate


I remember your corp. I was in it. Yeah, then Praethis Starloe heisted an ITAH wormhole for a few bil and invited me to join them, taught me to PVP. Ah, nostalgia. Tell me, are you guys still carebears? Does DJLJR still suck in assault frigates? I noticed Death Perfect is back so maybe you guys have some hope.... unless I steal him from you. We'll see.


Ah, this deserves a lol - classic Eve.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#24 - 2014-12-02 13:59:36 UTC
My personal favorite is to have an escorting Dramiel or Daredevil. They're fast and have great lock times, and you can use them to hit your freighter with webs immediately after you tell it to align.

That makes it insta warp.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#25 - 2014-12-02 14:01:36 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Just a guess, but I'd hazard what he means is that the frigate is likely to land in the mach's path and be bumped instead, while at the same time throwing the mach's vector of approach off marginally. If this is the case it might give the poor freighter a chance to align to a celestial and GTFO.
Space billiards.

Nope. I'm saying you place the frigate 200km away from the freighter in the direction the freighter is being bumped. Theoretically you should be to warp the freighter to the frigate, then warp out. In practice I do not fly a freighter so I have no means to test it.

Bumper ----> Freighter ----> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Frigate

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#26 - 2014-12-02 14:06:47 UTC
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Just a guess, but I'd hazard what he means is that the frigate is likely to land in the mach's path and be bumped instead, while at the same time throwing the mach's vector of approach off marginally. If this is the case it might give the poor freighter a chance to align to a celestial and GTFO.
Space billiards.

Nope. I'm saying you place the frigate 200km away from the freighter in the direction the freighter is being bumped. Theoretically you should be to warp the freighter to the frigate, then warp out. In practice I do not fly a freighter so I have no means to test it.

Bumper ----> Freighter ----> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Frigate


Why not just web the damned thing? That seems far more complicated, and while it can be a solution to getting caught, the better solution is just not getting caught in the first place.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#27 - 2014-12-02 14:10:38 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Just a guess, but I'd hazard what he means is that the frigate is likely to land in the mach's path and be bumped instead, while at the same time throwing the mach's vector of approach off marginally. If this is the case it might give the poor freighter a chance to align to a celestial and GTFO.
Space billiards.

Nope. I'm saying you place the frigate 200km away from the freighter in the direction the freighter is being bumped. Theoretically you should be to warp the freighter to the frigate, then warp out. In practice I do not fly a freighter so I have no means to test it.

Bumper ----> Freighter ----> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Frigate


Why not just web the damned thing? That seems far more complicated, and while it can be a solution to getting caught, the better solution is just not getting caught in the first place.

Yes, more a strategy if you get caught and need a way to bail yourself out.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#28 - 2014-12-02 14:41:21 UTC
Cybermage Ajion wrote:
So uncloak, safe logout = 30 seconds. While in safe logout, he locks me. Is safe logout canceled? And if they shoot safe logout canceled?

My assumption: yes, yes

Otherwise, force logout = 60 seconds to disappear. What you stated above, so screwed beyond believe.

thanks, i am grasping the problem better now.

Very yes.

Like I said, bumping's a death sentence.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Lister Dax
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-12-02 14:41:38 UTC
Seriously OP, looking at your 2 loss mails, the biggest help would be to not over-fill your ships. You're far less likely to be targeted if you aren't a big juicy target.

Remiel Pollard wrote:
Lister Dax wrote:
For reasons that are easy enough to deduce, i'd just like to say - 'watchlisted'

Pirate


I remember your corp. I was in it. Yeah, then Praethis Starloe heisted an ITAH wormhole for a few bil and invited me to join them, taught me to PVP. Ah, nostalgia. Tell me, are you guys still carebears? Does DJLJR still suck in assault frigates? I noticed Death Perfect is back so maybe you guys have some hope.... unless I steal him from you. We'll see.


Heh were you? Cool. Well as you can see, DP is CEO now so things are changing, once we decide where to go/have decent active numbers.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#30 - 2014-12-02 14:48:50 UTC
Bumping makes flying a freighter unduly risky. Better off hauling in something that can avoid bumping like a brick tanked battleship, and using courier contracts for bigger loads.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#31 - 2014-12-02 15:02:47 UTC
You know, I really hope that someone like Greyscale or Fozzie doesn't see this and decide to be all "oh, it's such a big problem for you guys? let me give you a hand with that :3" and triple the base EHP on freighters without thinking about the underlying problem that affects the entire game, and not just one single aspect of it. I seriously have troubles sleeping at night thinking about these things now.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#32 - 2014-12-02 16:01:52 UTC
Cybermage Ajion wrote:
Rockstede wrote:
Also if you have a second character then a counter bumper is also a good tactic.

Warp to the gate ahead of the freighter and begin pre-emptively bumping any machariels on the gate.

You will occasionally irritate the odd innocent mach but they'll get over it.


ROFL, that must be fun of its own.

Thanks.

What about the game's mechanic about logout and stuff...


you will still be in space until they either bump you in the direction warp the log off wants to take you or they gank you, ive seen it happen many times during burn jita

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2014-12-02 16:09:00 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
When coming out of a station warp to a instant-undock bookmark that's several 100 km out you put there before hand.

Generally good idea to have one at every trade hub station.


