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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

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Agent Intrepid
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1321 - 2014-11-26 17:48:06 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
1) it might happen that less people buy PLEX due to isbot nerf.

2) Prices will most likely drop. If they drop too low because of reduced demand, people might stop selling them (read:less income for CCP) in order to acquire ingame money, because they are getting not enough ISK for the buck.

OR

3) prices wont drop all too low because enough of legit players start plexing their unsubbed alt-accounts again, who couldnt afford inflated PLEX prices anymore -> sellers receive less ISK for their PLEX and CCP wont notice anything at all.

I predict a mix of 2) and 3), less income for CCP but that will be compensated for a big part by non-isbotted players using more PLEX again at affordable prices, a pretty good deal CCP probably is willing to accept, for an improved publicity of their product not being totally infested by isbotters. Stuff like that seriously damages image of the game, presence of isbotters in turn does not improve it in any way.


Or

4. People who buy plex to sell for isk will still do it, they just have to buy more plex to get the same amount of isk = More income for CCP.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#1322 - 2014-11-26 17:49:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Robert Caldera wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

You can bind alt+tab, followed by a set of commands to one button.

and this is covered by EULA already (prohibited). so enjoy your ban.

Apparently it's not, as long as each shortcut controls input to only one client.

But even if it's made to be illegal, it can still be circumvented by using more binds. For example:

- Keypad_0 is bound to alt+tab (this is completely legit, and CCP can't do anything about this at all, ever)
- F1 is bound to double-click
- F2 is bound to cloak
- F3 is bound to bomb

Now all one has to do is hit Keypad_0 + F1 8 times, Keypad_0 + F2 8 times, etc etc. Completely legit, since all you'd be doing is rebinding your input device keys for comfort. A person should be able to hit 8 successions of 2 keys with 2 hands about as fast as 1 with 1 hand.

Updated solution: you can bind things as continuous input (hold the key to continuously send commands). Then you just need to hold down one key while pressing the other.

Robert Caldera wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
You don't need ISBoxer for this; ISBoxer just makes it a bit more convenient.


so then, we're gucci, arent we?
You're doing it without isbotter and everyone is happy.

Incorrect. I've mentioned precedent multiple times, and for some reason, you've chosen to ignore it each time.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#1323 - 2014-11-26 17:50:38 UTC
Agent Intrepid wrote:
People who buy plex to sell for isk will still do it, they just have to buy more plex to get the same amount of isk = More income for CCP.

Wow, I really haven't realized what to do with all of my lottery winnings until now. Thanks!

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Sentenced 1989
#1324 - 2014-11-26 17:54:02 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
Sentenced 1989 wrote:

Not just that this is good, but this won't hit bombers harder at all, this won't even affect bombers, since hey, for most bomber pilots nothing changes with this since we don't use 3rd party software... :D


with easy bombing I mean 1 dude controlling a bomber fleet alone.. Removal of this is good.

Assuming we're talking about the act of bombing itself:

Step 1: warp the fleet with the fleet leader
Step 2: hit F1, which is bound to alt+tab + a double click (after aiming your mouse in the direction you want to go), 8 times
Step 3: hit F2, which is bound to alt+tab + cloak module, 8 times (might not need this step with recent cloaking changes)
Step 4: hit F3, which is bound to alt+tab + bomb module, 8 times
Step 5: warp out the fleet with the fleet leader

It's even easier if you're engaging manually with your primary weapons, since EVE has shortcuts for pretty much everything, and broadcasting targets on the overview makes targeting easy.

You don't need ISBoxer for this; ISBoxer just makes it a bit more convenient.


You are missing a point here.

Bind alt+tab to (mouse/keyboard) key is ok, since it's sending command to the OS.

Bind shift+r to return drones to key should be ok, since you can remap pull drones to a single key anyways in game and then assign that key to your mouse key (for example, my mouse has key that activates comms, other for drones, one is ctrl for lock, one is alt+tab)

Bind set of commands like alt+tab+f1+f2+f3+f4+f5 to a single key is considered macro, which is banable offence on its own. It might not be enforced for now, but it will be enforced if overabused prolly. Alt+something, shift+something, ctrl+something is not macro since its just an alternate functionality of same button, but combining them into commands and triggering them all at one key press is macro.

The Incursion Guild

Epic Arc Guide
Agent Intrepid
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1325 - 2014-11-26 17:58:41 UTC
WhatHappensInJita Jitas wrote:
68 pages of botter tears, excuses, predicting the death of a 10 year old game, playing dumb like CCP is banning keyboards and OSs that have scripting built in lol <3 The botter rage has kept me warm all morning and it's raining ice outside.

I can't believe I read every comment, but it was just so engaging. Did you botters log in all your accounts and post all at once or did you whine individually from each account? I guess the latter will be good practice for when you actually have to play the game like everyone else.



I enjoy reading the most recent excuses/reasons as to why it's a bad change. Some are now claiming that they can easily circumvent any detection and hence continue using input broadcasting.

