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[Rhea] The Confessor

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Arla Sarain
#181 - 2014-11-30 15:30:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
AnimeHeretic wrote:

Because you need expanded launchers for combat probes? What are you getting at?
That there is no reason why it should have that ability considering it's strong combat focus and the presence of other ship roles.
AnimeHeretic wrote:
There is no dedicated combat proper. Not a single one . It is either a gimp fit dictor or a cloaky.
You've named 2 just now, although the cloaky is what its meant to be.
AnimeHeretic wrote:
This will be the FIRST ship in eve that can scan something, Warp to it, and hold it while backup lands.
It will also be a ship that can do the job of 2 ships. Scan something, warp to it and kill it.

You don't become a dedicated combat scanning ship because you have reduction to the CPU. You are just given a free ticket to equip it with no difficulties.
And thats on a ship that will have the same range as a slicer, will go just as fast as a slicer, will deal the damage of two slicers, will be able to probe, point and kill.
AnimeHeretic
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#182 - 2014-11-30 16:46:49 UTC  |  Edited by: AnimeHeretic
Arla Sarain wrote:
AnimeHeretic wrote:

Because you need expanded launchers for combat probes? What are you getting at?
That there is no reason why it should have that ability considering it's strong combat focus and the presence of other ship roles.
AnimeHeretic wrote:
There is no dedicated combat proper. Not a single one . It is either a gimp fit dictor or a cloaky.
You've named 2 just now, although the cloaky is what its meant to be.
AnimeHeretic wrote:
This will be the FIRST ship in eve that can scan something, Warp to it, and hold it while backup lands.
It will also be a ship that can do the job of 2 ships. Scan something, warp to it and kill it.

You don't become a dedicated combat scanning ship because you have reduction to the CPU. You are just given a free ticket to equip it with no difficulties.
And thats on a ship that will have the same range as a slicer, will go just as fast as a slicer, will deal the damage of two slicers, will be able to probe, point and kill.


It's far from a free ticket. It will still use 11 cpu. And on a ship with fitting this tight, that's quite a bit. And it still dies if you look at it funny. No drones. Very low ehp. And it's FAR from the speed a slicer can reach. Drones will eat it for breakfast.

I'm sorry you won't be able to kite 300km off a gate and then laugh at everyone chasing you. Now I can land on your interceptor.

(and no, gimped dictors and cov Ops frigs are not dedicated combat probers. They are two ships made for completely different purposes.)
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#183 - 2014-11-30 17:20:05 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I'm surprised it's less than a Cormorant. I figured with the tracking computers that you can't take advantage of on a Cormorant, the Confessor would get more range.



Well, it's without a tracking comp.

the corm DOES have a total of a 100% optimal bonus, and if I'm not mistaken, rails still have a relatively longer optimal range.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#184 - 2014-11-30 19:58:53 UTC
How many of you people who fear the probing potential this ship has are actually probing in a PvP environment?

You will not be able to probe any decent offgrid booster and you will not be able to scan down certain WH signatures.
You will be able to probe down some of the PvE folks, and while you warp to them they will see you on D-Scan.
You will be able to Probe On Grid for Warpins, just like any other ship that has the CPU to fit an Expanded Probe Launcher.

Also, there theoretically are dedicated Combat Probing ships, as the Emergent Localizer is an Electronic Subsystem, and unless you're a Proteus or Loki this is basically a wildcard on Tech 3s.

And THESE things actually have a Scanbonus, have the Tank to hold you down, and theoretically have the DPS to kill you solo. And they can cloak if configured.


And you people are shitting your pants over a Dictor that can't bubble.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#185 - 2014-11-30 22:33:16 UTC
T3's are meant to be versatile. A Probe fitting bonus is part of that versatility. Now if they would give such a bonus to any T1 or T2 ships..... Then we could certainly say it's not more powerful than T2's and is right where it should be.
Combat probing has long been overly restricted and effectively forced alts to be used for it by the gimped fits it creates on non T3's.
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#186 - 2014-11-30 23:02:31 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
T3's are meant to be versatile. A Probe fitting bonus is part of that versatility. Now if they would give such a bonus to any T1 or T2 ships..... Then we could certainly say it's not more powerful than T2's and is right where it should be.
Combat probing has long been overly restricted and effectively forced alts to be used for it by the gimped fits it creates on non T3's.

I really enjoyed using the probes on the test server. I would actually like to see the bonus Applied to more ships or the requirements of the probe launcher reduced.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#187 - 2014-11-30 23:35:32 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I'm surprised it's less than a Cormorant. I figured with the tracking computers that you can't take advantage of on a Cormorant, the Confessor would get more range.



Well, it's without a tracking comp.

the corm DOES have a total of a 100% optimal bonus, and if I'm not mistaken, rails still have a relatively longer optimal range.

