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Ships that need damage nerfs
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Zavand Crendraven
Rolling Static
Wardec Mechanics
#41 - 2014-12-01 17:33:32 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
there is .. the last line .. i just haven't put any specific amount,
NVI - is better than most bc's .. thus obsoletes them entirely which is obviously a bad thing .. 900 dps fits and cruiser hull advantages..
Sentries - sig res is 400, a slight range nerf is probably right , but since they are for battleships they can't be nerfed too much or that won't be fair on the domi/other battleships, so a damage nerf to non battleship hulls make more sense

The VNI has 200m3 dronebay so when you kill a drone it cant replace it unless it has made sacrifices on different drones. 200m3 is enough for 1 set of heavies, 1 set of mediums and 1 set of lights or some combination of heavies and lights. If your a large ship then shoot down a few heavies and dps start to get anemic.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#42 - 2014-12-01 17:51:44 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Brutix puts out more firepower than a diemost.

i was expecting someone too point that out .. but i was generalising ofc. main point being why would you fly a bc when you can fly a cruiser that can do much the same thing but with the low sig, mobility, warp speed advantage..

lets see... cost, training time, survivability, just to name a few.


Its almost as if they simply look at unfitted hulls in EFT and base everything off that.
Shivanthar
#43 - 2014-12-01 19:30:21 UTC
Phaade wrote:
Shivanthar wrote:
Yesterday, I saw a sacrilege flashing red in sortet, surely waiting for a fair fight.
Gunned up my dusty stabber fleet issue and went out.
When I was undocking, I told myself "I am going to loose this ship"
After some brawling I lost. I enjoyed the fight.
I returned to station.
I continued to do my stuff.
Should sacrilege be nerfed? No. Is it powerful? It should be. Do I care? No.
I wanted to fight, I fought and lost and it was done.

Next time I am going to be more careful about overheating stuff. Learned from mistakes? Yes.
This should be the attitude of any pilot floating in space, and game recommends it this way.
No hard feelings against OP, but if they seem overpowered, I assume ccp already knows about it.



Your entire post is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

Create a larger straw man next time.


I won't argue with you. All I can say is read it until you see something relevant. If you insist you don't see anything, read one more time and trust me the idea will appear in front of you. Its like cross your eyes and see the 3D image.

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
Valkin Mordirc
#44 - 2014-12-01 20:15:02 UTC
Cruisers are actually pretty fine where they are. The VNI might do it's job to well, but it's certainly not on the levels how you are putting it.


For the most part, HAC's fill the role just fine. The Deimos probably one of the better ones, and the Eagle being probably the worst. I think the Deimos does just fine as is though, again maybe slightly overpowered. But not enough to lose a turret slot in exchange for a neut. It's an active tanking ship it doesn't need more cap pressure to put on itself.


Rather then calling for a Super-nerf on cruisers. What about a buff to CBC's?


Will agree the the Gila/Worm are OP, though. Gila can sling 1000dps with a bling fit. D=
#DeleteTheWeak
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#45 - 2014-12-01 20:34:09 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Cruisers are actually pretty fine where they are. The VNI might do it's job to well, but it's certainly not on the levels how you are putting it.


For the most part, HAC's fill the role just fine. The Deimos probably one of the better ones, and the Eagle being probably the worst. I think the Deimos does just fine as is though, again maybe slightly overpowered. But not enough to lose a turret slot in exchange for a neut. It's an active tanking ship it doesn't need more cap pressure to put on itself.


Rather then calling for a Super-nerf on cruisers. What about a buff to CBC's?


Will agree the the Gila/Worm are OP, though. Gila can sling 1000dps with a bling fit. D=


hardly a supernerf, just toning down some of the very strong dps cruisers too more reasonable dps levels .. try fitting a VNI with ogres and 2 blasters 3 DDA's and you'll see just how much dps you can get..
Deimos , i was thinking more a Nos too help its cap, with a small damage buff too compensate some dps loss.

Notice how there are no amarr or minmatar ships in my list..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Valkin Mordirc
#46 - 2014-12-01 21:44:37 UTC
Quote:
hardly a supernerf, just toning down some of the very strong dps cruisers too more reasonable dps levels .. try fitting a VNI with ogres and 2 blasters 3 DDA's and you'll see just how much dps you can get..
Deimos , i was thinking more a Nos too help its cap, with a small damage buff too compensate some dps loss.