I presume that they are hoping CCP will turn around and say "Oh crap never thought of that, let's just allow it again!".

LOL. Hilarious.
Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#1326 - 2014-11-26 17:59:16 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Jean Luc Lemmont wrote:
And yet, according to the CODE members that have posted in this thread, this change will have very little impact on their suicide ganking operations.

So either they are lying or you are wrong about this being a ganking nerf.

No, I get it. Like a page or two ago I looked into this some more, and realized that the actual impact will be marginal. However, the fact that CCP is doing this to target (and this is just my own hypothesis) suicide-ganking is troubling.


The plural of anecdote is not evidence.

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#1327 - 2014-11-26 17:59:57 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

Apparently it's not, as long as each shortcut controls input to only one client.



Quote:
6 CONDUCT
A. Specifically Restricted Conduct

Your continued access to the System and license to play the Game is subject to proper conduct. Without limiting CCP's rights to control the Game environment, and the conduct of the players within that environment, CCP prohibits the following practices that CCP has determined detract from the overall user experience of the users playing the Game.

You may not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on the System.
You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played.
You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play.

bolded important parts for you.

Destiny Corrupted wrote:

But even if it's made to be illegal, it can still be circumvented by using more binds. For example:

- Keypad_0 is bound to alt+tab (this is completely legit, and CCP can't do anything about this at all, ever)
- F1 is bound to double-click
- F2 is bound to cloak
- F3 is bound to bomb

yeah you actually can circumvent macroed gameplay by actually clicking/pressing buttons by yourself, as you're supposed to do, that's fine, yet you are still violating EULA by remapping keybinds as long as you accelerate gameplay compared to regular manner of play.

Destiny Corrupted wrote:

Now all one has to do is hit Keypad_0 + F1 8 times, Keypad_0 + F2 8 times, etc etc. Completely legit, since all you'd be doing is rebinding your input device keys for comfort. A person should be able to hit 8 successions of 2 keys with 2 hands about as fast as 1 with 1 hand.

Updated solution: you can bind things as continuous input (hold the key to continuously send commands). Then you just need to hold down one key while pressing the other.

do whatever you want, its not me getting his account banned for macros.

Robert Caldera wrote:

Incorrect. I've mentioned precedent multiple times, and for some reason, you've chosen to ignore it each time.

no, you presented me with some inconsistent hurfblurf you think would be an argument for something.
Verde Minator
Crack And Cookies For Santa
#1328 - 2014-11-26 18:00:04 UTC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbIR51_J_qY


your cheater tears are alll ssoooo

sooo

soooo


soooooooooooooooooooooooo delicious...


PLEASE GIVE ME MORE NUM NUMS!!!!!!!!!!!!! MMMMMMM NUM NUM NUM NUM NUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you do realize you were cheating using this **** right?

you were doing the work of one person but reaping the rewards of however many you actually had... that's basic definition of cheating...

soooo if you caught your wife having sex with the neighbor thats okay?



your tears are delicious... give them to me...


cheaters...
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#1329 - 2014-11-26 18:02:21 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
you are still violating EULA by remapping keybinds as long as you accelerate gameplay compared to regular manner of play.

lol, what?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#1330 - 2014-11-26 18:04:38 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
you are still violating EULA by remapping keybinds as long as you accelerate gameplay compared to regular manner of play.

lol, what?



check the EULA quote I bolded.
Using keystrokes for accelerated gameplay is violation of EULA on its own.
icarus1166
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1331 - 2014-11-26 18:05:53 UTC
Ccp is playrd over by the big names in sov anyway. I just contentious proceed with what I'm doing. If they ban me I'll find another game.
ShadowandLight
Trigger Happy Capsuleers
#1332 - 2014-11-26 18:06:13 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
you are still violating EULA by remapping keybinds as long as you accelerate gameplay compared to regular manner of play.

lol, what?



check the EULA quote I bolded.
Using keystrokes for accelerated gameplay is violation of EULA on its own.


It's not accelerated, it's doing the same thing from a more convenient place.

Legacy - An EVE Online Blog

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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#1333 - 2014-11-26 18:06:31 UTC
You heard it here first, guys. Rebinding your keys is now a punishable offense.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1334 - 2014-11-26 18:11:06 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:


CCP has time and again stated that the clause is on a PER CHARACTER basis. 1/10 made me reply.


[snip]

Again, per-toon basis. If CCP is going to let us log in our set at once using ISBoxer, then this is not that big of a deal. Please, think with the head on your shoulders.


Yes and I meant it per character. A guy multi-boxing 10 accounts NOT using software like ISBoxer would acquire less as he'd be less efficient. So on a per-character basis he gets less Stuff™.