I prefer my insta-undocks to be offgrid. This forces them to be able to probe out that insta and they won't see where you warped to after that.
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#34 - 2014-12-02 16:20:53 UTC
The imagery.....

Eve....big ass space ships shooting each other stuff blowing up. They slowly are getting closer and closer...the music is building.

And once they reach each other.....boop....they bounce off each other and roll to the side like 2 new born kitties.....so adorable.
Optimo Sebiestor
The New Eden School of trade
Organization of Skill Extracting Corporations
#35 - 2014-12-02 16:22:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Optimo Sebiestor
A) Listen to the guy that is talking about racing an interceptor @ the bump alignment to get a fast and secure warpout.
B) What you want to use when you web Your freigther, is a hyena. Just add speed mods in lows for getting in range, use 1 x sebo to more or less instalock, and 3x webs to get it warping more or less instantly. If you get caugth, run fetch Your interceptor to save Your freigther.
Trevor Dalech
Nobody in Local
Deepwater Hooligans
#36 - 2014-12-02 18:33:27 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
This is a flawed mechanic that needs to be addressed, because there's no counter to it that an individual player can apply. Everything (well, almost everything) in EVE has some form of counter to it (fit more tank to survive ganks, etc etc), but this doesn't. Once the bumping starts, there's absolutely nothing you can do, short of logging off and hoping that you don't get a timer. It's like tackling someone illegally, but not getting any sort of consequence. There were proposals in the past for various player-focused fixes, such as modules that significantly increased your ship's mass at the expense of other things, but nothing has come through.

PS: saying this as a pro-gank player.


The counter to the solo freighter is the bumping mach.
The counter to the bumping mach is a web alt/friend.

So yes, everything has a counter. What is the problem again?
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#37 - 2014-12-02 18:34:28 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
If they don't attempt to gank you withing a reasonable time (an hour maybe), then submit a ticket reporting them for harassment. As far as I remember, bumping for extended periods of time with no intent to take any other action beyond preventing someone from being able to play is considered harassment.




While bumping is a legitimate mechanic, so is the pail and shovel in a sandbox. And I predict that a day will come, when enough kids have been whacked with the pail and shovel and then pointed to and laughed at, "mommy" (CCP) is going to be forced to do something about it.


Hopefully dear mother will handle it the "Eve way". Rather than just get rid of it or use Concord, just suspect flag the people who repeatedly bump a ship one too many times and let the players handle it.


LOLage from both directions (people looking for highsec PVP and people wanting highsec PVP that does not shoot at them) will ensue.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#38 - 2014-12-02 18:47:09 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Hopefully dear mother will handle it the "Eve way". Rather than just get rid of it or use Concord, just suspect flag the people who repeatedly bump a ship one too many times and let the players handle it.

LOLage from both directions (people looking for highsec PVP and people wanting highsec PVP that does not shoot at them) will ensue.

Your idea is either really easy to get around, or extremely easy to exploit. Maybe even both. It would ultimately serve to make the problem even worse. Trying to target the non-consensual pvp crowd for a "morality beatdown" usually does, as you should well be aware of by now. Do you know why non-consensual pvp is very often so unidirectional in nature? It's because the attackers make a habit of solving problems, while the targets make a habit of blaming them on others.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#39 - 2014-12-02 18:52:22 UTC
Cybermage Ajion
AZOIK ACADEMY
#40 - 2014-12-02 20:39:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Cybermage Ajion
Lister Dax wrote:
Seriously OP, looking at your 2 loss mails, the biggest help would be to not over-fill your ships. You're far less likely to be targeted if you aren't a big juicy target.

Remiel Pollard wrote:
Lister Dax wrote:
For reasons that are easy enough to deduce, i'd just like to say - 'watchlisted'

Pirate


I remember your corp. I was in it. Yeah, then Praethis Starloe heisted an ITAH wormhole for a few bil and invited me to join them, taught me to PVP. Ah, nostalgia. Tell me, are you guys still carebears? Does DJLJR still suck in assault frigates? I noticed Death Perfect is back so maybe you guys have some hope.... unless I steal him from you. We'll see.


Heh were you? Cool. Well as you can see, DP is CEO now so things are changing, once we decide where to go/have decent active numbers.


Sure, but you get killed for sport more often then for the cargo. I have seen a lot of kill mails with under 1 bil cargo.

So you either die poor - slowly or fast.

I enjoy hauling stuff for people. This eve's job is very simple and efficient. Beats mining any day, trading, industry, missions, exploring - for me. Which i have done, when i didn;t have a job and other responsibilities.

This enables me to do work, read, watch news and etc. And anytime i need to go afk, i park at the station.

http://evedarklord.blogspot.ca/2014/07/counter-ganking.html
^ this is nice, mostly everything you guys talked about.

All that i am drawing as a conclusion here is flying with an ALT or eventually die - all the time.

So lets see what we have 3 real solutions: did i miss anything.

1) Web you freighter and warp out. Does this still work if you are already getting bumped?

2) And use other material to out bump another evil, nasty, stinky rotting Macharial. Note it is not about the player, but the ship ;)

3) Pick another eve career.

Is this it?

Anyone got a fit for Bumping Macharial, or is it just straight, speed and agility?

Thank you, i still would have liked to IP nuke em, ah the 90s ;)