These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

First post First post First post
Author
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1961 - 2014-11-30 11:28:54 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Wall of text


You haven't presented an argument against my arguments, all you've done is attempted to dismiss them with more non sequiturs.

Out of all you wrote, there is nothing that hasn't already been addressed. You only made one point that I wish to address again with some simpler wording for the simpler minded. No, there is nothing in EVE that requires one player to have two accounts. There is a lot of stuff in EVE that encourages social interaction, however. Maybe some of you just need to get better at making friends.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1962 - 2014-11-30 11:32:21 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
...if ISBoxer and key broadcasting were a solution to a need, that need is still there.


The fact that there are plenty of players getting along just fine without it is more indicative of broadcasting being entirely optional, and therefore there is no need at all but that which some players believe there is. Belief of need is not, however, indicative of any need at all. Some people think they need a certain brand of clothing in order to survive, for example. I couldn't tell you how many times I've heard the phrase, "I couldn't live without my iPhone".

correct, but the hamster fell off the wheel there, at the start of my post, you should go back for it and start over.


I do get what you're trying to say, but once again, if there are players finding solutions to this 'need' without broadcasting, then the need still being there is irrelevant to the removal of one solution.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1963 - 2014-11-30 11:32:39 UTC
I play EVE because I don't have friends. jk. would you believe me if i told you all of my irl friends play EVE.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1964 - 2014-11-30 11:35:03 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
I play EVE because I don't have friends. jk. would you believe me if i told you all of my irl friends play EVE.


Actually, yes I would because apart from a girl I've been seeing and my family, all my friends exist only in EVE. I actually don't like people IRL and wouldn't like to meet any of them.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1965 - 2014-11-30 11:40:47 UTC
as in, the dudes i went to school with as an adolescent play EVE and they got me into it, and everyone else I know.

Remiel Pollard wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
...if ISBoxer and key broadcasting were a solution to a need, that need is still there.


The fact that there are plenty of players getting along just fine without it is more indicative of broadcasting being entirely optional, and therefore there is no need at all but that which some players believe there is. Belief of need is not, however, indicative of any need at all. Some people think they need a certain brand of clothing in order to survive, for example. I couldn't tell you how many times I've heard the phrase, "I couldn't live without my iPhone".

correct, but the hamster fell off the wheel there, at the start of my post, you should go back for it and start over.


I do get what you're trying to say, but once again, if there are players finding solutions to this 'need' without broadcasting, then the need still being there is irrelevant to the removal of one solution.

I'm just glad that you used the words "removal of one solution." because that's the point of the post. unlike those other optional cases, like siggy, EVEmon, EFT... this option has been removed. I'm basically in agreement with you, I didn't say it was vital to gameplay. Some players have just decided this option was a solution to something that made the game worthwhile. Beyond that, we're getting into players' personal gameplay needs, so let's just assume everyone's needs are valid. For example, the only reason I can play this game and be entertained is because a face full of clients makes my ADD happy. I'm also half Korean, and we all know what that means. Turbo nerd.

some players need certain types of gameplay to feel satisfied playing a game, Remiel. This is -all- optional. I don't key broadcast, but I can appreciate that some people are that way.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1966 - 2014-11-30 11:47:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Rain6637 wrote:
...feel satisfied playing a game...


Some people don't feel satisfied unless they're winning at any cost, including the use of hacks and aimbots and the like. Do we really need to cater to them just for the sake of not losing customers?

In the time I've played EVE, I can't think of a change that is objectively more balancing for the game than this one.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1967 - 2014-11-30 11:58:09 UTC
This isn't just any game like those FPS examples where aimbots are a problem.

EVE... the game we're talking about, -enables- players to pay for multiple accounts, and -promotes- the sale of multiple accounts to players. The plug is being pulled on the most efficient method of controlling those multiple accounts. The maker of this game is now falling back on what is basically a "no refunds, product sold as-is" policy.

