Intergalactic Summit

If someone wants to resort to violence to try to further some kind of separatist movement on Achur, I think they'll find that the State will gladly go more than a little out of their way to make sure it does not happen.

If someone wants to leave the State to pursue an idealized dream of Achur in the mythical days of yore, CONCORD makes some very reliable navigation software to assist a person in their travels. Alternatively, I can help them find a nice wormhole somewhere.

However, if someone wants to work to build a future instead of destroying the present to bring back the past, there are many who would find great joy in that work. And great profit, financially and spiritually.

Thank you Mr. Tuulinen. Or is it Captain? This interface does not provide correct honorifics....

Thank you as well, Ms. Kim.

Miss Ueshiba,

I am afraid I do not know how to respond other then to repeat myself in saying that no one on the homeworld wants a reversal of progress, least of all me. I would be head-over-heels with joy to do exactly as you say and participate in the modernization of my society and culture within the context of the State in any way that pleased it, to build a new future for our people, if the State would only remove some of the cultural regulations and laws that make that very, very difficult.

I am not expecting it to carry us. I am merely hoping it will remove the clamps it has placed on our feet.

Please, don't mistake me. All these bad things I'm listing - People leaving the State en masse, people developing seperatist sentiment (though I would like to believe that if the Elder Visionaries did vote to secede, the State would let them, however misguided they might think the decision), these are all really awful outcomes that I would hate. They are not a threat, but the opposite; They are what I fear will happen if nothing changes.

Though, if I may comment, I found it a little upsetting to see you suggest that my wanting to perpetate our current way of life is chasing "days of yore". I am not a relic, miss Ueshiba. I was born in the present day, just like you, into a modern and open-minded (if somewhat reclusive) society that just happens not quite want to govern itself in the way the Caldari at large do. I am not trying to resurrect the past at the expense of the present, because the past never died to begin with. We are still here.

And before you suggest to me that theocracy is an inherently backwards way of life compared to corporatism, as a citizen declared to me in the Summit the other day, you might want to take a glance at the star cluster south.

Diana,

You know that it's not just monasteries and farms on the homeworld outside of SuVee's enclaves, right? We have our own towns and light industry. We're not backwards.

In any case, we're going in circles. I could tell you again that for many people, adopting the corporate form of government (again, except in the case of the slow integration being accepted by the existing megacorporations would allow) would defeat the entire point of not just joining a megacorporation, and that it is unreasonable to shoehorn us in such a way. Or that the bias for the Caldari Way is written into the State at a very structural level, and is not merely "set by the people" in each individual memeber of the Big 8 - Which would continue to make it very difficult for us to grow even if we did.

I could also argue that we might be better equpped to "build our own rockets" if a certain corporation hadn't taken all our natural resources without paying for them.

But you obviously don't agree that the State should be held accountable to any extent for the present state of affairs, so this is pointless. Thank you for your contribution, regardless.

...Indulge my curiosity on something as a purely intellectual exercise, though. While I hope I've made it clear enough that I don't desire seperatism and that it is a bad idea, as an unlikely hypothetical, what would be your response if the client state declared it did want to leave the State? Nonviolently, I mean.

Pieter, you confuse me.
In one post, you agree that a change in the way the state handles the Achuran situation would be of benefit to both our peoples.
A few posts later, you agree with Ms Ueshiba here, who says that the status quo, where we Achurans are forced to relinquish our culture is fine.

However poetic her words on the matter, it seems, to me at least, that they boil down to 'do what they say and stop whining'

You yourself admit there is a parallel between what is happening on Achur now, and what happened over two centuries ago in Luminaire.

The state rules, as they stand, are a clear attempt at cultural cleansing. Something I was under the impression the Caldari people took great offense to.

Or is that simply when it comes to the 'Caldari way'?
From where I'm standing it certainly appears that hypocrisy is built into the state on a fundamental level.

Tell me, in your opinion, Should the Achuran people decide that they have had enough of this double standard, What would SuVee's reaction be?
What would the rest of the State do?

I fear that history often repeats itself, Yet we of Achur do not have colonies to retreat to, or a significant navy to protect ourselves.

To... Be honest, I was only really curious about your opinion on if the State should allow it to secede in principle, not what would happen once it did so. While you paint a possibly overly-grim picture, I'm well aware it would be bad for it for a great range of reasons.

I suppose you've answered me implicitly with that response anyway, though, so thank you.



While it wouldn't serve as a long-term solution, it probably would do some good for the closest relation to the imperial remnants to not have so much... Baggage. Though a lot of family links do now exist between the two which would be broken.

However, I'm not sure that would really be viable. As far as I'm aware, Sukuuvestaa doesn't really "hold the reins" of the client state above any other part of the State in a way established on paper - It's just a circumstance of it having made the somewhat dubious choice of making Saisio it's corporate capital system that it has by far the most contact, trade, and subsequently, influence with it. Plus the fact that it "owns" the corporate enclaves on the planet itself, of course.

All of this could change, in theory, if SuVee were willing to surrender those assets for the possibility of benefit to the whole. ...Though that is not very likely to happen. This is SuVee we are talking about, after all. Ill-gotten or not, you'd need a coal fire and a pair of pliers to seperate them from anything that makes them money.

I actually interpreted her words as being a clarion call to make the right choice in a selection between infighting or opression and working together to build a better tomorrow, integrating the Achuran people within the mainstream of the State.

I also think that any quick fix would likely be a poor solution. This will likely take generations!