Notice how there are no amarr or minmatar ships in my list..


Yeah a Vexor would get a pretty sick DPS.

But your not going to have a tank at that point.


And I really don't care that you didn't mention Amarr or Minmatar ships, What was the point of mentioning it in the first place? I never said anything about them.


And again, Why do you insist on Nerfing Cruiser just because CBC's are flimsy? A HAC SHOULD beat a CBC. Even if CBC's where decent.
#DeleteTheWeak
Zavand Crendraven
Rolling Static
Wardec Mechanics
#47 - 2014-12-01 21:56:49 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Cruisers are actually pretty fine where they are. The VNI might do it's job to well, but it's certainly not on the levels how you are putting it.


For the most part, HAC's fill the role just fine. The Deimos probably one of the better ones, and the Eagle being probably the worst. I think the Deimos does just fine as is though, again maybe slightly overpowered. But not enough to lose a turret slot in exchange for a neut. It's an active tanking ship it doesn't need more cap pressure to put on itself.


Rather then calling for a Super-nerf on cruisers. What about a buff to CBC's?


Will agree the the Gila/Worm are OP, though. Gila can sling 1000dps with a bling fit. D=


hardly a supernerf, just toning down some of the very strong dps cruisers too more reasonable dps levels .. try fitting a VNI with ogres and 2 blasters 3 DDA's and you'll see just how much dps you can get..
Deimos , i was thinking more a Nos too help its cap, with a small damage buff too compensate some dps loss.

Notice how there are no amarr or minmatar ships in my list..

what about the cerberus then? can get same dps as deimos and apply it to way better ranges also needs nerf hammer no?
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#48 - 2014-12-01 22:02:29 UTC
Zavand Crendraven wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Cruisers are actually pretty fine where they are. The VNI might do it's job to well, but it's certainly not on the levels how you are putting it.


For the most part, HAC's fill the role just fine. The Deimos probably one of the better ones, and the Eagle being probably the worst. I think the Deimos does just fine as is though, again maybe slightly overpowered. But not enough to lose a turret slot in exchange for a neut. It's an active tanking ship it doesn't need more cap pressure to put on itself.


Rather then calling for a Super-nerf on cruisers. What about a buff to CBC's?


Will agree the the Gila/Worm are OP, though. Gila can sling 1000dps with a bling fit. D=


hardly a supernerf, just toning down some of the very strong dps cruisers too more reasonable dps levels .. try fitting a VNI with ogres and 2 blasters 3 DDA's and you'll see just how much dps you can get..
Deimos , i was thinking more a Nos too help its cap, with a small damage buff too compensate some dps loss.

Notice how there are no amarr or minmatar ships in my list..

what about the cerberus then? can get same dps as deimos and apply it to way better ranges also needs nerf hammer no?


i love the constant massive exaggerations too try and justify a point.. knocking something down a peg to where it belongs is hardly anywhere near a nerf hammer.. but yes cerb is also a little strong with projection and dps.. but even with 700dps it hardly applies it aswell as a deimos and is stuck with kinetic only, although HAM's having the same range as torps isn't right and will be fixed at some point surely..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2014-12-01 22:15:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugia3
Harvey James wrote:
Zavand Crendraven wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Cruisers are actually pretty fine where they are. The VNI might do it's job to well, but it's certainly not on the levels how you are putting it.


For the most part, HAC's fill the role just fine. The Deimos probably one of the better ones, and the Eagle being probably the worst. I think the Deimos does just fine as is though, again maybe slightly overpowered. But not enough to lose a turret slot in exchange for a neut. It's an active tanking ship it doesn't need more cap pressure to put on itself.


Rather then calling for a Super-nerf on cruisers. What about a buff to CBC's?


Will agree the the Gila/Worm are OP, though. Gila can sling 1000dps with a bling fit. D=


hardly a supernerf, just toning down some of the very strong dps cruisers too more reasonable dps levels .. try fitting a VNI with ogres and 2 blasters 3 DDA's and you'll see just how much dps you can get..
Deimos , i was thinking more a Nos too help its cap, with a small damage buff too compensate some dps loss.

Notice how there are no amarr or minmatar ships in my list..

what about the cerberus then? can get same dps as deimos and apply it to way better ranges also needs nerf hammer no?


i love the constant massive exaggerations too try and justify a point.. knocking something down a peg to where it belongs is hardly anywhere near a nerf hammer.. but yes cerb is also a little strong with projection and dps.. but even with 700dps it hardly applies it aswell as a deimos and is stuck with kinetic only, although HAM's having the same range as torps isn't right and will be fixed at some point surely..