Yes but it has a targeting range so short that even a scripted t2 sensor booster isn't enough to get you into the base range of 125mm spike (not 150mm mind you) and it can't even properly fit 150mm without heavy powergrid and CPU bonuses that it doesn't have the slots for. Once you have squeezed in a 125mm fit, there's no room for even the most basic optimal range bonuses. I didn't realize the base range of small focused beam lasers is so much shorter than that of 125mm rails.


I finally downloaded EFT just to take a look (can't seem to get up to date values on the wiki) and here's what I found:
(with max skills)

Small Focused Beam Laser II: 7.5+5
125mm Railgun II: 10+9.4
150mm Railgun II: 14+11

It looks like 150mm rails have DOUBLE the base range of small focused beam lasers!

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#188 - 2014-11-30 23:43:55 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
T3's are meant to be versatile. A Probe fitting bonus is part of that versatility. Now if they would give such a bonus to any T1 or T2 ships..... Then we could certainly say it's not more powerful than T2's and is right where it should be.
Combat probing has long been overly restricted and effectively forced alts to be used for it by the gimped fits it creates on non T3's.

I really enjoyed using the probes on the test server. I would actually like to see the bonus Applied to more ships or the requirements of the probe launcher reduced.

Likewise, it's an inspired choice of bonus for the ship.
and easier to fit combat probes would be a godsend imo.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#189 - 2014-12-01 01:43:41 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
T3's are meant to be versatile. A Probe fitting bonus is part of that versatility. Now if they would give such a bonus to any T1 or T2 ships..... Then we could certainly say it's not more powerful than T2's and is right where it should be.
Combat probing has long been overly restricted and effectively forced alts to be used for it by the gimped fits it creates on non T3's.

I really enjoyed using the probes on the test server. I would actually like to see the bonus Applied to more ships or the requirements of the probe launcher reduced.

Likewise, it's an inspired choice of bonus for the ship.
and easier to fit combat probes would be a godsend imo.

Personally, I'd like to see probes reworked completely, so that you just fire a bunch of the things off in all directions, they give you results on static things and then self-destruct. The current probe scanning system is another one of those tedious game mechanics, where you need to diddle repeatedly with the position, radius and overlap of the probes - push a button, then do it again, and again, until you get a result. Interesting to do a few times, but becomes an annoying chore over the long haul. Obviously, the UI team felt the same way, which is why they added the ability to preconfigure probe patterns, more easily move a group of probes around, etc. - but these are just patches on something that should be replaced.

Now, I'd really like to see the ability to launch a combat probe and have it follow someone's ship, so you can track them down. This would be a lot more fun than using locator agents, and also allow the addition of other new mechanics/modules to mess with probes (use signal boosters to scan for and blow them up, use warp speed rigs to outrun them, use cloaks to give false readings, etc).
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#190 - 2014-12-01 02:32:51 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:

AnimeHeretic wrote:
There is no dedicated combat proper. Not a single one . It is either a gimp fit dictor or a cloaky.
You've named 2 just now, although the cloaky is what its meant to be.
AnimeHeretic wrote:
This will be the FIRST ship in eve that can scan something, Warp to it, and hold it while backup lands.
It will also be a ship that can do the job of 2 ships. Scan something, warp to it and kill it.

.


Just saying, neither of those is dedicated to be an on-grid combat scanner. One has the task of catching and holding supercaps, and the fact that it ongrid probes is just a result of it not bothering with guns since it's not going to be doing **** for damage with all its tank.
The other is not a combat ship. It's at most a support ship that can help its fleet get into position with ongrid fleet warps. It is far better in its role of scanning down lone ships, finding sigs/sites, and hacking and the sort. It's not really a dedicated ongrid prober/warper.

No toes are being stepped on here. The Confesser will never be able to scan down an OGB or any other decently "hidden" ship.



Catherine Laartii wrote:

the corm DOES have a total of a 100% optimal bonus, and if I'm not mistaken, rails still have a relatively longer optimal range.

125% my dear.

Something to remember is that when there are multiple bonuses to the same stat, they compound on each other. 1 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 2.25
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#191 - 2014-12-01 05:09:03 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:

I finally downloaded EFT just to take a look (can't seem to get up to date values on the wiki) and here's what I found:
(with max skills)

Small Focused Beam Laser II: 7.5+5
125mm Railgun II: 10+9.4
150mm Railgun II: 14+11

It looks like 150mm rails have DOUBLE the base range of small focused beam lasers!

Might want to re-check your information.
TQ says that
Small Focused Beam Laser II has a base optimal range of 12+4 Level 5s 15+5
150mm Railgun II has a base optimal range of 14.4+6. Level 5s 18+7.5

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#192 - 2014-12-01 08:18:28 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
T3's are meant to be versatile. A Probe fitting bonus is part of that versatility. Now if they would give such a bonus to any T1 or T2 ships..... Then we could certainly say it's not more powerful than T2's and is right where it should be.
Combat probing has long been overly restricted and effectively forced alts to be used for it by the gimped fits it creates on non T3's.

