These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Why are people leaving? and wjhat can we do about it?

Author
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#221 - 2014-10-27 18:28:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
3 most common factors I've seen for why people quit/don't persist with the game when trying to encourage people I know IRL to play:

-Getting suicide ganked before they've learnt to walk (not an easy one to fix without changing the nature of the game).

-Have a hard time relating where they are and what they are doing to the bigger game as a whole. (Some of this is being covered in the work CCP Rise is doing at the moment which is encouraging).

-Interruption of long term goals - some of this is part of the game, some due to changes to the game and so on.
Wolf Incaelum
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#222 - 2014-10-27 18:37:43 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
Wolf Incaelum wrote:


Suicide gankers face the following risks:

  • Losing 100% of what they put into the gank 100% of the time.
  • Not getting as much out of the gank as they put into it.
  • Getting podded after the Concordoken if there is another pilot near by ready to jump on the pod if the ganker messes up his warp out, which DOES happen from time to time. Everyone makes mistakes, sometimes.
  • Getting scanned down and podded at his safe spot while he's on his alt picking up the loot (which also requires a fumble on the gankers part).
  • Getting attacked in his loot ship because looting a wreck that isn't yours and isn't abandoned gives you a suspect timer.
  • Here comes a big one...
  • Trying to gank with -10 sec status (let alone trying to ******* travel...)


So please explain to me how the risks of suicide ganking are "minimal to none". Please explain how these activities "carry no real risk or consequences". Please explain why there needs to be ADDITIONAL risks to suicide ganking. Furthermore, please explain to me WHY it is that people have such a hard time defending themselves against suicide gankers. They never have any tank at all because it's a waste of money to tank a ship that's guaranteed to get blown up anyway. Hell, even if the Concordoken CAN be tanked, it's not going to happen in a freaking Tornado, and it SURE as hell isn't gonna happen in a Thrasher or Catalyst.

Edit: Not to mention that even if you can tank the CC, you still can't fly anywhere because you aren't allowed to warp, dock, or use gates, you're probably being neuted like crazy (so your active tank, if you have one, will be useless), you can't eject from your ship, and you're scrammed and webbed.

There are plenty of ways to avoid a suicide gank or to cause the gank to fail. YOU HAVE OPTIONS. It's just that so many of you get so goddamn frustrated that you don't think to start a conversation with the ganker and ask questions like "what can I do better next time". Believe it or not, a lot of them will be nice enough to tell you. Obviously, some will not. They see it as being bad for business. The way I see it, Eve will never run out of miners who don't know how to protect themselves against a gank. Which isn't a bad thing. That means that there will always be something to teach to someone so that they can grow, make progress, and begin to enjoy Eve in its entirety. But when you send us hate mail, message us with threats, and just generally be a pansy about it, we're going to take the opportunity to harvest some tears.


i watch groups of dessy's -10 warp into my missions when i'm running for SoE to try to gank me so don't say moving around is all that hard. the bigger negatives you list are are avoidable just like you claim you can avoid a gank, the losing a pod, or the losing of the looter.


I'll tell you what, Rift. You go get yourself a nice -10 sec, and THEN come tell me how easy it is to fly around in hisec while trying to do something productive. I'd make a real-money bet with you that you'll probably quit and start grinding your sec back up as soon as the faction po-pos start chasing after you in 0.8+, but I think making such a bet might be against the rules.

ANARCHYFOREVAAARRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!

Wolf Incaelum
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#223 - 2014-10-27 18:45:26 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Reasons people quit

1. Scamming
2. Suicide ganking without real consequences
3. Awoxing
4. Repetitive PvE experience

Fix these and you can actually retain a large player base that enjoys PvE, and doesn't need to get an emotional high by blowing up other people.


An example of a poster who does not need evidence to hold an opinion as if it were fact.

By the numbers and graphs available, EVE grew steadily over the years, in accounts if not people. Things changes, CCP did things to make the game less risky (crime watch, the old CONCORD buff, the NPC police buff, safeties that prevent accidental content like jumping into low sec, micro jumpdrives and other modules that help people who want to avoid a fight etc etc).

The game is measurably safer than it was at ANY time in the past, and yet people are noticing lower pcu counts and speculating about account loss. In other words. the exact opposite of what Veers believes. CCP's well intended moves made EVE boringly peaceful. It's what people (like the psoter I quoted) asked for because that's what people (ignorantly) thought they wanted.

