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time to "fix" the ishtar
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Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#21 - 2014-11-28 11:05:33 UTC
Just make drone controls use like 1000grid. Now an ishtars max range is inside of 60km which allows for other things to actually take effect. Also damps lower drone control range should become a thing too.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-11-28 11:07:11 UTC
Every time this comes up, someone proposes just killing the drones, as if they believe it is a viable solution or something. It's rather mind boggling.

What if we simply lost the ability to delegate sentries? The ishtar wouldn't lose any pve usefulness, or in small gangs. In fleets, while it wouldnt take any power away from the ishtar, it would force them to actually target and attack the ships being called primary, instead of assigning them to designated drone bunnies, who they can then hit with remote sensor boosts or ECCM.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#23 - 2014-11-28 13:48:21 UTC
Presidente Gallente wrote:
Who in an Ishtar killed your main and what did you lose?


Not at all i currently fly ishtars as main fleet. Thing is ishtar is accounting for 8% of all pvp dps. Just like the drake or cane who at thier time were op they were nerfed and new doctrines took over. So too should this happen to tge drake. Its nothing personal and i am not petty to say this ship killed me now nerf.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#24 - 2014-11-28 13:49:23 UTC
Leonard Nimoy II wrote:
Presidente Gallente wrote:
Who in an Ishtar killed your main and what did you lose?


^^ This.

EDIT: Also - why would Ishtar get a gun bonus? It's a drone boat. Mine hardly even has guns on it.


Same reason eos has hybrid bonus so it encourage use of tge turret high slots.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#25 - 2014-11-28 14:30:39 UTC
Remove the drone durability bonus.

Ishtar has a huge drone bay anyway. It doesnt need a durability bonus plus a damn near never ending supply of drones thanks to the huge dronebay.

Durability bonus should really only exist for small and medium drones. This would make popping ishtar drones a bit more viable as a counter.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Shivanthar
#26 - 2014-11-28 14:44:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Shivanthar
Let ishtars do their damage with current state.

- Change heavy drone bonus to medium drone bonus.

- Reduce their dronebay/bandwith to 100/50 so they are basically limited to medium drones, which is equal size of the ship (medium fitting ship/medium drones). Also ishtar pilots will start watching their drones since there will be only 2 set of med drones at most.

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-11-28 15:42:40 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
my suggestion to fix the ishtar is to remove the sentry optial range/tracking bonus all together and replace it with a fall off bonus to medium hybrid turrets...

Let's take a look:

Cerberus:
Light, Heavy, Heavy Assault Missile
Light, Heavy, Heavy Assault Missile
Light, Heavy, Heavy Assault Missile
Light, Heavy, Heavy Assault Missile

Muninn:
Medium Projectile Turret
Medium Projectile Turret
Medium Projectile Turret
Medium Projectile Turret

Zealot:
Medium Energy Turret
Medium Energy Turret
Medium Energy Turret
Medium Energy Turret

Proposed Ishtar:
Heavy Drone
Drone
Drone
Medium Hybrid Turret

One of these things is not like the others. One of these things just doesn't belong.


The Zealot ofc, it's the only one that uses pure energy weaponry.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Shivanthar
#28 - 2014-11-28 17:28:55 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
Komi Toran wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
my suggestion to fix the ishtar is to remove the sentry optial range/tracking bonus all together and replace it with a fall off bonus to medium hybrid turrets...

Let's take a look:

Cerberus:
Light, Heavy, Heavy Assault Missile
Light, Heavy, Heavy Assault Missile
Light, Heavy, Heavy Assault Missile
Light, Heavy, Heavy Assault Missile

Muninn:
Medium Projectile Turret
Medium Projectile Turret
Medium Projectile Turret
Medium Projectile Turret

Zealot:
Medium Energy Turret
Medium Energy Turret
Medium Energy Turret
Medium Energy Turret

Proposed Ishtar:
Heavy Drone
Drone
Drone
Medium Hybrid Turret

One of these things is not like the others. One of these things just doesn't belong.


The Zealot ofc, it's the only one that uses pure energy weaponry.


No! Muninn ofc! It has the only weaponnary that insta-hitting target without any energy! ^.^

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#29 - 2014-11-28 18:47:21 UTC
-reduce dronebay to 250
- reduce tracking/velocity bonus too heavies to 5%
- reduce drone damage bonus to 5% for sentries and heavies

- make drones jammable and affectable by e-war

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#30 - 2014-11-29 05:26:12 UTC
I know this is not popular in this game but for once please try to look at something other than your own narrow focused PvP mentalities and consider how other non-PvP players use the Ishtar.

Since I started playing this game CCP has a habit of over nerfing instead of trying small adjustments over time. They made an adjustment to the Ishtar and now maybe it is time for another. Before we start with the nerf bat that will severely reduce it's usefulness to PvE areas of the game we need to try something like the quote below. Very few PvE players assign drones to assist someone else so this idea would have a minimal impact n the PvE players and it may be all that is needed to bring balance.

Arronicus wrote:
Every time this comes up, someone proposes just killing the drones, as if they believe it is a viable solution or something. It's rather mind boggling.

