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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#1341 - 2014-11-26 18:56:19 UTC
ShadowandLight wrote:
It's not accelerated, it's doing the same thing from a more convenient place.


if its not accelerated, you woundnt want doing it.
Eryn Velasquez
#1342 - 2014-11-26 18:57:53 UTC
Cervix Thumper wrote:
white male privilege wrote:
Mining with 10 hulks takes the exact same time to plex all of your accounts as it does for a regular guy mining with one character to plex his one account.



white male privilege wrote:
So after the multicaster has made his plex for the month he can then continue mining making ten times what a regular player can, or he star pvping, doing bombing runs by himself which is again an unfair multiplier of the veteran's time spent in eve.


Ok you've just contradicted yourself and or simply can't add numbers.

If it takes me 10 days in 1 hulk to earn a plex.. 10 accounts would take me... 10 days if all said and done were equal.

While the "miltiboxer" (not multicaster.. save that for the fantasy games) will have another 20 days to do what ever, so would the solo player.

ISboxer has very little to do with that. I can take all my toons and launch them in fleet and take out a belt. I might be able to take that belt 10 times faster than a solo player but my costs are 10 x as large.

So NO multiboxing with ISboxer with the same ships in the same situation is NOT more profitable at least when it comes to mining.

I can't speak for incursions or missioning because I haven't tried ISboxer in that situation.




If a single person with a single account needs 10 days to plex his account, he than has 20 days to mine/pve or whatever to gain ISK worth 2 additional plexes.
the single person with 10 accounts makes ISK worth 20 additional plexes in the same time. As he doesn't need those ISK to plex his account, he can buy a super/titan 10 times faster than the single player.

_“A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau _
KC Kamikaze
Blue-Fire
#1343 - 2014-11-26 18:58:28 UTC
Verde Minator wrote:
prime example of why it's considered cheating:

the starcraft league's back in the day, where people had build orders, hot keys, ways to micro manage their build orders and what not..

they still do. that's skill.

what you are doing is akin to the old diablo2 lod trainers and bots that would farm for gold or any other games that would farm for you on multiple machines based on colors on the screen.


completely without skill

feed me your tears please!!!!!!!!!!

you are only showing how low you had to stoop to beat people with skill, because you have none.

its like professional athletes that have to use performance enhancing drugs to beat the players that can do it because they just are that good and they train hard, and are professionals, people WITH SKILL.

to recap, micro managing used to win people money back in the star craft tournaments, still do today... a hot key not a script, but i dont think you know what im talking about because you act like you have skills and are a gamer, any tool can go do what you have done. i could teach my gramma how to do what you do.

i could probably teach a dog how to do it, im sure a monkey could.. if you could teach a monkey how to point at the dot on the screen and told it to press a key, it could make bombing runs for you...

but okay.. enough. im done.. i seriously dont think you even understand what im getting at, either you are attempting to troll even harder because you have been trolling this whole time using this type of program, or you are just not seeing what's going on here...

it's like putting peyton manning in little league basically..

are you serious guys? your going to complain?

just .. yes please do complain, this is the best, the best fun ive had in a week or two.. maybe.. lolz!!!!!!!!


Eve is nothing like starcraft or diablo or wow.

You hate multiboxing because you lack the motor skills to do it? You can't afford it so it's not fair?

Peyton manning in little league? EVE is akin to little league how? Because you are in it everyone else who does something differently or better than you needs a nerf bat?

Some isboxers are complaining. Most of us though are sitting back enjoying the hate show you are putting on. You guys hate it so much and so blindly while at the same time not understanding the mechanics of it in the least. You just assume it makes our 10 man fleet as good or better than yours. Unless you are complete scrubs our 10 man isboxer fleet is not better than your 10 man human fleet in terms of character management.... not even close.

I'm gonna want a t2 tearbucket for January 2nd.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#1344 - 2014-11-26 19:05:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
KC Kamikaze wrote:
You hate multiboxing because you lack the motor skills to do it? You can't afford it so it's not fair?

because you lack motor skills to do it by yourself, you use 3rd party software for automation your sh*t - this is why we dont like it.

KC Kamikaze wrote:

You just assume it makes our 10 man fleet as good or better than yours. Unless you are complete scrubs our 10 man isboxer fleet is not better than your 10 man human fleet in terms of character management.... not even close.

you know why you use isbotter, dont you? Otherwise you wouldnt if it wasnt better in certain situations.