But the fact is, EVE is a game, a game of villainy.

It's not supposed to be safe and peaceful and "'relaxing after a long day at work" like most ofter games and MMOs are. It's supposed to be a space theme'd mosh pit, an interstellar biker bar where peace is simply the short interval between bar fights. EVE is supposed to make you angry, because in a game like this anger is a much more useful and enjoyable (and addictive) emotion than the placid melancholy of a grazing cow in a field.

If CCP wants to right the boat (so to speak), they will ignore the "protectionist" crowd and turn EVE into the exciting and chaotic game world it needs to be to start growing again.


---

I once posted a bad (and vaguely sexist) joke about the carebear-ist reaction to the currently safer state of EVE. It seems apt now:

A guy was married to a wonderful woman, the best wife and mother of his children a man could ask for. He knew it, but he was still a major A-hole to her. He lied, he cheated, he took her for granted, and still , knowing this, she took him back time and time again, no matter what he did.

One day he had a horrendous car wreck. Came within an inch of his life. His wife was by his side at the hospital the whole time. The experience made him realize that that he's been so horrible all these years, and that he really needed to change his ways.. He resolved to do so, and when he went home from the hospital, he made good on his promise. He treated his wife with kindness, respect and deference.

One day he comes home from work to find his house cleaned out and everything gone. On the only chair left in the house was a note. It read:

"Dear husband, these years of our marriage have been tough, but your behavior since the accident has been outstanding, I appreciate how much courage it has taken you to realize your faults and change for me and I love you for that.

However, I'm leaving you....mainly because you are no longer the man I fell in love with".

--

Told you it was a bad joke. It's also true when it comes to EVE (which was better when its slightly more jerky Big smile ).


I don't care that this isn't technically a proposal, I'm +1ing it. I would like to see how Eve used to be. I'd like to see where all of these old men with 5 and 10 year accounts came from. What did they learn that made them into the awesome pilots they are today, and how the hell did they learn it?

ANARCHYFOREVAAARRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!

Evora Pirkibo
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#224 - 2014-10-27 18:59:14 UTC
Eve needs more conflict drivers, but I fail to see evidence of CCP having the balls to do what is necessary.

Players tend to live within a bubble, their comfort zone, how they like to play, whatever. What brings life, emergent content, and interest is more of these bubbles interacting. Often but in no way limited to explosions. The dynamic social component feeds from this and the easier it is to survive the less people are inclined to interact.

On a long enough timeline, the life expectancy of everyone drops to zero.

Alyssa Haginen
Doomheim
#225 - 2014-10-27 20:00:31 UTC
Some of the devs in CCP are nothing more then extensions of their in game corps will with more power then the CSM. There has be more then one case in this game in which developers seemingly spawned in game help for certain alliances which have ruined others. This is one reason why CCP has lost so much business. They pretty much ask you to pay $15 a month and then scoff at your suggestions. The underlying idea of the game itself is great, exploration of space and the unknown. The sandbox has really lost its draw though, all the toys are used, abused, old and all the little nooks, caves, and hills have already been sought out.

Two of the main reasons I think will make this game a mere memory.

1. Lack of content for time invested...I fly through areas and systems which were once filled with activity and they are like ghost towns now. There may be a few people here and there but, compared to a couple years ago, they are dead. This applies to low sec and null sec, there is a major lack of activity, besides 20+ man fleets. Nobody wants to sit around waiting and hunting for what could be a full 8 hour day, all for one battle, or do the same mission over and over again. It is so boring it literally makes you fall asleep, and even if your interest is peaked in a space exploration MMO, each time you come back to the game you come to the conclusion that this game is now very boring. Now that all of my stuff is safe, I might just quit again until EVE either dies or becomes interesting again.