What if we simply lost the ability to delegate sentries? The ishtar wouldn't lose any pve usefulness, or in small gangs. In fleets, while it wouldnt take any power away from the ishtar, it would force them to actually target and attack the ships being called primary, instead of assigning them to designated drone bunnies, who they can then hit with remote sensor boosts or ECCM.


Besides I am not convinced that the Ishtar is OP. I have seen many of my circle of real life friends easily handle Ishtar fleets of 20 to 30 ships by using a 2 pronged approach. Long range heavy DPS with reps to destroy the sentry drones, after all they are literally sitting ducks in space. While a second wing of fast ships warps in close to harass the Ishtar's themselves forcing the pilots to make a choice recall sentries for closer in support options, or simply run away. Either works as it takes the sentry drones out of the battle.
Viribus
Aurora.
The Initiative.
#31 - 2014-11-29 06:39:29 UTC
Presidente Gallente wrote:
I would recommend to boost those lazy people without a proper overview and they should start to kill the Ishtar's drones. FIXED.


you DO realize that a fight of sentries from an Ishtar has a total of ~23k ehp right? and they can carry three flights of them? you're effectively doubling the ehp of the ishtar fleet if you decide to "just kill the drones hurr durr"

PVP MASTERS EXECUTIVE OUTCOMES AT IT AGAIN

watch me be a scurb and get owned
Viribus
Aurora.
The Initiative.
#32 - 2014-11-29 06:40:46 UTC
i honestly didn't think that even the EVE-O forums would be dumb enough to think Ishtars are balanced

life is full of surprises

watch me be a scurb and get owned
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#33 - 2014-11-29 06:47:02 UTC
Viribus wrote:
i honestly didn't think that even the EVE-O forums would be dumb enough to think Ishtars are balanced

life is full of surprises


That's fine, we would never expect anyone from Pizza to put in any sort of meaningful contribution to the conversation.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#34 - 2014-11-29 08:24:08 UTC
Viribus wrote:
you DO realize that a fight of sentries from an Ishtar has a total of ~23k ehp right? and they can carry three flights of them? you're effectively doubling the ehp of the ishtar fleet if you decide to "just kill the drones hurr durr"

That would be an issue if drones could broadcast for reps.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#35 - 2014-11-29 12:09:11 UTC
Unless I am mistaken all drones only have 1gj of cap. Does neuting them shut them off?
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#36 - 2014-11-29 15:20:09 UTC
How about this drones assigned to a player will receive any ewar effects. So if the anchor is being ecm and looses targeting then all drone loose target. Same thing for sensor damped or tracking disrupted. That way assigned drones would have a huge drawback when ewar is used

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#37 - 2014-11-29 17:07:44 UTC
Ishtar is fine where it is. Not sure if you crazies actually used a naga fleet before.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#38 - 2014-11-29 18:16:32 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
my suggestion to fix the ishtar is to remove the sentry optial range/tracking bonus all together and replace it with a fall off bonus to medium hybrid turrets...

Let's take a look:

Cerberus:
Light, Heavy, Heavy Assault Missile
Light, Heavy, Heavy Assault Missile
Light, Heavy, Heavy Assault Missile
Light, Heavy, Heavy Assault Missile

Muninn:
Medium Projectile Turret
Medium Projectile Turret
Medium Projectile Turret
Medium Projectile Turret

Zealot:
Medium Energy Turret
Medium Energy Turret
Medium Energy Turret
Medium Energy Turret

Proposed Ishtar:
Heavy Drone
Drone
Drone
Medium Hybrid Turret

One of these things is not like the others. One of these things just doesn't belong.


Yes because every ship needs to be a racial clone of the rest in its class......

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Mario Putzo
#39 - 2014-11-29 18:49:12 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
my suggestion to fix the ishtar is to remove the sentry optial range/tracking bonus all together and replace it with a fall off bonus to medium hybrid turrets...

Let's take a look:

Cerberus:
Light, Heavy, Heavy Assault Missile
Light, Heavy, Heavy Assault Missile
Light, Heavy, Heavy Assault Missile
Light, Heavy, Heavy Assault Missile

Muninn:
Medium Projectile Turret
Medium Projectile Turret
Medium Projectile Turret
Medium Projectile Turret

Zealot:
Medium Energy Turret
Medium Energy Turret
Medium Energy Turret
Medium Energy Turret

Proposed Ishtar:
Heavy Drone
Drone
Drone
Medium Hybrid Turret

One of these things is not like the others. One of these things just doesn't belong.


Ya should really have a drone link augmentor in the high slot instead of a medium hybrid turret. You don't put HAMS and HEAVIES on a CERB do you?

Ishtars primary weapon system is drones, a Cerbs primary weapon system is Missiles.

Besides its not an Ishtar issue, its a Heavy Missile issue, and the fact that BCs are ******* useless so Cruisers can fly around where ever they want to with impunity, unless countered with more Drone ships, because BC's are ******* useless.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#40 - 2014-11-29 19:31:19 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Yes because every ship needs to be a racial clone of the rest in its class......

Oh, there's a second person that doesn't understand why splitting bonuses makes the whole less effective.
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