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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

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Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1721 - 2014-11-28 17:51:50 UTC
Cervix Thumper wrote:
don't be dense... if they unsubscribed they stopped paying the re-subscription cost. That is real life money.


Think we just tried to say the same thing but I think I derped.
kraken11 jensen
ROOKS AND KRAKENS
#1722 - 2014-11-28 17:58:56 UTC
Recyclers wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Recyclers wrote:
I understand why many are happy about this. As with anything taken to the extreme it can ruin the game for others.
Perhaps there was a better way to deal with it thou?


I don't buy it. CODE took miner ganking and bumping to an extreme and there hasn't been a response by CCP on that.

Rain6637 wrote:
I'm trying to figure out what else could be made policy through petition spam

Wasn't the drone assist limit the result of mass petitions? I forget exactly how it came about since I wasn't in a null bloc at the time.


Execllent point Attention

Well I just unsubed all 9 of my accounts. Not just because of the multiboxing thing.
CPP ramming way to many changes at once.
I play games if there fun. When there not.... oh well



Im sorry for feeling this way, I understand that you feel it and i thought about unsubbing myself. But idk. I wont right now, but who knows.. that ccp make players unable to play the way they always have played since start etc. or make them unable to og the path they want.
Ugh
I wish you all well <3
And hope Things get better so you can join again, and you are very much welcome always <3 :)
kraken11 jensen
ROOKS AND KRAKENS
#1723 - 2014-11-28 18:01:55 UTC  |  Edited by: kraken11 jensen
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Recyclers wrote:
I understand why many are happy about this. As with anything taken to the extreme it can ruin the game for others.
Perhaps there was a better way to deal with it thou?


I don't buy it. CODE took miner ganking and bumping to an extreme and there hasn't been a response by CCP on that.

Rain6637 wrote:
I'm trying to figure out what else could be made policy through petition spam

Wasn't the drone assist limit the result of mass petitions? I forget exactly how it came about since I wasn't in a null bloc at the time.



Goonswarm = Pention swarm lol, i just have to say this. Blame goonswarm ! <3 :P, hehe :) i have heard that they get their ships replaced by sending pertision if players like Replicator killed them. (not suprised) lol 0.0

(just had to say that blame goonswarm thingy, lol <- edit)
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#1724 - 2014-11-28 18:03:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Basil Pupkin
Goon tears have major influence on CPP.
...

Which just makes them tastier when they don't! Lol

Seriously though, this thread demonstrates just how much are they used to getting things by overheating Rapid Tear Launchers.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
#1725 - 2014-11-28 18:03:51 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Deck Cadelanne wrote:
Recyclers wrote:


Well I just unsubed all 9 of my accounts. Not just because of the multiboxing thing.
CPP ramming way to many changes at once.
I play games if there fun. When there not.... oh well



If even one more subscription *paying* player replaces you, that is a net win. And you have just reduced the demand for PLEX ever so slightly, so even good for your fellow non-sub-paying brethren.


Are you another one of those people who think using PLEX to sub somehow takes away from CCP's revenue? Because that's wrong. CCP / a CSM explained that PLEX is under the "deferred income" tab, not "expenses".


This is really straightforward:

People willing to spend RL money to avoid in game grinding for ISK buy PLEX and sell it in game for ISK.

Players with more time than money spend the ISK they grind in game for PLEX to keep playing.

There is a straight up supply v. demand balance that drives the ISK cost of PLEX in game.

You unsub the nine characters you are currently using in-game ISK to pay for, all that happens is you reduce the demand for PLEX ever so slightly.

There is only so much money you can squeeze out of selling PLEX to the relatively small group of players that pay real-life cash for them. I am guessing that not only has that revenue stream peaked, it may in fact even be going down; that would explain why in-game PLEX price is rising steadily despite the alleged growth in numbers of accounts. That makes all the recent changes suddenly make sense. It means a big part of the problem for CCP is the lack of growth in *paying subscriptions.*

That's a real-life revenue problem for those too slow to keep up. More *players* will generate more revenue, which means changes to the game to make it easier for newer players to do stuff. Which is likely the biggest single driver behind a lot of the recent changes to game mechanics and will drive more to come.

Reducing the number of single-player-fifty-ship mining blobs eating all the minerals...reducing the number of single-player-twenty-bomber-blitzes...reducing the ability of groups of veterans to blob halfway across the galaxy to wipe almost anybody but their fellow veterans out of existence...these are good for the game, as they make it easier for single players - newer players - to get involved. Which means more money in the long run for CCP.

Get it?


"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."