I really enjoyed using the probes on the test server. I would actually like to see the bonus Applied to more ships or the requirements of the probe launcher reduced.

Likewise, it's an inspired choice of bonus for the ship.
and easier to fit combat probes would be a godsend imo.

Personally, I'd like to see probes reworked completely, so that you just fire a bunch of the things off in all directions, they give you results on static things and then self-destruct. The current probe scanning system is another one of those tedious game mechanics, where you need to diddle repeatedly with the position, radius and overlap of the probes - push a button, then do it again, and again, until you get a result. Interesting to do a few times, but becomes an annoying chore over the long haul. Obviously, the UI team felt the same way, which is why they added the ability to preconfigure probe patterns, more easily move a group of probes around, etc. - but these are just patches on something that should be replaced.

Now, I'd really like to see the ability to launch a combat probe and have it follow someone's ship, so you can track them down. This would be a lot more fun than using locator agents, and also allow the addition of other new mechanics/modules to mess with probes (use signal boosters to scan for and blow them up, use warp speed rigs to outrun them, use cloaks to give false readings, etc).






Soooo... you would like to have a Probe-System that is similar to the old one, on which everyone agreed it was horrible?
I really don't know what kind of problems you have with the actual system, but let me tell you that the UI team didn't feel your way. The patches done to Probing were actually not necessary, they just made holding down shift or alt kinda reverse. What you had earlier when pressing this keys is now prevented by pressing them.


And your proposed stalking probe would be horribly broken and rewarding you for no effort at all.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#193 - 2014-12-01 11:21:56 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


Role Bonus:
95% reduction in Scan Probe Launcher CPU requirements



Please fix this so it reads "95% reduction in combat probe launcher CPU requirements", since that's what we're guessing you mean.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#194 - 2014-12-01 11:25:41 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


Role Bonus:
95% reduction in Scan Probe Launcher CPU requirements



Please fix this so it reads "95% reduction in combat probe launcher CPU requirements", since that's what we're guessing you mean.



Scan Probe Launcher is the module group, to which Expanded Probe Launchers belong, ofc.
So the current wording is pretty good.
Snape Dieboldmotor
Minotaur Congress
#195 - 2014-12-01 14:06:12 UTC
I like the idea of mode switching, but that should be a high slot module consuming about 100 cpu.Idea
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#196 - 2014-12-01 14:37:00 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


Role Bonus:
95% reduction in Scan Probe Launcher CPU requirements



Please fix this so it reads "95% reduction in combat probe launcher CPU requirements", since that's what we're guessing you mean.



Scan Probe Launcher is the module group, to which Expanded Probe Launchers belong, ofc.
So the current wording is pretty good.


The current wording is just fine.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#197 - 2014-12-01 17:02:17 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


Role Bonus:
95% reduction in Scan Probe Launcher CPU requirements



Please fix this so it reads "95% reduction in combat probe launcher CPU requirements", since that's what we're guessing you mean.

Except there is no "combat probe launcher". Only core and expanded both under the probe launcher category.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#198 - 2014-12-01 19:01:34 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
This thing isn't a souped up T1 destroyer, it's a souped up Interdictor. Resist profile + other stats look more like T2 dessie than T1 dessie. Fleets of these things are going to rule everywhere. They will clear out support ships like nobody's business and make fleet warfare very monolithic. Small plexes just got real boring as well.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#199 - 2014-12-01 19:12:51 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
This thing isn't a souped up T1 destroyer, it's a souped up Interdictor. Resist profile + other stats look more like T2 dessie than T1 dessie. Fleets of these things are going to rule everywhere. They will clear out support ships like nobody's business and make fleet warfare very monolithic. Small plexes just got real boring as well.


indeed . it is already OP before release

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Torei Dutalis
IceBox Inc.
Rogue Caldari Union
#200 - 2014-12-01 19:36:50 UTC
The more I fly this ship on sisi the more I am feel like this is the destroyer version of a retribution, with one distinction, in speed mode, this thing can be wicked fast (and it doesn't suffer from 2 midslot syndrome but lets just ignore that). With only one week before this patch goes live I feel like there is little to no chance that we will see any changes in this ship before it goes out to the wider eve population. While I was previously advocating for a tracking bonus on this ship (and well my inner desire for a solopwnmobile still wants it) I think that in an ironic twist, the T3 destroyers are being designed to have poor damage application on small ships on purpose (or this one is anyway). I would still like to see a bonus other than cap usage on the ship as I think Amarr ships having half the combat bonuses of the other races is rather lazy and unbalanced. Perhaps a 5%/level to turret optimal, or maybe even something more interesting like nos/neut range/amount (on the order of the dragoon) would be interesting (just spit balling ideas here really). Just saying it now though, if the next ones come out with real bonuses like damage/tracking or damage/range instead of some faux bonuses like warp speed/drone hp, a shoe will be thrown.