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The case against Thera

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Mag's
Azn Empire
#41 - 2014-12-01 19:22:03 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
P.S. I am aware, BTW that battle zones are typically "instanced" whereas Thera is not. The analogy is not perfect, but IMO the effect of Thera should be the same as a battle zone.
Your analogy doesn't fit at all apart from there being PvP involved.

You should retitle your post: The Case against Vol Arm'OOO being allowed to post.


Lol troll harder. And just because Im bored - you say that analogy doesnt fit but you dont offer any examples or comments. How are they different? Battle grounds and thera have the effect of taking the limited populations of players and concentrating them, so what is the difference as it relates to open world play?
I said your analogy doesn't fit at all, apart from there being PvP involved. This means it doesn't fit at all, apart from there being PvP involved. Blink

One more system in Eve, does not change it's current open world nature. It's a system, in Eve. With different rules from other systems, in Eve.

If only Eve had different systems, with different rules already. Oh, wait. Roll

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2014-12-01 19:59:37 UTC
I didn't read all the replies but the first few pretty much decimate the OP's issue.

First, Thera is not a battleground because there are no limitations on the interaction within the ground.

Second, Thera will not just be neutral. The poster after the OP who said Thera will get instantly locked down. This is partially true. The stations will come under someone's control. The system as a whole will not be locked down. It will still be a good place to go exploring and looking for fights. However, it will not be an artificially regulated neutral zone. One party will control trade there, at the minimum.

I actually think Thera would be better if there were some massive station guns that enforced civility on the undock. I imagine something like that will be implemented in a future update to Thera. At that point it will be closer to a battleground, but it still won't be.

So basically, the OP's complaint is invalid because Thera is not a battleground.
Stephanie Rosefire
Atlas Protectorate and Empire Defense Agency
#43 - 2014-12-01 20:11:39 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I am totally sold on this argument.

Thera is cancelled! Next stop: deleting Syndicate and Providence.



i just wanna say...

OP, get fekkin rekt.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#44 - 2014-12-01 20:16:46 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
If I had more people in my corp i'd go to threa and form an NRDS collective and make it a Freeport. But I don't have the man power to attempt to enforce it.

Honestly, threa has all kinds of potential, but to kill open world pvp? no, I think you need to lay off the drugs man
So if you had the power you'd turn it into Provi? Glad to see you're thinking outside the box.


I would yea, I think it would be neat as a kind of wormhole free port. you can use it to invade anyone but in threa you follow nrds to live there. but oh well.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#45 - 2014-12-01 20:25:15 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
P.S. I am aware, BTW that battle zones are typically "instanced" whereas Thera is not. The analogy is not perfect, but IMO the effect of Thera should be the same as a battle zone.
Your analogy doesn't fit at all apart from there being PvP involved.

You should retitle your post: The Case against Vol Arm'OOO being allowed to post.


Lol troll harder. And just because Im bored - you say that analogy doesnt fit but you dont offer any examples or comments. How are they different? Battle grounds and thera have the effect of taking the limited populations of players and concentrating them, so what is the difference as it relates to open world play?
I said your analogy doesn't fit at all, apart from there being PvP involved. This means it doesn't fit at all, apart from there being PvP involved. Blink

One more system in Eve, does not change it's current open world nature. It's a system, in Eve. With different rules from other systems, in Eve.

If only Eve had different systems, with different rules already. Oh, wait. Roll


Even if your view was correct, i.e. that thera is just another system, it would still hurt open world pvp by its introduction. More systems spread out a thin population making it harder to find pvp in the open world. OFC if thera is successful and reaches a significant concentration of players, well then those players by definition are not elsewhere, thus pvp elsewhere is hurt. Either way open world pvp takes a hit.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#46 - 2014-12-01 20:32:59 UTC
With regards to the draw for players going to Thera I haven't heard anything convincing from anyone which would dissuade players from going based on what the system represents and the opportunities it affords those bold enough to go. There are plenty of reasons to go to Thera. My only concern about this system since we got more details is that there are only 4 stations and I think they may be perma camped. If that ends up being the case, the foundational reasons for going to Thera will crumble. If you can't access the station, it'll be like there are no stations. ...so what's the point, than?

Fortunately I think the fix is relatively simple. They'll need to post some over-sized station guns on the stations, giving most players at least a chance of getting out of the undock area. I don't think anything needs to be said to CCP about this, though. We can just kick back and wait to see what happens. If I'm right than the problems with Thera will become apparent on their own. With CCPs rapid deployment of patches these days, they could fix it in a down time. If Thera doesn't deliver or isn't used, I'm sure CCP will simply make the changes required to get it where it needs to be.

Thera will take care of itself. It'll be molded into something useful, albeit in time. Just my 2 isk...

Ned Thomas wrote:
People who live in Thera should be known as "Therapists".

That is all.

Also: This ^ is the funniest thing ever on the internet. +1

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#47 - 2014-12-01 20:38:34 UTC
Dojos would be EVE arenas, Thera is just another one system where you can get shot by everyone.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#48 - 2014-12-01 20:43:04 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I am totally sold on this argument.

Thera is cancelled! Next stop: deleting Syndicate and Providence.


Greyscale troll, best troll

100/10Lol

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#49 - 2014-12-01 20:49:18 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I am totally sold on this argument.

Thera is cancelled! Next stop: deleting Syndicate and Providence.



