These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Fix Warping Sideways
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
LeHarfang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-12-15 06:29:52 UTC  |  Edited by: LeHarfang
What i find annoying is that as a pilot, you don't see your ship warp sideways and nowhere in it says it has to either. I mean, seeing the ships not being synced even enough for the ship to appear sideways, when coming in is simply ridiculous. I could understand technology only permitted that in 2003, but i'm sure their server is more powerful today.

They just have to change the warping code to include the initial position of the ship so that it starts moving calculation at that position instead of the default one.

Now yes, it would add a bit of load for fleet wars, but it could only be on warping when there is already other people at our destination.

Seeing ships warping in sideways takes out a lot of their prestige, grandeur and awesomness and defeats a little the athmosphere the game is supposed to have. I mean, when i started playing last year, i thought it was just a simple bug the devs had yet to fix, but from what i've read, it's been there since the very beginning, so i think it's time to step up the game a bit.

Alright, let the flaming begins.

Edit: Btw, the warping sideways that i'm talking about is the one that happens for others, when they see your ship turning as they come out of warp. Not the one where it is the warp tunnel that's badly oriented since this one has already been fixed a while ago.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2 - 2011-12-15 06:45:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
LeHarfang wrote:
Now yes, it would add a bit of load for fleet wars
Thank you, that will be all.

Denied!

Blink


Ok, more seriously: this is just an artefact of how ships don't actually have a direction, but the model of the ship does, and syncing one up to the other will end up looking just as silly as not syncing them. You'll have 16km-long Titans do a 180° spin in 0 seconds. Yes, it might be sensible to assume that ship models coming out of warp will be given an initial direction that corresponds to the direction of travel, but that would require a (tiny) bit more setup in the physics simulation every time someone arrives on grid, which, as you hint at, will probably be horrid as the scale and number of arrivals increase.
LeHarfang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2011-12-15 07:48:56 UTC  |  Edited by: LeHarfang
Tippia wrote:
LeHarfang wrote:
Now yes, it would add a bit of load for fleet wars
Thank you, that will be all.

Denied!

Blink


Ok, more seriously: this is just an artefact of how ships don't actually have a direction, but the model of the ship does, and syncing one up to the other will end up looking just as silly as not syncing them. You'll have 16km-long Titans do a 180° spin in 0 seconds. Yes, it might be sensible to assume that ship models coming out of warp will be given an initial direction that corresponds to the direction of travel, but that would require a (tiny) bit more setup in the physics simulation every time someone arrives on grid, which, as you hint at, will probably be horrid as the scale and number of arrivals increase.


When people warp to you and dont move aftyerward, their ship flips in the right direction, so that means the initial data is actually calculated and stored on the server (or on the clients, depending on how they made it). Fixing this is only a matter of startting the calculations earlier so that people already on grid don't notice the flipping ocuring. The ship would rotate while not visible and not even rendered yet, so GPU needs would'nt increase because of this.

What do you think?
LeHarfang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-12-15 20:09:58 UTC
bump
LeHarfang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-12-15 23:40:55 UTC
bump?
LeHarfang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-12-16 05:03:51 UTC
44 views and only 1 person replied?
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
#7 - 2011-12-16 08:54:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Misanthra
think of it as drifiting....in a spaceship. Real men drive slideways lol.
LeHarfang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-12-16 09:39:30 UTC
lol but i don't even drive a car. Blink Would be nice to have that kind of thing in Dust, though. I liked jumping around and drifting in a warthog, in the Halo games.

EvE however, is about flying ships in space. I mean, you dont see aircrafts or sea ships advancing sideways (not at their maximum speed anyway) so i dont see why they should keep this bug. It's just about being logical and coherent with the rest of the EvE universe. When you warp in somewhere, you arent sideways, so they should'nt see you arriving like that.

A fleet of ships would look way more grandiose and fearsome arriving correctly then all bugged.
Levo Harkonnen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-12-16 13:57:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Levo Harkonnen
Warping sideways is awesome, just imagine the Enterprise D arriving sideways in to a battle. It's like drifting, but in space!
Selar Nox
#10 - 2011-12-16 17:52:39 UTC
+1
Christopher AET
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-12-16 22:13:29 UTC
The server tracks ships as a single point. it's the client that adds the models and as such the ship orientation based on this point and its direction. So to solve this problem a ship would need two points. A front and a rear one each tracked seperately. You can see how this would add lag.

