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Ships that need damage nerfs
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Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#21 - 2014-11-30 22:52:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Meyr
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Yazzinra wrote:
Why do you hate Gallente? Also, HACs can't be compared to cruisers or battle cruisers.

That said, giving up a high for a third mid on the catalyst could be interesting, though I can only imagine the gankers reactions.

They'll stop using catalysts and switch to thrashers, which will mean forums tears to nerf thrashers. Gankers will still gank, carebears will still rage, life will go on, just in minmatar ships instead of gallente.


No, because Thrashers cannot be rapidly trained up to do almost 500 DPS with an inexpensive fit - they top out a bit under 400. Combined with the recently announced banning of command broadcasting across multiple clients, a change to the Catalyst's DPS would have ganker's tears flowing like Niagara Falls, and I don't think CCP is quite ready to harvest them is so large of a quantity just yet, even if trading a high for a mid would be a good idea, and bring the hull back into alignment with the description of its stated purpose - catching frigates. (Let's not even mention the travesty that is the Amarr destroyer's slot layout - WTF are you supposed to catch and kill with only one mid-slot?!)
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2014-11-30 22:57:25 UTC
Thrasher is 518@4.5 million cost.

Thread gave me a laugh though, well done McTroll
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#23 - 2014-11-30 23:07:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Meyr
afkalt wrote:
Thrasher is 518@4.5 million cost.

Thread gave me a laugh though, well done McTroll


Fine, then - what is the DPS of a comparably-fit Catalyst, using the same fitting tool? I don't currently have access to EFT, as I'm on an iPad, so I'm going with the numbers I have available using an iPad app.

Put your numbers into context, genius, or keep silent.

How's that for McTroll?
Sigras
Conglomo
#24 - 2014-11-30 23:31:06 UTC
wow, way to compare one statistic while ignoring all the others that are relevant to the ship...

The only T1 cruiser you listed is the vexor, and while it is a great cruiser, it doesnt hold a candle to the myrmidon which does 100 more DPS and has almost twice the HP as the vexor.

Everything else takes quite a bit more time to train into and is quite a bit more expensive.

It's almost as though you were intentionally making an unfair comparison in order to back up your point which has no basis in reality...
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#25 - 2014-11-30 23:57:44 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Tappits wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Stuff


Cool So why do you think these ships need changing.
Why is the Deimos so OP in its correct form?
What is making the Gila So OP by having that extra low slot?
Any of them really....

Just saying They need less DPS without saying why you think they need changes is not a very constructive topic on an Ideas Discussion sub forum.


cruisers doing more dps than combat battlecruisers kind of obsoletes them somewhat

-deimos is perhaps more edge case ... but a nos in exchange for a little dps is no bad thing it has fair amount of dps anyway.
- i feel that cruisers should have lower dps on average then bc's and battleships


Combat battlecruisers are not bc's as such they are just heavy cruisers. Cruisers with more ehp, that's all.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2014-12-01 05:54:43 UTC
Meyr wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Thrasher is 518@4.5 million cost.

Thread gave me a laugh though, well done McTroll


Fine, then - what is the DPS of a comparably-fit Catalyst, using the same fitting tool? I don't currently have access to EFT, as I'm on an iPad, so I'm going with the numbers I have available using an iPad app.

Put your numbers into context, genius, or keep silent.

How's that for McTroll?


I was referring to op as the troll.

Cat does more on paper but thrasher gains selective damage making up for the drop, mostly.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#27 - 2014-12-01 11:03:53 UTC
Meyr wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Yazzinra wrote:
Why do you hate Gallente? Also, HACs can't be compared to cruisers or battle cruisers.

That said, giving up a high for a third mid on the catalyst could be interesting, though I can only imagine the gankers reactions.

They'll stop using catalysts and switch to thrashers, which will mean forums tears to nerf thrashers. Gankers will still gank, carebears will still rage, life will go on, just in minmatar ships instead of gallente.


No, because Thrashers cannot be rapidly trained up to do almost 500 DPS with an inexpensive fit - they top out a bit under 400. Combined with the recently announced banning of command broadcasting across multiple clients, a change to the Catalyst's DPS would have ganker's tears flowing like Niagara Falls, and I don't think CCP is quite ready to harvest them is so large of a quantity just yet, even if trading a high for a mid would be a good idea, and bring the hull back into alignment with the description of its stated purpose - catching frigates. (Let's not even mention the travesty that is the Amarr destroyer's slot layout - WTF are you supposed to catch and kill with only one mid-slot?!)