KC Kamikaze wrote:

I'm gonna want a t2 tearbucket for January 2nd.

me too
Apo Lamperouge
#1345 - 2014-11-26 19:05:55 UTC
dave fromheadoffice wrote:
Want to buy tech 2 bucket for all these tears, my tech 1 bucket has overflown


No, this is Draclira's Modified Bucket o' Tears. Unlimited capacity, +100% to deliciousness per level.

Sometimes a knife right through your heart is exactly what you need.
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1346 - 2014-11-26 19:12:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Cervix Thumper
Eryn Velasquez wrote:



If a single person with a single account needs 10 days to plex his account, he than has 20 days to mine/pve or whatever to gain ISK worth 2 additional plexes.
the single person with 10 accounts makes ISK worth 20 additional plexes in the same time. As he doesn't need those ISK to plex his account, he can buy a super/titan 10 times faster than the single player.


In theory yes, that is possible if all the funds were channeled to the main character. In practice that may have happened but usually skill costs, ammo costs and general main costs prohibit that. As stated keeping 10 toons is 10 times more expensive than keeping 1 toon. When you're talking an end game ship (you can't go any further), it is actually easier to fast track it on a single character and plex that toon.

We're not talking theory here.. there are no "what if s" or "he COULD do that" . CCP has made a decision and many (too many) have a misconception of what is really happening on our side. Our side is the exact same as yours... we just have more toons doing it.

If it costs you xxx to replace a ship... it costs us the same. Skill books and time are the same only compounded. No biggie.
Llama Cantari
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1347 - 2014-11-26 19:16:44 UTC
11/10 To all ISBoxers rage unsubbing, don't let the door hit you, contract me your **** before you log. ( Just don't multiplex to do it please. ) KThxBaiNao!

Long overdue, well done CCP.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#1348 - 2014-11-26 19:19:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Cervix Thumper wrote:
Eryn Velasquez wrote:



If a single person with a single account needs 10 days to plex his account, he than has 20 days to mine/pve or whatever to gain ISK worth 2 additional plexes.
the single person with 10 accounts makes ISK worth 20 additional plexes in the same time. As he doesn't need those ISK to plex his account, he can buy a super/titan 10 times faster than the single player.


In theory yes, that is possible if all the funds were channeled to the main character. In practice that may have happened but usually skill costs, ammo costs and general main costs prohibit that. As stated keeping 10 toons is 10 times more expensive than keeping 1 toon. When you're talking an end game ship (you can't go any further), it is actually easier to fast track it on a single character and plex that toon.

We're not talking theory here.. there are no "what if s" or "he COULD do that" . CCP has made a decision and many (too many) have a misconception of what is really happening on our side. Our side is the exact same as yours... we just have more toons doing it.

If it costs you xxx to replace a ship... it costs us the same. Skill books and time are the same only compounded. No biggie.


accelerated gameplay lies in the higher efficiency of broadcasted input.
While you would loose a lot of time cycling through your clients, locking targets at each single one of them manually, firing weapons manually, you name it, isbotter removes most of this human interaction overhead (->accelerated gameplay) and gain massive advantage oversomeone not using such automation tools - this is exactly the reason why people isbotted primarily, why they want to keep it in some way or another or seeking for workarounds around now changed policy.
Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union
Hatakani Trade Winds Combine
#1349 - 2014-11-26 19:23:06 UTC
Surprising, but good move CCP
Verde Minator
Crack And Cookies For Santa
#1350 - 2014-11-26 19:29:07 UTC
Cervix Thumper wrote:
Eryn Velasquez wrote:



If a single person with a single account needs 10 days to plex his account, he than has 20 days to mine/pve or whatever to gain ISK worth 2 additional plexes.
the single person with 10 accounts makes ISK worth 20 additional plexes in the same time. As he doesn't need those ISK to plex his account, he can buy a super/titan 10 times faster than the single player.


In theory yes, that is possible if all the funds were channeled to the main character. In practice that may have happened but usually skill costs, ammo costs and general main costs prohibit that. As stated keeping 10 toons is 10 times more expensive than keeping 1 toon. When you're talking an end game ship (you can't go any further), it is actually easier to fast track it on a single character and plex that toon.

We're not talking theory here.. there are no "what if s" or "he COULD do that" . CCP has made a decision and many (too many) have a misconception of what is really happening on our side. Our side is the exact same as yours... we just have more toons doing it.