I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance.
LeHarfang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-12-16 22:33:16 UTC
Christopher AET wrote:
The server tracks ships as a single point. it's the client that adds the models and as such the ship orientation based on this point and its direction. So to solve this problem a ship would need two points. A front and a rear one each tracked seperately. You can see how this would add lag.


You did'nt read anything i said, did you? All of what i said can be only calculated by the client and wouldn't even involve the server. If all the clients do the same calculations at the same speed, they'll be synced it will not add any lag to fleet fights.

There is a way to fix it without adding any lag, the only thing CCP needs to start working on it is the approval of the players and it is why i posted a thread here in the first place.
LeHarfang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-12-17 07:58:03 UTC
bump
LeHarfang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2011-12-18 06:04:02 UTC
bump
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#15 - 2011-12-18 06:41:38 UTC
LeHarfang wrote:
Christopher AET wrote:
The server tracks ships as a single point. it's the client that adds the models and as such the ship orientation based on this point and its direction. So to solve this problem a ship would need two points. A front and a rear one each tracked seperately. You can see how this would add lag.


You did'nt read anything i said, did you? All of what i said can be only calculated by the client and wouldn't even involve the server. If all the clients do the same calculations at the same speed, they'll be synced it will not add any lag to fleet fights.

There is a way to fix it without adding any lag, the only thing CCP needs to start working on it is the approval of the players and it is why i posted a thread here in the first place.

ships are a ball, models are assigned directions when the client is sent vector and acceleration data for the ball. This data is sent is sent when a ship is on grid with you.

In you proposal, server calculates exit point of warp, who is on that grid, transmits warp origin early so client can make the warp in look pretty. As im sure you can imagine, this would have a relatively high load impact and it would be pretty messy to decide who transmit the data to.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
LeHarfang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-12-18 08:02:37 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
LeHarfang wrote:
Christopher AET wrote:
The server tracks ships as a single point. it's the client that adds the models and as such the ship orientation based on this point and its direction. So to solve this problem a ship would need two points. A front and a rear one each tracked seperately. You can see how this would add lag.


You did'nt read anything i said, did you? All of what i said can be only calculated by the client and wouldn't even involve the server. If all the clients do the same calculations at the same speed, they'll be synced it will not add any lag to fleet fights.

There is a way to fix it without adding any lag, the only thing CCP needs to start working on it is the approval of the players and it is why i posted a thread here in the first place.

ships are a ball, models are assigned directions when the client is sent vector and acceleration data for the ball. This data is sent is sent when a ship is on grid with you.

In you proposal, server calculates exit point of warp, who is on that grid, transmits warp origin early so client can make the warp in look pretty. As im sure you can imagine, this would have a relatively high load impact and it would be pretty messy to decide who transmit the data to.


Well the warp exit is already being transmitted in the current build, on TQ. If the client has the entry, it will be able to calculate the initial direction of the ship. However, like you said, this warp origin point has to be transmitted to every player on grid. It would'nt be messy to decide who to send it to at all. Simple, everyone on grid at exit point receives it. Sending it to every ship on grid would be a whole lot of work for the connection and the server.

That said, there is one thing i would want to know though: how does the game knows from where to make the ships appear from when theyre warping in? The client could use those coordinates and it would'nt add any more load to the server and connection than now. Also, when in fleet warp, only one coordinate set (one point) is needed and the client would simply apply it to all of its ships warping in and maybe add some offset so that the ships looks a bit more parallels.

If we have both the origin and the exit points, i'm pretty sure the rendered orientation of the ship can be calculated. Fleets could use the same warp origin for all of their ships to reduce the data traffic needed in huge fleet warps.
LeHarfang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2011-12-18 22:00:40 UTC
bump
LeHarfang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2011-12-23 07:27:34 UTC  |  Edited by: LeHarfang
bump

This topic needs more debate.
LeHarfang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-01-08 04:13:58 UTC
bump
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2012-01-08 13:45:42 UTC
LeHarfang wrote:
bump

This topic needs more debate.



No it doesn't, it's an overcomplicated cosmetic change. It isn't worth the extra server load.
12Next page