- Hunter S. Thompson
kraken11 jensen
ROOKS AND KRAKENS
#1726 - 2014-11-28 18:04:40 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Goon tears have major influence on CPP.
...

Which just makes them tastier when they don't! Lol

Seriously though, this thread demonstrates just how much are they used to getting things by overheating Rapid Tear Launchers.



PirateLolCoolBig smileSmile

I feel ya there :)
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1727 - 2014-11-28 18:14:57 UTC
Deck Cadelanne wrote:
[quote=Nolak Ataru]
You unsub the nine characters you are currently using in-game ISK to pay for, all that happens is you reduce the demand for PLEX ever so slightly.


no actually that is backasswards.

You have have toons on subscription. when you unsubscribe them they rely on in game currency (Isk) to purchase Plex to extend the monthly play time. This drives the price of plex UP because they are no longer on subscription terms. O_o

Some of the gob that spews on this forum is just incredible.

unsubscribing is not the same as quitting... make no mistake about it. They are just not going to pay real hard currency into CCP's wallet anymore.
Miomeifeng Alduin
Lithonauts Inc.
#1728 - 2014-11-28 18:31:47 UTC
Cervix Thumper wrote:
Deck Cadelanne wrote:
[quote=Nolak Ataru]
You unsub the nine characters you are currently using in-game ISK to pay for, all that happens is you reduce the demand for PLEX ever so slightly.


no actually that is backasswards.

You have have toons on subscription. when you unsubscribe them they rely on in game currency (Isk) to purchase Plex to extend the monthly play time. This drives the price of plex UP because they are no longer on subscription terms. O_o

Some of the gob that spews on this forum is just incredible.

unsubscribing is not the same as quitting... make no mistake about it. They are just not going to pay real hard currency into CCP's wallet anymore.


Price of subscription: 10-15 euro. Price of plex: 20 euro. How do you figure they will continue playing without paying real hard currency? Someone else might pay for them through plex, but someone pays aslong as they play, and with plex they pay even more than they would by "dropping real hard currency into ccp's wallet".
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#1729 - 2014-11-28 18:49:09 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
I'm trying to figure out what else could be made policy through petition spam

AFK cloaking?
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1730 - 2014-11-28 18:51:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Cervix Thumper
Miomeifeng Alduin wrote:


Price of subscription: 10-15 euro. Price of plex: 20 euro. How do you figure they will continue playing without paying real hard currency? Someone else might pay for them through plex, but someone pays aslong as they play, and with plex they pay even more than they would by "dropping real hard currency into ccp's wallet".



again that is incorrect terms of the topic of this thread.

A player can earn enough ISK to purchase a subscription for 1 month (plex) via ISK on the market within 1 month, is that correct?

Thus if someone can unsubscribe AND earn enough ISK to pay for that account for the month they are playing for free.

Now comes the sticky part... do boxers have enough advantage to earn that amount of ISK per character to unsubscribe and go completely independent? Possibly, depending on their skill level, game play style and actual game input time.

It takes a lot of guts to unsub. Kudos for that. There will always be ppl selling Plex because they purchased it and want to buy the bigger shinier thing.

I have seen boxers boast 1 bill ISK in a day or less... so what? I'm not at that level and 1 bill in a day divided by 10 accts = 100,000,000 . Yea that is doable but not at my level. If the person will unsub and can accomplish this across 9 toons... more power to them. That is well within their right to do so. To bash a person for doing so... that is just bad form.
Miomeifeng Alduin
Lithonauts Inc.
#1731 - 2014-11-28 19:08:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Miomeifeng Alduin
Cervix Thumper wrote:
Miomeifeng Alduin wrote:


Price of subscription: 10-15 euro. Price of plex: 20 euro. How do you figure they will continue playing without paying real hard currency? Someone else might pay for them through plex, but someone pays aslong as they play, and with plex they pay even more than they would by "dropping real hard currency into ccp's wallet".



again that is incorrect terms of the topic of this thread.

A player can earn enough ISK to purchase a subscription for 1 month (plex) via ISK on the market within 1 month, is that correct?

Thus if someone can unsubscribe AND earn enough ISK to pay for that account for the month they are playing for free.

Now comes the sticky part... do boxers have enough advantage to earn that amount of ISK per character to unsubscribe and go completely independent? Possibly, depending on their skill level, game play style and actual game input time.

It takes a lot of guts to unsub. Kudos for that. There will always be ppl selling Plex because they purchased it and want to buy the bigger shinier thing.

I have seen boxers boast 1 bill ISK in a day or less... so what? I'm not at that level and 1 bill in a day divided by 10 accts = 100,000,000 . Yea that is doable but not at my level. If the person will unsub and can accomplish this across 9 toons... more power to them. That is well within their right to do so. To bash a person for doing so... that is just bad form.