If it costs you xxx to replace a ship... it costs us the same. Skill books and time are the same only compounded. No biggie.



did u just try to break cheating down into stock broker terms? like you were trading this? telling us that it's 10x more expensive while ultimately being able to make at least 2 times what one of those characters makes.. did you seriously just give us a risk assessment to justify your cheating because you have no skills? i really.. yeah you are trolling.. straight up.. trolling..

for that other person stating im comparing eve as a whole to anything else, no... i used a metaphor, but okay, like i said, you dont understand basic english and apparently can't think creatively, no imagination.

don't need a tear bucket, thats all getting licked off their faces, now im huffing on the smoke coming out of their ears as they try to think up ways of being insulting.. the rage is burning bright within them...

thinking up ways justify and troll at the same time, i think they are overheating... time to apply mustard, it helps draw out the burn better, cold water only makes the burn hurt more.. but umm, BURN.. no more cheats for you...
white male privilege
Doomheim
#1351 - 2014-11-26 19:31:04 UTC
Cervix Thumper wrote:
white male privilege wrote:
Mining with 10 hulks takes the exact same time to plex all of your accounts as it does for a regular guy mining with one character to plex his one account.



white male privilege wrote:
So after the multicaster has made his plex for the month he can then continue mining making ten times what a regular player can, or he star pvping, doing bombing runs by himself which is again an unfair multiplier of the veteran's time spent in eve.


Ok you've just contradicted yourself and or simply can't add numbers.

If it takes me 10 days in 1 hulk to earn a plex.. 10 accounts would take me... 10 days if all said and done were equal.

While the "miltiboxer" (not multicaster.. save that for the fantasy games) will have another 20 days to do what ever, so would the solo player.

ISboxer has very little to do with that. I can take all my toons and launch them in fleet and take out a belt. I might be able to take that belt 10 times faster than a solo player but my costs are 10 x as large.

So NO multiboxing with ISboxer with the same ships in the same situation is NOT more profitable at least when it comes to mining.

I can't speak for incursions or missioning because I haven't tried ISboxer in that situation.


if the multiboxer continues mining after the plex requirement is met, he starts making ten times what someone in a solo miner will
KC Kamikaze
Blue-Fire
#1352 - 2014-11-26 19:33:38 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
KC Kamikaze wrote:
You hate multiboxing because you lack the motor skills to do it? You can't afford it so it's not fair?

because you lack motor skills to do it by yourself, you use 3rd party software for automation your sh*t - this is why we dont like it.

KC Kamikaze wrote:

You just assume it makes our 10 man fleet as good or better than yours. Unless you are complete scrubs our 10 man isboxer fleet is not better than your 10 man human fleet in terms of character management.... not even close.

you know why you use isbotter, dont you? Otherwise you wouldnt.

KC Kamikaze wrote:

I'm gonna want a t2 tearbucket for January 2nd.

me too


What does that 3rd party software automate for me? Does it check dscan for me? Does it auto-target for me? Does it automatically pilot my ships for me in ways that eve doesn't already do? You don't like it because it's not something you want to do and because you don't want to do it in your mind that means it's not to be done.

I've multiboxed for who knows how long and only started using isboxer in the last 8 months or so... Why I do it is for the flexibility. It's also quite liberating to be your own everything. Having characters to fill all the roles you need filled to get things done is nice, and I enjoy the game more because of it. I also like helping other people and all my alts make helping other people easier as well.

If you want to talk pvp lets decide who gets the tear bucket by the size of replicators killboard at the end of jan 1st. For PVE we can compare wallets. More work, more investment, more risk, more reward.
Trogdor Losshelin
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1353 - 2014-11-26 19:34:58 UTC
white male privilege wrote:

if the multiboxer continues mining after the plex requirement is met, he starts making ten times what someone in a solo miner will


Nope, bad math. Each of his toons will make the same or less (mainly due to targeting and other delays)
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1354 - 2014-11-26 19:35:42 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:


accelerated gameplay lies in the higher efficiency of broadcasted input.
While you would loose a lot of time cycling through your clients, locking targets at each single one of them manually, firing weapons manually, you name it, isbotter removes most of this human interaction overhead (->accelerated gameplay) and gain massive advantage oversomeone not using such automation tools - this is exactly the reason why people isbotted primarily, why they want to keep it in some way or another or seeking for workarounds around now changed policy.


actually not really. I have been running 5 toons for quite a while mining in fleet. cycling through all five of them is less than a few seconds. This changes the game slightly but not by much.