Actually, the real consequence would be: They get Amarr Dessie, and still skill for blasters. Because the Catalyst doesn't have a damage bonus, and the Coercer has 8 turrets, too.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#28 - 2014-12-01 12:42:32 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
I feel there are too many cruiser hulls that do more dps than combat battlecruisers do .. and some ships that are just OP on damage .. not including T3's as we know they need there nerf cycle first

Gallente
vexor - change drone bonus to medium drones, 50/100 bay
Navy vexor - reduce drone bonus to 7.5% damage
Deimos - remove a turret , buff 5% damage bonus to 7.5%
catalyst - remove a turret and high for a 3rd midslot
ishtar - reduce drone bonus to 7.5% damage and reduce heavy drone tracking/speed bonus to 5% 125/250 bay

Guristas
i feel the 2 superdrone experiment is just OP and should be replaced with the normal 5 drone system and all droneboats have -1 slot for a reason these should follow that too, removing a lowslot each restricts the dps output from getting OP

Worm - switch the missile damage to a role bonus, then use the 10% light drone damage bonus as the gallente bonus per lv
25/50 bay, remove a lowslot

Gila - switch the missile damage to a role bonus, then use the 10% medium drone damage bonus as the gallente bonus per lv
50/100 bay, remove a lowslot

Rattlesnake - switch the missile damage to a role bonus at 25% as 50% is too much and outshines the navy scorp easily, then use the 10% Heavy/Sentry drone damage bonus as the gallente bonus per lv
125/250 bay , remove a lowslot

Serpentis
i still think 90% webs are far to OP and a combination of nerfing web strength to 45% max should fix it.

vigilant and vindicator - reduce damage bonus


Thanks for telling us about your feelings. No go away with your stupid ideas.

Seriously, I went through each of your suggestions, and each seemed somehow worse then the last. Please just stop.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#29 - 2014-12-01 12:52:51 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Meyr wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Thrasher is 518@4.5 million cost.

Thread gave me a laugh though, well done McTroll


Fine, then - what is the DPS of a comparably-fit Catalyst, using the same fitting tool? I don't currently have access to EFT, as I'm on an iPad, so I'm going with the numbers I have available using an iPad app.

Put your numbers into context, genius, or keep silent.

How's that for McTroll?


Perhaps you should learn how to gank before this goes much further.

Harvey James wrote:


cruisers doing more dps than combat battlecruisers kind of obsoletes them somewhat


Brutix puts out more firepower than a diemost.
Viribus
Aurora.
The Initiative.
#30 - 2014-12-01 13:17:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Viribus
baltec1 wrote:

Brutix puts out more firepower than a diemost.


less than one gun more, actually, since the two 5% bonuses the Deimos gets stack with each other, making it a little better than the brutix's 10% bonus. Works out to something like a 15% dps advantage over a Deimos, before drones (which make the difference smaller, obviously)

the deimos also gets more tank, way more mobility, more scan res, more sensor strength, better range, and a way smaller signature

that's pretty much the fundamental problem with BCs in a nutshell; they sacrifice way too much for a small advantage in DPS. Pretty much every cruiser hull in the game got buffed while the two most viable BCs got nerfed into the ground

thanks rise

watch me be a scurb and get owned
Shivanthar
#31 - 2014-12-01 15:04:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Shivanthar
Yesterday, I saw a sacrilege flashing red in sortet, surely waiting for a fair fight.
Gunned up my dusty stabber fleet issue and went out.
When I was undocking, I told myself "I am going to loose this ship"
After some brawling I lost. I enjoyed the fight.
I returned to station.
I continued to do my stuff.
Should sacrilege be nerfed? No. Is it powerful? It should be. Do I care? No.
I wanted to fight, I fought and lost and it was done.

Next time I am going to be more careful about overheating stuff. Learned from mistakes? Yes.
This should be the attitude of any pilot floating in space, and game recommends it this way.
No hard feelings against OP, but if they seem overpowered, I assume ccp already knows about it.

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#32 - 2014-12-01 15:09:54 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
I feel there are too many cruiser hulls that do more dps than combat battlecruisers do .. and some ships that are just OP on damage .. not including T3's as we know they need there nerf cycle first

Hahahahahahahahahaha.

Would you like some whine with your cheese?
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#33 - 2014-12-01 16:52:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Meyr wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Thrasher is 518@4.5 million cost.

Thread gave me a laugh though, well done McTroll


Fine, then - what is the DPS of a comparably-fit Catalyst, using the same fitting tool? I don't currently have access to EFT, as I'm on an iPad, so I'm going with the numbers I have available using an iPad app.

Put your numbers into context, genius, or keep silent.

How's that for McTroll?


Perhaps you should learn how to gank before this goes much further.