That is bogus because characters accumulate SP, which represents a player investment. In a game, sure, but from a business standpoint, that's a poor way to treat customers.

Am I wrong?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#1968 - 2014-11-30 13:13:33 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I do get what you're trying to say, but once again, if there are players finding solutions to this 'need' without broadcasting, then the need still being there is irrelevant to the removal of one solution.
The problem is this isn't a solution to a problem. The problem still exists. Several gamplay components are crap and unbalanced. Broadcasting is imply being used as a scapegoat because the lower IQ crowd will act exactly as they have and cheer as if this will drastically change the game when the reality is the impact will be minimal.

Remiel Pollard wrote:
In the time I've played EVE, I can't think of a change that is objectively more balancing for the game than this one.
Then you are incredibly special. Nothing will be balanced by this change. Basically the biggest multiboxers will have to scale down and the rest will add a few clicks. The industry changes are just one recent change which actually balanced out part of the game. Input broadcasting was just iscing on the cake. The other features of software like isboxer - like Video FX, allowing you to cut out sections of eve windows and drop them onto a canvas - will still allow multiboxers to operate on a pretty large scale. This whole change is a pointless change to appease idiots at the cost of some subs from the largest mutliboxers.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1969 - 2014-11-30 13:16:55 UTC
Break this down with me.

CCP has decided to finally drop the hammer on this plague of flagrant multiboxing, and predictably, a number of players will leave the game as a direct result. Why would CCP suddenly be willing to do this.

Because the sudden rush of new players in response to what was basically a bait video of gameplay.

Which implies what. We don't need vets anymore. The majority of players have a limited lifespan of x years in EVE, and now we have a fresh sample. Maybe this batch of newbs won't eventually get addicted to ISBoxer. Those ugly outliers who took our multiple account mechanic too far, cut them loose.

So okay, let's look past January 1. Assume all key broadcast addicts are gone.

Apparently a lot of people have their minds set on chasing away anyone with more than one account in space. If enough of those types make up the player base, then what. "Sorry, multiboxing isn't popular enough to justify the detriment to RP and the quality of gameplay desired by the typical EVE player."

Which is who. you? me?

I wouldn't have such a problem with that if the cash that came in from all those bloated subscription numbers went to developing things that I like. And I think I've been fairly patient, and easy to please. Space barbie easy. Two days before this announcement I bought a six pack of PLEX because it was kind of high and I was happy with CCP and had hope. I bought more vanity items with the ISK. all of it. So right now I feel pretty stupid, and I am one -pissed off- nerd.

I hope PLEX goes down and people have to work for their ISK again, too, broski. New players means more P2W officer drake types, and I plan to gank my ISK for PLEX, so that's all good for me. It's open season on WoW migrants... fresh off the boat!

Have you looked at mah skillsheetz? I got me sum Catalysts.. sum Nagas, dem Tornados, n' Taloss... whateva. N0 T3aR5 H3r3, Brrrah though I better get straight up PLEX in cargo every once in a while.

ƶƵƶƵƶ420ƶƵƶƵƶ 4 lyf3 add gold teef to NES CCP i wanna by me a greel #P@yingCust0m3rPLEX=$$$
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1970 - 2014-11-30 13:45:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
just playin'

CCP is probably just getting ready to have a rock solid case for denying petitions from crying gankees.

quote from the mmogames.com Best MMO of 2014 voting for the next 30 days. vote, y'all.