Logging in, per se, does not get you anything. Doing stuff in game very often does. Let me be quite clear here. Logging in is a NECESSARY condition for acquiring Stuff™. Logging in is not a sufficient condition--i.e. you don't log in and suddenly find your wallet fatter simply because you logged in. You don't have more ships, modules or minerals.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
white male privilege
Doomheim
#1335 - 2014-11-26 18:18:55 UTC
Multicasting allows veterans to have exponential growth. The biggest value a player can have is multiple accounts and the ability fight or PvE with all of them at the same time. Mining with 10 hulks takes the exact same time to plex all of your accounts as it does for a regular guy mining with one character to plex his one account. So after the multicaster has made his plex for the month he can then continue mining making ten times what a regular player can, or he star pvping, doing bombing runs by himself which is again an unfair multiplier of the veteran's time spent in eve.

The skill system in eve is designed so that you get diminishing returns on skillpoints. getting the last 5% of your damage takes longer than the first 20%. When that SP is instead spent on alts, that is no longer true. the veteran's PvE and combat ability grows exponentially
KC Kamikaze
Blue-Fire
#1336 - 2014-11-26 18:25:44 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

You can bind alt+tab, followed by a set of commands to one button.

and this is covered by EULA already (prohibited). so enjoy your ban.

Destiny Corrupted wrote:

You don't need ISBoxer for this; ISBoxer just makes it a bit more convenient.


so then, we're gucci, arent we?
You're doing it without isbotter and everyone is happy.



^ This guy is my favorite isboxer hater.

Accelerates gameplay would be doing something faster than you could normally do it. By this standard the speed would be measured as the amount of time it takes one account. Without broadcasts nothing we can do in isboxer will be at the speed of normal gameplay, and nothing we could do was ever faster than that anyway. Macros are not allowed but keybinds are. This is not such a huge thing to most isboxers and if the new rules make you happy then it's as you said we are gucci my friend. Pirate
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1337 - 2014-11-26 18:39:12 UTC
white male privilege wrote:
Mining with 10 hulks takes the exact same time to plex all of your accounts as it does for a regular guy mining with one character to plex his one account.



white male privilege wrote:
So after the multicaster has made his plex for the month he can then continue mining making ten times what a regular player can, or he star pvping, doing bombing runs by himself which is again an unfair multiplier of the veteran's time spent in eve.


Ok you've just contradicted yourself and or simply can't add numbers.

If it takes me 10 days in 1 hulk to earn a plex.. 10 accounts would take me... 10 days if all said and done were equal.

While the "miltiboxer" (not multicaster.. save that for the fantasy games) will have another 20 days to do what ever, so would the solo player.

ISboxer has very little to do with that. I can take all my toons and launch them in fleet and take out a belt. I might be able to take that belt 10 times faster than a solo player but my costs are 10 x as large.

So NO multiboxing with ISboxer with the same ships in the same situation is NOT more profitable at least when it comes to mining.

I can't speak for incursions or missioning because I haven't tried ISboxer in that situation.
Verde Minator
Crack And Cookies For Santa
#1338 - 2014-11-26 18:39:14 UTC
prime example of why it's considered cheating:

the starcraft league's back in the day, where people had build orders, hot keys, ways to micro manage their build orders and what not..

they still do. that's skill.

what you are doing is akin to the old diablo2 lod trainers and bots that would farm for gold or any other games that would farm for you on multiple machines based on colors on the screen.


completely without skill

feed me your tears please!!!!!!!!!!

you are only showing how low you had to stoop to beat people with skill, because you have none.

its like professional athletes that have to use performance enhancing drugs to beat the players that can do it because they just are that good and they train hard, and are professionals, people WITH SKILL.

to recap, micro managing used to win people money back in the star craft tournaments, still do today... a hot key not a script, but i dont think you know what im talking about because you act like you have skills and are a gamer, any tool can go do what you have done. i could teach my gramma how to do what you do.

i could probably teach a dog how to do it, im sure a monkey could.. if you could teach a monkey how to point at the dot on the screen and told it to press a key, it could make bombing runs for you...

but okay.. enough. im done.. i seriously dont think you even understand what im getting at, either you are attempting to troll even harder because you have been trolling this whole time using this type of program, or you are just not seeing what's going on here...

it's like putting peyton manning in little league basically..

are you serious guys? your going to complain?

just .. yes please do complain, this is the best, the best fun ive had in a week or two.. maybe.. lolz!!!!!!!!
dave fromheadoffice
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1339 - 2014-11-26 18:40:27 UTC
Want to buy tech 2 bucket for all these tears, my tech 1 bucket has overflown
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#1340 - 2014-11-26 18:49:22 UTC
Alruan Shadowborn wrote:

I have engineered what I hope will prove to be a vaccine against the virus, and with the current production cycle planned, it should commence distribution from 1 January YC117. Given the concern around this virus and the power it could grant to one person if harnessed, vaccination will be compulsory, and conducted in top secret. It should not be too hard to have our agents install Aerosol units on every ship in the cluster when they dock.



YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RPing Loop hole for isboxing supers :) Bring it on.

:)
:)
:)