Example: 10 toons mining. ISboxer's broadcast feature is prohibitive because who whats 10 toon hitting the same rock at the same time?

10 toons in pvp vs a larger ship... yes you want all 10 to target the same ship at the same time. Thus CCP rules.

There is an advantage to ISboxer .. yes. That's why it was designed O_o. This advantage WAS open to all players. Those that didn't use it shouldn't cry. Those that did.. also should have seen this coming.
Kaliba Mort
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#1355 - 2014-11-26 19:39:06 UTC
Brutus Le'montac wrote:
are logitech keyboards with macro keys now also prohibited ( if i use the 1 or more of the 18 macro keys)?

if so please send me the info i need to claim 150$ from ccp for a new keybord, or send me a gamer keyboard that does not have macro keys ccp, tyvm in advance.


You are already prohibited from using macros! If you can't constrain yourself from using macros in a game, perhaps your account should be banned sooner rather than later. And no, this has nothing to do with any keyboard.

This thread is actually quite unbelievable. Like a bunch of 12 years old are now playing Eve and their reading comprehension skills are no better than that of a 5 year old.
FunGu Arsten
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#1356 - 2014-11-26 19:39:16 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
You heard it here first, guys. Rebinding your keys is now a punishable offense.


i can still group my weapons right? We demand clarification :D
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#1357 - 2014-11-26 19:40:05 UTC
white male privilege wrote:
if the multiboxer continues mining after the plex requirement is met, he starts making ten times what someone in a solo miner will

You're saying that as if ISBoxer is some kind of special privilege that's only available to the select few Chosen Ones or something. As much as I think that alt play should have never been a thing from the beginning, the matter of the fact is that it is, and always has been, available to everyone. It's a potential that everyone is able to unlock, but few choose to do so, much in the same way that making much more money via scamming and trading is possible when compared to mining and mission-running. By your logic, we should penalize the scammers and traders because they make the same money as miners or missioners in a fraction of the time, and can use the remainder of their time to make more.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Almethea
Trans Stellar Express
#1358 - 2014-11-26 19:44:33 UTC
even if agree with isboxer was out of control.

i will just keep in mind that the only answer from ccp to probelm are nerf and quickly change policy.

few weeks ago isboxer was again confirmed by falcon, a ****-ton of thread about plex and and isboxer and ccp changed their minds.

for me it just seem like "the last captain's maneuvers before the ship sink".

there's so many thing to fix in eve.... and they fix forum ! GJ! but ok i like it !

CCP Fozzie : AFK cloaking, however, is an entirely social form of power
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#1359 - 2014-11-26 19:45:20 UTC
Kaliba Mort wrote:
You are already prohibited from using macros! If you can't constrain yourself from using macros in a game, perhaps your account should be banned sooner rather than later. And no, this has nothing to do with any keyboard.

In that case, I'd like to report myself for immediate removal from the game. Apparently, I've been breaking the law for the past ten years by binding the F1-F8 keys to a pair of thumb buttons on my mouse in order to save myself from the pain of my carpal tunnel claw hand by reaching for the buttons on my keyboard.

It's been a good run, guys. See you in Star Citizen.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Revman Zim
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#1360 - 2014-11-26 19:46:38 UTC
I applaud what CCP is doing. This change is part of a larger plan that started back when the decision was made to drop WOD and focus on EVE Online.

Instead of trying to do a half-assed job on several products, they are focusing their talents and attention on making ONE product the best it can be. (Sorry DUST). You may not agree with their changes but you cannot fault them for their attempt.

If you take a step back and look at what has been implemented and what is coming, CCP is trying to fix a lot of the imbalances in the game so it is more attractive to a larger pool of players. ISboxer programs, botting, RMT, are bad for any game. It takes away from the average player experience.

In addition, the force projection changes and upcoming SOV changes will hopefully make nullsec more diverse. All the other smaller changes are to make the game more balanced, immersive and prettier to look at. All good things.

I also believe the change in the way CCP rolls out updates was designed to accelerate this evolution.

Overall, i like where they are headed. It would be incredible if a couple years from now I log on and there are 50k players online which actually represents 50k people behind their keyboards mining, building, fighting, scamming, and most importantly, ENJOYING EVE.

tl; dr - This is a small step in a grand plan on making EVE Online attractive to a wider player base.