Quote:
EVE is one of the only MMOs that has meaningful PVP with real consequences. The basis of the game is arguably PVP.

the ganking part though, how could I not, when CCP is keepin it real. (U the real MVP CCP)

will I ever be able to change my race and gender? Brutor maybe. I like the RP.
The Ironfist
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1971 - 2014-11-30 14:18:49 UTC
Hello CCP,

I'm using ISboxer to ice Mine among other things such as for window management in PVP. To stay conform with the new rules regarding Multiboxing software I updated my profile. I would like to know if the following is within the rules because my understanding is that it is but I want to be sure.

http://i.imgur.com/l2LccFu.png

What I use this for and what this does is simple. Every time I click the assigned key isboxer will synchronize the mouse courser position on the next client with the main clients then click control and then issue a left mouse click. Every time I click the assigned key it will do this first for client 1->2->3->4->5->end->1->.. when it reaches the last client it will reset and start again from client 1. I use this to lock up targets from the broadcast history window. Is that legit? Given that I'm doing one action to one client at a time?

I also have a round-robin key for opening the ore hold on an active ship and every time I click it it opens the ore hold on one client same order as above 1->2->3->4->5->end->1->

My understanding is that I'm interacting with one client at a time and not sending commands to multiple clients with 1 action so it should be fine?
FunGu Arsten
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#1972 - 2014-11-30 14:43:23 UTC
The Ironfist wrote:
Hello CCP,

I'm using ISboxer to ice Mine among other things such as for window management in PVP. To stay conform with the new rules regarding Multiboxing software I updated my profile. I would like to know if the following is within the rules because my understanding is that it is but I want to be sure.

http://i.imgur.com/l2LccFu.png

What I use this for and what this does is simple. Every time I click the assigned key isboxer will synchronize the mouse courser position on the next client with the main clients then click control and then issue a left mouse click. Every time I click the assigned key it will do this first for client 1->2->3->4->5->end->1->.. when it reaches the last client it will reset and start again from client 1. I use this to lock up targets from the broadcast history window. Is that legit? Given that I'm doing one action to one client at a time?

I also have a round-robin key for opening the ore hold on an active ship and every time I click it it opens the ore hold on one client same order as above 1->2->3->4->5->end->1->

My understanding is that I'm interacting with one client at a time and not sending commands to multiple clients with 1 action so it should be fine?


as a multiboxer isboxer.. no
dont
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1973 - 2014-11-30 15:01:04 UTC
They will cry and make their pleas
Rain ISBox ganked me!
And CCP's reply will be
Our records show that Rain
Shotted you manually.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1974 - 2014-11-30 15:09:13 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
They will cry and make their pleas
Rain ISBox ganked me!
And CCP's reply will be
Our records show that Rain
Shotted you manually.


For the record, I've never petitioned a multiboxer. As I've stated previously, I've always learned to adapt to the challenges presented to me by both the game itself and other players. I've only ever petitioned one lost ship, which was returned to me, and unrelated to multiboxing (it was a Succubus which I lost due to DDOS'ing), and all other petitions have been bug reports, asking if such-and-such activity and/or possible exploit is allowed, or reporting extreme cases of abuse and/or harassment.

And look, if this rule change wasn't happening, I'd continue on my way same as before. But it is happening, and I can't say I don't agree with it. I've never lost a ship to this, but if 160 tornado guns can be fired with one button push, by one player who can't be arsed making friends to fly 19 tornados with him in the multiplayer game, then I do have a problem with that. Whether or not I can adapt to it is unrelated to whether or not I like it.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#1975 - 2014-11-30 15:11:05 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Jean Luc Lemmont wrote:
I'm just tired of the whining masses that react like preschoolers when CCP does something they don't like, toss their toys out of the pram on the forums, but when the rubber meets the road they just keep on doing what they were doing while sulking in the corner and muttering under their breath.
Wait, so you're tired of people who's gameplay styles have been effectively removed complaining, yet the fact that this whole change is because a bunch of carebears have been crying because they don't understand how isboxer works, that's OK?


I'm guessing you missed the part in parenthesis where I mentioned both sides were equally guilty.

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.

kraken11 jensen
ROOKS AND KRAKENS
#1976 - 2014-11-30 15:33:35 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
They will cry and make their pleas
Rain ISBox ganked me!
And CCP's reply will be
Our records show that Rain
Shotted you manually.