2. Inability to adapt and pride...CCP is so wrapped up in this idea that their game has to follow these exact guidelines that it is now causing them to make the game stagnant. If the player isn't really into the idea of space exploration, you won't get that second, third, and fourth chance. It's not enough to blow off all kinds of feedback and then hope by changing what should of been changed last year, you will regain lost business. Most people will relate to their bad experience with your game and look the other way.
Ramiel Wayfarer
#226 - 2014-11-26 23:16:25 UTC
Most of my friends who I knew in eve left because of the lag infested fleet battles where you could not activate a single module and lost expensive ships which got very boring in the end , Eve used to be brilliant to play back in the early days but game mechanics changed over the years and things changed for the worse I think. Anyone remember the days when you could roam in 0.0 say in a 6,7,8 man gang and get a really good fight with another hostile gang with around the same numbers time after time night after night... Last time I went out on roams in venal we hardly saw any roaming gangs at all but got hot dropped with black ops dozens of times.I often thought black ops was a bad move by ccp because many of the small roaming gangs instead sat waiting to be cyno by black ops..I wish I could turn the clock back to when eve online was fun to play...I still keep my char training but never play anymore.

I remember seeing 50000 + players logged on around 2007 regular during the week but now days I see around 20000 so I guess that says it all.

jimmy
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#227 - 2014-11-27 00:39:43 UTC
Wolf Incaelum wrote:

I'll tell you what, Rift. You go get yourself a nice -10 sec, and THEN come tell me how easy it is to fly around in hisec while trying to do something productive. I'd make a real-money bet with you that you'll probably quit and start grinding your sec back up as soon as the faction po-pos start chasing after you in 0.8+, but I think making such a bet might be against the rules.

Except we all know that most -10 people in highsec are alts that get fed ships & isk who only suicide gank, while using positive sec alts to help them. And with no bubbles they can warp around happily with just their pod or a shuttle since basically no-one can lock them fast enough to kill them unless they happen to be in a boosted insti locking gate camp. And even that depends on server ticks.
And since suicide gankers are the aggressors they can choose where in high sec they want to be, while a gate camp specifically looking for them is blind fishing in most cases.

So lets not talk about this rubbish about 'doing productive things' when talking about -10 suicide gankers, since we know you don't actually use that particular alt like that anyway.

Also for Ramiel.
Last 24 hours. 37k+
Last week. 42k+
And numbers logged in means nothing if most of them are ship spinning anyway. 20k active in space pilots is worth more than 40k when only 10k are doing something.
Ramiel Wayfarer
#228 - 2014-11-27 11:00:36 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Wolf Incaelum wrote:

I'll tell you what, Rift. You go get yourself a nice -10 sec, and THEN come tell me how easy it is to fly around in hisec while trying to do something productive. I'd make a real-money bet with you that you'll probably quit and start grinding your sec back up as soon as the faction po-pos start chasing after you in 0.8+, but I think making such a bet might be against the rules.

Except we all know that most -10 people in highsec are alts that get fed ships & isk who only suicide gank, while using positive sec alts to help them. And with no bubbles they can warp around happily with just their pod or a shuttle since basically no-one can lock them fast enough to kill them unless they happen to be in a boosted insti locking gate camp. And even that depends on server ticks.
And since suicide gankers are the aggressors they can choose where in high sec they want to be, while a gate camp specifically looking for them is blind fishing in most cases.

So lets not talk about this rubbish about 'doing productive things' when talking about -10 suicide gankers, since we know you don't actually use that particular alt like that anyway.

Also for Ramiel.
Last 24 hours. 37k+
Last week. 42k+
And numbers logged in means nothing if most of them are ship spinning anyway. 20k active in space pilots is worth more than 40k when only 10k are doing something.



And numbers logged in means nothing

Well actually when 50000+ were logged onto the server every weekday evening around 2007 and now I see a average of 20000 in 2014 it tells me people are leaving the game or bored of the game....I do not recall seeing 42+k logged on in EU prime time recently but i will double check again after work everynight.
Doddy
Excidium.
#229 - 2014-11-27 15:38:58 UTC
System caps get abused to death. Simply fill the system you are defending or attacking with your guys and your opponent cannot do anything.
Ramiel Wayfarer
#230 - 2014-12-06 16:18:10 UTC
Doddy wrote:
System caps get abused to death. Simply fill the system you are defending or attacking with your guys and your opponent cannot do anything.


or go and play world of tanks Lol
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#231 - 2014-12-06 16:43:37 UTC
Ramiel Wayfarer wrote:



And numbers logged in means nothing

Well actually when 50000+ were logged onto the server every weekday evening around 2007 and now I see a average of 20000 in 2014 it tells me people are leaving the game or bored of the game....I do not recall seeing 42+k logged on in EU prime time recently but i will double check again after work everynight.


36,344 at current and rising.