Ships & Modules

OP, i dont know what the **** youre smoking haha

amarr cruisers are not in a bad place at all.

lets look at the omen.

the omen, as with many amarr ships, has a MASSIVE capacitor. this is due to the inherent nature of amarr. the use of energy turrets and to a lesser extent, neutralizers. this means that the ships enjoy a larger cap. you can compare this with minmatar/caldari cruisers, which have an infuriatingly, relatively small capacitor. this is because projectiles/missiles need 0 cap to operate.

in line with many amarr trends, the omen has a 115 meter sig radius. this means it has one of the smallest initial sig radius' of any cruiser.. the only cruiser, to the extent of my knowledge, with a smaller sig is the navy omen.. which is still an omen ha.

another great fact about this ship, is it is one of the faster cruisers if you intend to kite. it has more lows than a thorax, which means you can fit a nano fiber without sacrificing much of anything,,, cuz you have more lows,, and is therefore faster (you only need an mwd + cap booster + longpoint to kite in a cruiser. therefore the thoraxes 4th mid is actually somewhat wasted, unless you like having defensive webs, but if the enemy is that close to you, youre probably dead anyway so.. lol). unless you intend to kite without a nano. which is stupid. but the only other cruiser that is faster than the omen is the stabber.

as far as damage goes, the omen has a 40 drone bay and band width. this is smaller than ONLY the vexor and thorax. which means it is both more flexible in what you want to do and has more dps than a maller by that fact alone.

the ship also gets a rof bonus instead of a dmg bonus. the differences are small, but you actually get a LARGER dps bonus with a rof bonus than a straight dmg bonus

whats more to dps, is the sheer damage projection. pulses have the worst tracking, but t2 medium focused pulses, with sharpshooter 5 and scorch, get a 20km optimal. this means you can always engage kiters (unless they have a td) regardless if you yourself are kiting or brawling. even if you are brawling against say a thorax, you load conflag and he loads void. what kinda range are you guys going to get? he will have, what, a 2.5km optimal? and youll have almost a 7km optimal? this means you can shoot the guy at such a range with perfect* dps and he can barely hit you. meaning he will need to load either faction ammo or null. while youre still blasting away through his reload and his subsequent turret cycles with t2 dps ammo.

also, i noticed you seeming to discard the energy turret cap use bonus as it being irrelevant. do you have any idea how cap hungry ships with energy turrets are without that bonus???

those are just the main things that stand out to me. i am sure i can bring up more. try actually flying the ships from time to time instead of whining on the forums.

Nobody uses bait Mallers for this very reason, obvious bait is obvious. In fact, for small gang work, I find it best to lightly tank Mallers (800 plate) and go for triple heat sinks and the biggest guns and push out as much dps as possible since you're pretty much always the last thing people will shoot.

The Maller is an outstanding cruiser for armor brawling gangs, thanks to its tank and projection with scorch. If it had an extra mid there would be no reason to ever use anything else for this purpose. The Omen is pretty 'meh' imo, but as a reasonably fast and cheap armor kiting cruiser it does the job just fine. Neither one is great for solo roaming, but not every ship excels at everything.

The Amarr faction cruisers though, are awesome. Everyone already knows how amazing the Omen Navy is. The Aug Navy is a better version of a Maller when fit as a brawler, and it can be fit as a kiting ship that plays like a better Omen that has two medium neuts.

That's not even getting into the T2 cruisers. In our HAC gangs, the only reason you bring something other than a Sacrilege is if you can't fly one.

i am going to number your entries so i dont have to type them out, just to keep everything straight

1.) i dont see how its my claim to fame, its just the differences between weapon systems that you can abuse

2.) how would it be impossible? fit an ab + web + scram and poof, you now have range dictation, as most cruisers are mwd fit

3.) do you know the difference between optimal and falloff? seriously. not trying to be a ****. an omen gets a 20km optimal and .08 tracking with meh skills. rail rax gets a debatable optimal since it depends on which ammo you use (but it is most likely less than 20km) but with MAX skills gets just short of .04 tracking. im sure you can see which weapon system has better application.

4.) uhm, they are very useful to have, but they arent needed. i dont think i said they werent useful man

5.) it aint broke. lol. and i would have no reason to thank you for something ccp would change if they followed that course of action. which i highly doubt they will. and hope they wont either.

Amarr t1 cruisers aside from the arbitrator are not great for solo. This is not the same as saying that they are gimped.

Can you explain why my Executioner has the same mid slots as my Omen Shelom ? Why aren't the frigate class ships gimped in the same way the cruisers are ?

Crucifier has the same amount of mid slots as Arbitrator ?

How does this make sense in any way ?

If the cruisers are gimped for mid slots ( yet supposedly work fine ) you would think the frigates would work in the same way. This is not the case.

Oh wait, there IS one frigate that is similarly gimped and it's the Punisher - and we all know how crap the Punisher is. It's a decent ship, it can fit a huge tank for a frigate, but I think the overwhelming majority would agree that the ship sucks for pvp most of the time, mainly because it is gimped with two mid slots and it has no effective way to counter act this gimpage. It can work under the right circumstances, but it is by far the worse frigate than the Executioner, Tormentor, or even the Crucifier.

Shelom, you must be capable of simple math

Omen - 3 mid slots. Thorax - 4 mid slots. That means it is literally impossible to control range against a Thorax within scram range. Unless, like you said, you fit a web and afterburner and just, I guess pray to god that the Thorax isn't doing the same ?

That's some real combat effectiveness.

Yeah it is. If you can only use a ship for fleets ( and a Tech 1 freaking cruiser at that ) then that means there is something wrong.

the point is regarding range control FFS

I would try to help you understand, but your belligerence is irritating, so im inclined to let you flail. Have fun.

Each ship has their own strength and weaknesses that often match their "racial design". As for amarr ships their weakness is often a low amount of mids. But it is also their strength, as it means they got more lowslots which means more tank + dps for brawling ships or more dps/range/speed for kiting ships. The Slicer is one of the strongest frigs in game for solo pvp and so is the navy omen, yet both of them have the least amount of midslots for their class of ships.

Not all ships are meant to be 1v1 ships as it is impossible to balance them that way, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are useless at it. While the low amount of mids mean that they got lacking range control against other armour cruisers with more mids, it doesn't necessarily mean you are going to lose the brawl. Unlike frigates where range control is the name of the game and far from every ships can project damage to full scram range, there are only a few cruisers that struggle to do that. And that is mostly just blasterboats with low caliber guns. Amarr cruisers on the other hand can easily push out beyond scram range even without any other mods to increase their range. And they can even threaten targets in point range. Their main weakness with their lower range control is if the target gets under the guns. But that is a built in weakness with lasers. When it comes to kiting, then the lack of defense web can be really annoying. But in return they got great tracking with scorch compared to rails and arties while still having similar, or close, range and dps.

As for utility highslots, then there are actually few t1 cruisers that can threaten you with neuts. The Stabber and Rupture both suffers from low dps in order to get their utility highs and if they have medium neuts they often lack tank or dps or both. But even if you come across one of them, you have essentially met your counter, which brings us back to the strength and weaknesses. As for the neuting vexor, then they have to give up some dps to fit neuts, but with or without neuts they are still the strongest brawling cruiser in the game. In my opinion, CCP made a huge mistake when they purged utility highs from amarr ships. The maller should have kept the utility high in one way or another. After all, capacitor warfare is one of the traits of amarr ships.

The amarr cruisers aren't meant to be the best solo cruisers. They are meant to shine in fleet scenarios, but the main issue here is not their performance, but the fact that medium rails make Thoraxs and Moas really good for that as well.