For the record, I've never petitioned a multiboxer. As I've stated previously, I've always learned to adapt to the challenges presented to me by both the game itself and other players. I've only ever petitioned one lost ship, which was returned to me, and unrelated to multiboxing (it was a Succubus which I lost due to DDOS'ing), and all other petitions have been bug reports, asking if such-and-such activity and/or possible exploit is allowed, or reporting extreme cases of abuse and/or harassment.

And look, if this rule change wasn't happening, I'd continue on my way same as before. But it is happening, and I can't say I don't agree with it. I've never lost a ship to this, but if 160 tornado guns can be fired with one button push, by one player who can't be arsed making friends to fly 19 tornados with him in the multiplayer game, then I do have a problem with that. Whether or not I can adapt to it is unrelated to whether or not I like it.



160 tornado(s) if gunners, then it is 19x8= 152. Or if you mean 160 tornados With would be highly unlikely. well, idk. Anyway. I respect that you don't Petition due to multiboxers ( if you lost and ship etc ) and that DDOS was understandable that you sent in an petition (like, who would not) and, well. o.o (still, it would've been possible to do it tho) (i suppose) idk what else to say. Idk what else to say. o.o
Miomeifeng Alduin
Lithonauts Inc.
#1977 - 2014-11-30 15:37:24 UTC
The Ironfist wrote:
Hello CCP,

I'm using ISboxer to ice Mine among other things such as for window management in PVP. To stay conform with the new rules regarding Multiboxing software I updated my profile. I would like to know if the following is within the rules because my understanding is that it is but I want to be sure.

http://i.imgur.com/l2LccFu.png

What I use this for and what this does is simple. Every time I click the assigned key isboxer will synchronize the mouse courser position on the next client with the main clients then click control and then issue a left mouse click. Every time I click the assigned key it will do this first for client 1->2->3->4->5->end->1->.. when it reaches the last client it will reset and start again from client 1. I use this to lock up targets from the broadcast history window. Is that legit? Given that I'm doing one action to one client at a time?

I also have a round-robin key for opening the ore hold on an active ship and every time I click it it opens the ore hold on one client same order as above 1->2->3->4->5->end->1->

My understanding is that I'm interacting with one client at a time and not sending commands to multiple clients with 1 action so it should be fine?


You dont understand the concept behind: 1 click = 1 action. and you need to physically click? hell, they way you describe it, it actually does sound a lot like botting which you're doing. (i know isboxer is not a botting program, but this guy sure makes it sound like one)
Commentus Nolen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1978 - 2014-11-30 15:40:25 UTC
I tried to find this program "Video FX" and all I could find was a video editing program. Is Video FX the correct name?
kraken11 jensen
ROOKS AND KRAKENS
#1979 - 2014-11-30 15:48:10 UTC
Commentus Nolen wrote:
I tried to find this program "Video FX" and all I could find was a video editing program. Is Video FX the correct name?


It's something that you can use With IsBoxer/Innerspace (they dont work without eachother) (i dont know how to explain it, idk too mutch about it) :)
Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
#1980 - 2014-11-30 15:49:22 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:

Try it after January 15 next year and if CCP have a problem with it, they will let you know.


See, and that's the only horse I have in this race personally.

Given the track record CCP has with being communicative with their clients, we'll find many customers flabbergasted when they discover - by logging in - they have been banned.

Instead of arguing about macros/input broadcasting semantics, I'd like to suggest you trolls pull together and fight to be treated as the customers you want to be instead of the scrubs (you areShocked) CCP see you as.

D.

Bear


The ISBoxer guy is going to fix it so that input broadcasting will be turned off by default on 1 January. It sounded like he is going to make everyone download a new version of ISBoxer.

On CCP's part, expect to have to agree to a new EULA after downtime on 1 January. Hopefully there will be a dev blog explaining all the changes.

The Nosy Gamer - CCP Random: "hehe, falls under the category: nice try, but no. ;)"