Who do you think puts PLEX on the market? Players who bought it. It is impossible to play for free in this game. Someone always pays. CCP does NOT put plex on the market for free, it isn't seeded in stations or anything like that. Every plex that gets bought by someone "unsubscribing" (which isn't even correct), is paid for by another player who has paid 20 euro for it (or a bit less in the case of sales or certain deals).

If you can't understand that ...

Edit: its not because they dont pay for themselves, that they dont pay. (hell, they indirectly pay CCP more by buying plex off the market than they would by subscribing)
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1732 - 2014-11-28 19:18:57 UTC
I understand that and I do buy plex from CCP and sell it on the market on a regular basis.

As stated in my position above... O_o


loosing 9 subscriptions (which is a regular revenue stream) does not equate to someone buying and selling plex because they want the isk to buy shiny toys (inconsistent revenue stream).

And it is because they don't pay for themselves that they don't pay. Someone else is paying for them to play. Someone has to keep this company alive.

I am not going to say all, or a few, or some, or the majority... but boxers DO pay subscriptions. and We do buy and sell plex to buy things and replace losses just like everyone else. On a per capita basis I'd bet we inject 5x more hard currency into this game than the average player (all things being equal).
MrBowers
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1733 - 2014-11-28 19:27:13 UTC  |  Edited by: MrBowers
Eve just needs to design program which makes it easier to switch between my screen with out broadcasting tool needed.
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1734 - 2014-11-28 19:38:58 UTC
dude just get an ultra wide for $300 it will replace 2 of your standard screens.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#1735 - 2014-11-28 19:58:39 UTC
MrBowers wrote:
Eve just needs to design program which makes it easier to switch between my screen with out broadcasting tool needed.



I just alt tab. Running in fixed window, rather than full screen, makes this simple.

(or just spread 3 clients over three monitors)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Distaa
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#1736 - 2014-11-28 20:11:33 UTC
Cervix Thumper wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Deck Cadelanne wrote:
Recyclers wrote:


Well I just unsubed all 9 of my accounts. Not just because of the multiboxing thing.
CPP ramming way to many changes at once.
I play games if there fun. When there not.... oh well



If even one more subscription *paying* player replaces you, that is a net win. And you have just reduced the demand for PLEX ever so slightly, so even good for your fellow non-sub-paying brethren.


Are you another one of those people who think using PLEX to sub somehow takes away from CCP's revenue? Because that's wrong. CCP / a CSM explained that PLEX is under the "deferred income" tab, not "expenses".



don't be dense... if they unsubscribed they stopped paying the re-subscription cost. That is real life money.


How was plex paid for? Monopoly money?

6 month @ 12.95 per month = 77.7 USD
6 plex @ 16.96 = 101.7 USD
Plex nets CCP an extra 24.96 per six months per player.
I have 5 accounts, so 24.96 x 5 = 124.45 USD per 6 months.

The changes to multi-boxing probably won't effect the majority of the IsBoxer community. But it will effect the people within the community that have taken it to an extreme.

o7
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#1737 - 2014-11-28 21:15:34 UTC
Can CCP please clarify to their GMs that this new policy isn't going to be in effect until Jan 1st? There are reports of multiboxers already being banned for broadcasting, and re-petitions being closed... Roll
Distaa
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#1738 - 2014-11-28 21:22:17 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:
Can CCP please clarify to their GMs that this new policy isn't going to be in effect until Jan 1st? There are reports of multiboxers already being banned for broadcasting, and re-petitions being closed... Roll


I feel sure that some kind of internal memo has made the rounds at CCP, if banning really is taking place I would attribute it to other reasons.


o7
kraken11 jensen
ROOKS AND KRAKENS
#1739 - 2014-11-28 21:25:33 UTC
Distaa wrote:
Chris Winter wrote:
Can CCP please clarify to their GMs that this new policy isn't going to be in effect until Jan 1st? There are reports of multiboxers already being banned for broadcasting, and re-petitions being closed... Roll


I feel sure that some kind of internal memo has made the rounds at CCP, if banning really is taking place I would attribute it to other reasons.


o7



''sure''
When they do an change like this, who knows what they will do, or going to do? QuestionStraight
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#1740 - 2014-11-28 22:34:16 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:
Can CCP please clarify to their GMs that this new policy isn't going to be in effect until Jan 1st? There are reports of multiboxers already being banned for broadcasting, and re-petitions being closed... Roll


That would literally be "Christmas came early", won't it? Big smile

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.