Harvey James wrote:


cruisers doing more dps than combat battlecruisers kind of obsoletes them somewhat


Brutix puts out more firepower than a diemost.


i was expecting someone too point that out .. but i was generalising ofc. main point being why would you fly a bc when you can fly a cruiser that can do much the same thing but with the low sig, mobility, warp speed advantage..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#34 - 2014-12-01 17:01:26 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
I feel there are too many cruiser hulls that do more dps than combat battlecruisers do .. and some ships that are just OP on damage .. not including T3's as we know they need there nerf cycle first

Gallente
vexor - change drone bonus to medium drones, 50/100 bay
Navy vexor - reduce drone bonus to 7.5% damage
Deimos - remove a turret , buff 5% damage bonus to 7.5%
catalyst - remove a turret and high for a 3rd midslot
ishtar - reduce drone bonus to 7.5% damage and reduce heavy drone tracking/speed bonus to 5% 125/250 bay

Guristas
i feel the 2 superdrone experiment is just OP and should be replaced with the normal 5 drone system and all droneboats have -1 slot for a reason these should follow that too, removing a lowslot each restricts the dps output from getting OP

Worm - switch the missile damage to a role bonus, then use the 10% light drone damage bonus as the gallente bonus per lv
25/50 bay, remove a lowslot

Gila - switch the missile damage to a role bonus, then use the 10% medium drone damage bonus as the gallente bonus per lv
50/100 bay, remove a lowslot

Rattlesnake - switch the missile damage to a role bonus at 25% as 50% is too much and outshines the navy scorp easily, then use the 10% Heavy/Sentry drone damage bonus as the gallente bonus per lv
125/250 bay , remove a lowslot

Serpentis
i still think 90% webs are far to OP and a combination of nerfing web strength to 45% max should fix it.

vigilant and vindicator - reduce damage bonus




Vexor is fine as it is.
Navy Vexor is fine as it is.
Deimos is currently powerful, but imo in a good spot.
Catalyst is fine as it is.
Ishtar needs a nerf. Not sure if this should be by nerfing the Ishtar itself or changing Sentries. For example i don't understand why Sentries, as a weapon system that is more in the BS range than in Cruiser / BC, have a 125m Signature Resolution.


Worm was pretty meh before patch, and you want it changed back to underwhelming performance?
Same for the Gila and Rattler?


Also, if the Gila can get 900ish DPS and that is op, then why is there no proposed nerf to the Vigilant?



there is .. the last line .. i just haven't put any specific amount,
NVI - is better than most bc's .. thus obsoletes them entirely which is obviously a bad thing .. 900 dps fits and cruiser hull advantages..
Sentries - sig res is 400, a slight range nerf is probably right , but since they are for battleships they can't be nerfed too much or that won't be fair on the domi/other battleships, so a damage nerf to non battleship hulls make more sense

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#35 - 2014-12-01 17:03:42 UTC
Viribus wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Brutix puts out more firepower than a diemost.


less than one gun more, actually, since the two 5% bonuses the Deimos gets stack with each other, making it a little better than the brutix's 10% bonus. Works out to something like a 15% dps advantage over a Deimos, before drones (which make the difference smaller, obviously)

the deimos also gets more tank, way more mobility, more scan res, more sensor strength, better range, and a way smaller signature

that's pretty much the fundamental problem with BCs in a nutshell; they sacrifice way too much for a small advantage in DPS. Pretty much every cruiser hull in the game got buffed while the two most viable BCs got nerfed into the ground

thanks rise


rise has definitely overbuffed most things he has touched , yet the poor eagle is still rubbish Sad

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#36 - 2014-12-01 17:07:05 UTC
I do not agree with the OP and I hope that CCP does not listen to him, because his ideas concerning ship balance are knee jerk and half-baked.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#37 - 2014-12-01 17:15:16 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
I do not agree with the OP and I hope that CCP does not listen to him, because his ideas concerning ship balance are knee jerk and half-baked.


your post is knee jerk and half baked Lol

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#38 - 2014-12-01 17:19:17 UTC
Yazzinra wrote:
Why do you hate Gallente? Also, HACs can't be compared to cruisers or battle cruisers.

That said, giving up a high for a third mid on the catalyst could be interesting, though I can only imagine the gankers reactions.


To be fair, Gallente are disgustingly OP right now. Vexor / Navy Vexor / Ishtar need to be nerfed hard. The Deimos is borderline...

Catalysts could use a bit less DPS, I mean you can get the thing to nearly 650.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#39 - 2014-12-01 17:21:11 UTC
Shivanthar wrote:
Yesterday, I saw a sacrilege flashing red in sortet, surely waiting for a fair fight.
Gunned up my dusty stabber fleet issue and went out.
When I was undocking, I told myself "I am going to loose this ship"
After some brawling I lost. I enjoyed the fight.
I returned to station.
I continued to do my stuff.
Should sacrilege be nerfed? No. Is it powerful? It should be. Do I care? No.
I wanted to fight, I fought and lost and it was done.

Next time I am going to be more careful about overheating stuff. Learned from mistakes? Yes.
This should be the attitude of any pilot floating in space, and game recommends it this way.
No hard feelings against OP, but if they seem overpowered, I assume ccp already knows about it.



Your entire post is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

Create a larger straw man next time.
Sigras
Conglomo
#40 - 2014-12-01 17:30:53 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Brutix puts out more firepower than a diemost.

i was expecting someone too point that out .. but i was generalising ofc. main point being why would you fly a bc when you can fly a cruiser that can do much the same thing but with the low sig, mobility, warp speed advantage..

lets see... cost, training time, survivability, just to name a few.