Don't forget to disband Red Vs Blue too.
O and faction warfare, we don't need that it will kill eve as we know it.
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
#50 - 2014-12-01 20:50:05 UTC
...or we could just wait and see what actually happens. No? Ok, I'll be over there watching... like a creep.

♪ They'll always be bloodclaws to me ♫
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#51 - 2014-12-01 21:10:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Shizuken
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:


When battle zones are introduced in an open world game, a significant percentage of players will abandon the open world game in favor of obtaining instant pvp. In other words, the battle zones suck the pvp out of the open world areas like a vacuum, killing open world play.

Recently CCP devs have been hell bent on gimmicky systems such as the ESS, fatigue, the MJD, etc. . . Thera is just another of these gimmicky ideas that seem good on the surface but with serious flaws under the surface.


As to the first point, I dont see this as a bad thing. Aside from fully supporting an area where antisocials can blow eachother up without preying upon those who choose not to fight, I dont see how this affects freighter ganking, miner bumping, can flipping etc. Those will still be just as easy. What you should really be wondering is what comes after Thera. If they are making an area in which one can regularly pvp as desired, what then becomes possible with respect to reforming Highsec? It could totally be that CCP is planning to put the screws to the more unseemly and harsher bits of highsec living to make tye game more inviting to new players. There has been a rather concerted push towards that end in other aspects of the game. The antisocials among us can't complain nearly as loudly when there still exists an area with similar highsec services but without the strict rules on civilized behavior. If I were one of said antisocials I might be wondering if in the not too distant future I could be forced out of highsec if I wanted to continue my tear extraction antics.

As to the second point, if "gimmicks," as you put it, are what is required to grow EvE's player base then I fully support it. Frankly, the anything goes policy hasn't been doing it for a while now, as evidenced by the gradual drop or lack of growth in subscriptions.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#52 - 2014-12-01 21:24:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Mag's wrote:
I said your analogy doesn't fit at all, apart from there being PvP involved. This means it doesn't fit at all, apart from there being PvP involved. Blink

One more system in Eve, does not change it's current open world nature. It's a system, in Eve. With different rules from other systems, in Eve.

If only Eve had different systems, with different rules already. Oh, wait. Roll


Even if your view was correct, i.e. that thera is just another system, it would still hurt open world pvp by its introduction. More systems spread out a thin population making it harder to find pvp in the open world. OFC if thera is successful and reaches a significant concentration of players, well then those players by definition are not elsewhere, thus pvp elsewhere is hurt. Either way open world pvp takes a hit.
What great logic you have. So by that same logic Eve's open world nature suffered when CCP introduced new null sec and WH space. Because after all, if players were not there they would be elsewhere. Damn you CCP. Evil
Oh yea, those were dark times and I'm not sure Eve ever recovered.

Nah. I think I'll stick with you simply changing the title, to what I suggested. It now seems far more appropriate. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#53 - 2014-12-01 21:25:59 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I am totally sold on this argument.

Thera is cancelled! Next stop: deleting Syndicate and Providence.
Might I suggest The Forge as well? Or might that be deemed a bit to much to ask perhaps... Blink

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#54 - 2014-12-01 21:48:20 UTC
Ned Thomas wrote:
People who live in Thera should be known as "Therapists".

That is all.


The Rapists. :|

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#55 - 2014-12-01 22:04:48 UTC
Hal Morsh wrote:
Ned Thomas wrote:
People who live in Thera should be known as "Therapists".

That is all.


The Rapists. :|


Such Relevant. Very That.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Ashlar Maidstone
MoonFyre BattleGroup Holdings
#56 - 2014-12-01 22:08:39 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I am totally sold on this argument.

Thera is cancelled! Next stop: deleting Syndicate and Providence.


NOT on my watch will Providence ever be deleted!! Now CCP_Greyscale, you and I are just gonna hafta sit down over a bottle of Quafe Ultra and have a nice little chat, ROFL!!Big smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smile!!!
Ashlar Maidstone
MoonFyre BattleGroup Holdings
#57 - 2014-12-01 22:10:30 UTC
ISD Ezwal wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I am totally sold on this argument.

Thera is cancelled! Next stop: deleting Syndicate and Providence.
Might I suggest The Forge as well? Or might that be deemed a bit to much to ask perhaps... Blink


ISD Ezwal Maybe justa tad too much to ask for, then I won't have anywhere to go!!!! ROFL!!!ShockedShockedShockedShockedShocked
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#58 - 2014-12-01 22:19:15 UTC
Thera will either be largely ignored, or it will be a staging group from which nullsec alliances project frigate/destroyer/HIC gangs to raid their rivals.

I look forward to the first person that loses a Titan because a frigate wormhole to Thera opens and they get caught by a HIC from it.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#59 - 2014-12-01 22:30:32 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I am totally sold on this argument.

Thera is cancelled! Next stop: deleting Syndicate and Providence.


I'm heartened to see you taking feedback to heart for once.
45thtiger 0109
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#60 - 2014-12-01 22:34:08 UTC
ISD Ezwal wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I am totally sold on this argument.

Thera is cancelled! Next stop: deleting Syndicate and Providence.
Might I suggest The Forge as well? Or might that be deemed a bit to much to ask perhaps... Blink


It is never too much to ask CCP they have the power in their hands muhhahahahhaha Big smileBear

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