Cerb has 0 projection issues. It can hit out to long range doing good dps on smallish targets. If you want to wax frigs, fit rapid lights and you become a mobile no-fly zone for small ships. Meanwhile the Deimos has to be within 5km to do any damage whatsoever.

Pro tip: The Deimos is also restricted to kinetic/thermal damage.

Do you even Eve?

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#50 - 2014-12-02 01:02:29 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Quote:
hardly a supernerf, just toning down some of the very strong dps cruisers too more reasonable dps levels .. try fitting a VNI with ogres and 2 blasters 3 DDA's and you'll see just how much dps you can get..
Deimos , i was thinking more a Nos too help its cap, with a small damage buff too compensate some dps loss.

Notice how there are no amarr or minmatar ships in my list..


Yeah a Vexor would get a pretty sick DPS.

But your not going to have a tank at that point.


And I really don't care that you didn't mention Amarr or Minmatar ships, What was the point of mentioning it in the first place? I never said anything about them.


And again, Why do you insist on Nerfing Cruiser just because CBC's are flimsy? A HAC SHOULD beat a CBC. Even if CBC's where decent.


A well fit brutix vs a well fit diemost will see the brutix win. Both will slug it out at the same range and both get a rep bonus but the brutix gets more firepower and meat to its tank. Then there is the myrm, a damn fine solo BC. CBC are far from helpless like the OP tries to make out.
Viribus
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#51 - 2014-12-02 01:10:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
A well fit brutix vs a well fit diemost will see the brutix win. Both will slug it out at the same range and both get a rep bonus but the brutix gets more firepower and meat to its tank. Then there is the myrm, a damn fine solo BC. CBC are far from helpless like the OP tries to make out.


you're kidding right?

the deimos tanks harder, has T2 resists that directly counter blasters, has way better passive cap, and with the falloff bonus it can just click "keep @ range: 5000m" and out-dps the brutix with the same guns

the utility high on the brutix might be useful if it actually had the grid to use it

there isn't a universe in which the brutix beats the deimos

watch me be a scurb and get owned
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#52 - 2014-12-02 01:19:19 UTC
Viribus wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
A well fit brutix vs a well fit diemost will see the brutix win. Both will slug it out at the same range and both get a rep bonus but the brutix gets more firepower and meat to its tank. Then there is the myrm, a damn fine solo BC. CBC are far from helpless like the OP tries to make out.


you're kidding right?

the deimos tanks harder, has T2 resists that directly counter blasters, has way better passive cap, and with the falloff bonus it can just click "keep @ range: 5000m" and out-dps the brutix with the same guns

the utility high on the brutix might be useful if it actually had the grid to use it

there isn't a universe in which the brutix beats the deimos


You have more than enough grid for a med neut and at 5k the deimos is dictating nothing. Brutix makes use of its firepower advantage and neut to bring down the cap hungry deimos.
Iudicium Vastus
Doomheim
#53 - 2014-12-02 02:27:58 UTC
I love how outside a few pirate hulls, it's Gallente T1 hulls largely on his chopping block.
You do know, high DPS is sorta the thing for Gallente ships right.

[u]Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW?[/u] No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too)
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#54 - 2014-12-02 03:02:01 UTC
Do not like the OP idea. There may be some truth to parts of it but as a whole it seems more like an emotional reaction to ships he has lost fights to, or has trouble with when he fights them.

A couple of questions come to mind here.
What part of the problems that you see are based on skills and not the ships themselves?
What part of the problems you see are based on modules used?

Now to these.

BadAssMcKill wrote:
Yea the rattlesnake sure needs to be worse than it is now

They messed it up pretty bad and these proposed changes would make it about worthless.

Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Ishtar needs a nerf. Not sure if this should be by nerfing the Ishtar itself or changing Sentries. For example i don't understand why Sentries, as a weapon system that is more in the BS range than in Cruiser / BC, have a 125m Signature Resolution.