The State has always been mono-cultural. We have always required those who join us to adopt our ways. I have agreed that the situation should be different with the Achurans, who we selected to join us and who we uplifted. I wouldn't see you in a Client/Master state relationship, but I also do not think the Achuran culture AS IT IS will survive the process of joining the Caldari Mainstream. Instead, hopefully, the best of you will be added to the best of us and together we march in step, into the future.

Let me be clear. There is no room for multiculturalism within the State. If you're telling me that you are the equal of the Deteis or the Civire and that we could stand to learn much of value from you, then I agree. And, of course, those changes should be incorporated into our daily lives and become part of the Caldari Way. If you're telling me that your culture is superior to the Civire or the Deteis, that it should be preserved as a separate and individual entity and that it should be protected and isolated from mixing with the Caldari Way, then I disagree.




I believe it is the duty of the State to welcome you into our mainstream as equals. Achuran colonies? No. Achuran enclaves? No. Achuran monasteries everywhere? No. Achurans spread throughout the State? Yes. Achuran Citizens of ALL the corporations? Yes. Achuran philosophies worked into and complimenting Wayiism? Yes.

That should be Suvee's duty. That should be the CEP's duty.

As for the duty of the Achurans - I'm less certain. I think Gwen is right and that you'd be mad not to take the chance to earn your place within the State's mainstream and within the future that includes.

If you really could not work within the State system and you decided - en masse - to secede, I suppose we'd have to let you have the running of your Homeworld. We'd need to work out a way to compensate Suvee for their lost investments, should you decide to nationalise them and, I'm sorry, but you no more own the space around your Homeworld than we own the space around ours.

It would be far from an ideal situation and, I feel, it would breed discontent and store up resentment for later - but what WOULD be an ideal situation? Would the Achurans, not being content to be contained to one world, be content to be bottled up into one system? Would they expect us to cede system after system to them, to provide them with room to expand? That sort of room is earned in only one way and, under those circumstances, wouldn't we be insane not to force that fight whilst you still represented absolutely zero threat to us?

Diana and Gwen gamed out one possible scenario, where the Client state demanded and received more independence - but Suvee refused to yield it's ownership of the cities and territory. Gwen claimed that Diana painted a grim picture, but I'm sure you're dialed into an even grimmer wavelength of insurrection, terrorism and oppression. All these things are possible.

You know the way that the State operates. Whilst you are part of the State, we are beholden to your welfare. We must ensure you prosper and do not go short. We have to ensure you have access to resources, education, technology and other opportunities. But, should the Achurans decide they are no longer an in-group but an out-group - that changes the equation. Suddenly it is Suvee's duty as a Practical bloc corporation to screw you for everything they can get - and nobody uninvolved with the Saisio system will care what is done. You will be outsiders. Jaijii. Noughts with no rim.

And if you lift your hand against the State, you cease to become a neutral jaijii to be exploited and become an enemy to be destroyed.

I'm well aware of the parallels and personally, my shoulder and weight go right behind Achurans getting a fair shake at becoming full partners of the State in every sense of the word.

My apologies, Gwen, but I was asked to speak hypothetically from the Achuran position..

And, yes, there are a number of negative outcomes for the State. Personally, I'm more worried for the Achurans, who could face true horrors in many of these scenarios.

I don't see a problem with a syncretic faith arising from a merger of the Achuran faith and Wayiism. I don't see a problem with the inclusion of a suitable Achuran shrine, especially in the short-term. I do not think we should classify the adherence of the Achurans to their own faith as being the following of a 'foreign' faith - since by definition it is native to the State - but you are going to have to get a LOT better at including Civire and Deteis.

Does this provide some reassurance?

I think the point that YOU need to answer is one of whether you see a separate Achuran bubble within the State where Achurans pursue solely Achuran ways or do you see an adjustment of the State mainstream to accommodate Achurans who are also willing to adjust themselves?

But let's get this onto the table. Neither the current mainstream version of State culture or the current version of Achuran culture can (or should!) survive this change intact and unchanged. Are you, as Gwen claimed, a dynamic people with a vibrant and evolving society who yearn to embrace the future and become a part of some greater whole, or are you simply demanding that we make the State multicultural to accommodate you without making you a part of the State proper in the same way that Civire and Deteis are?

One of these things can happen and one of them cannot.

And let me speak to the hostility and bitterness you clearly feel. YES we have a duty to make Achurans more welcome within the State mainstream but you also are guilty of being reserved and standoffish. This is going to have to be a two way street - you can't bury your culture beneath a mask of smiling indifference. You can't maintain your distance from us - you're talking about marrying into the family and that means that YOU also have a lot of work to do when it comes to sharing yourselves with US.

Because if you don't want to be my brother I really don't see why I should undergo all this pain on your behalf. If you want to remain an outsider, then I'll treat you like an outsider and then I don't give a damn about your feelings. If you then become hostile then you're my enemy and at that point I'll burn you and take your stuff.

If you're preparing to leap onto that and claim I'm a hypocrite because of my feelings about my own Homeworld - here's where I see the big difference between what happened to us and what could happen to you. I absolutely believe that these should be YOUR decisions - decide whether you want to become my brother (and then we can work out that difficult and lengthy process with a maximum of consideration and sensitivity on both sides) an outsider (and then we have to work out a reasonably fair endgoal - but not too fair, because... jaijii...) or an enemy (in which case, look to the skies for our coming, children of the dust).

Think well.