This one is easy, so let's look at some numbers.
Since Gallente seems to be the hot race here let's use them as our examples

Incursus
Mass = 1,028,000 kg
Volume = 29,500 m3
Signature radius = 42

Garde T2
Mass = 12,000 kg
Volume = 25 m3
Signature radius = 100

The Garde have roughly 1.2% of the mass
The Garde occupy roughly .09% of the volume
Yet there signature radius is 140% larger

Not sure how or why CCP set them this way, my only guess would be that because of their small size they do not have the shielding and damping on their electronic systems so they are more detectable.
Viribus
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#55 - 2014-12-02 03:48:36 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

You have more than enough grid for a med neut and at 5k the deimos is dictating nothing. Brutix makes use of its firepower advantage and neut to bring down the cap hungry deimos.


i'm kind of impressed you can fit so many misconceptions into such a short post

Quote:
You have more than enough grid for a med neut


if you downgrade half your guns to electrons, giving you the same DPS as a Deimos with even more pathetic range

Quote:
at 5k the deimos is dictating nothing


??? Except range? This is baffling. The deimos has like 50% greater base speed than a brutix so if they're both web/scrammed the deimos is absolutely dictating range over an extended fight.

Quote:
firepower advantage


Not if you fit a neut and even if you don't, it's like 10% better than a deimos with drones factored in. Oh and the deimos can tank all of a brutix's guns with a single MAR II, without links or drugs. I guess you forgot about that whole "t2 resists" thing

Quote:
cap hungry deimos


QuestionQuestionQuestionQuestionQuestion

The brutix is even more cap-hungry, since it needs to run its reps harder to tank the same damage, and has to run a 6th gun. The brutix would just shoot itself in the foot with a neut

You really could not be more wrong. Can you please post some examples of how you would fit a Brutix and Deimos because I'm genuinely curious where you get these bizarre ideas from.

watch me be a scurb and get owned
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#56 - 2014-12-02 04:26:51 UTC
Fit an afterburner to the brutix. No more fitting issues, no downgraded weapons, no cap issues and in web and scram range it will be moving faster than the now mwd-less deimos.
Viribus
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#57 - 2014-12-02 04:42:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Viribus
baltec1 wrote:
Fit an afterburner to the brutix. No more fitting issues, no downgraded weapons, no cap issues and in web and scram range it will be moving faster than the now mwd-less deimos.


why can't the deimos also fit an AB? I mean as long as we're in fantasy-land where you don't have to worry about little things like "being able to go faster than 500m/s"

jesus christ I can see why you're having trouble understanding things like "t2 resists" if you think an AB brutix is a good idea

EDIT: I also think it's hilarious that you see a fit with blasters, a neut, two armor reps, and a single cap booster, and conclude that the MWD is the source of its cap problems

i'm literally loling out loud in irl

watch me be a scurb and get owned
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#58 - 2014-12-02 04:43:56 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
*fits up a Brutix and Deimos with similar setups*
*looks at the numbers*

Iono... it's a toss up between the two.

The Brutix has more than double the ehp and can rep slightly more than the Diemos (due to the third rig slot)... the Deimos has a slight DPS and range advantage (thanks to its bonuses).

But then there is that medium neutralizer on the Brutix... even with a cap booster fit the Deimos is going to have trouble while running a repper, guns, and tackle at the same time (the Brutix has less of an issue because it has more than double the raw capacitor power of the Deimos).

The Deimos can pull range, sure... but at that point the Deimos is in half-falloff and doing less overall dps... and the Brutix can counter by loading Null ammo to hit out exactly at 5000m.

The Deimos can also load Null ammo and pull even more range... but only at the cost of losing even more dps and running the risk of losing tackle past 7 to 8,000m

And then we come back to that nasty energy neutralizer on the Brutix which has a range of 12,000m.

tldr: the Deimos is going to have fly VERY smart in order to kill a competent Brutix pilot... because in a straight brawl the Brutix wins through sheer staying power and utility.


Now a RAILGUN-fit Deimos... that is a different story entirely. That will beat a Brutix (albeit, slowly).

How did you Veterans start?
Viribus
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#59 - 2014-12-02 04:45:10 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
*fits up a Brutix and Deimos with similar setups*


*misses the 90% kinetic resists on a deimos*

watch me be a scurb and get owned
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#60 - 2014-12-02 04:48:43 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Deimos has less raw armor. 90% resistance is meaningless if there isn't enough HP to absorb the incoming damage... especially when the capacitor starts running dry.

The Brutix does the exact opposite of this by having lower resistances, but more raw HP and an extra rig slot for extra repping power (2x auxillary nano pump rigs + 1 nanobot accelerator)

How did you Veterans start?