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(Triage-)Carrier buff
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Neo Agricola
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-12-15 14:20:20 UTC
Hi Guys,

what do you think regarding a (Triage-) Carrier buff?
Currently the Archon is imho the only Carrier who is able to do his job. Every other carrier is having to much Fitting issues..

So I'm askin what do you think: would it be better to make every carrier able to fit:
High: 3x Cap Remote Reps, 1x Cap. Cap Transfer, 1x Triage
+ 2 Local Cap Reps + Tank + Cap Recharge.
(+ adjust Cap so they can run a decent time even in Triage)


What I dont want: every carrier is the same. I dont have a problem with "Archon is tanking 20-50% more than every other carrier", because my Thanni has bonus to armor and shield transfer.

Any thoughts?

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Zi'Boo
Zi'Corp
#2 - 2011-12-15 14:44:04 UTC
I was thinking about this today.
What I would suggest:
1. Fix carriers so they can be fit in similar way to the archon (so for chimera for example 3 shield transporters, energy transfer, triage and local shield tank of at least cap SB, SBA and an invul, nidhogur and thanatos with at least 3 reps of either type and local tank)

2. change the nidhogur and thanatos in similar way that scimitar and oneiros are different from guardian/basilisk. What I was thinking about would be move one high on those two carriers to either low or mid (low on thanny mid on niddy, for example) or add one high on chimera / archon add one low / mid on thanny / niddy.

3. Modify cap flux coils - either change them into low slot cap recharger (so just 20% cap recharge bonus and no penalty for t2) or reduce the cap penalty on them.
Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#3 - 2011-12-15 14:50:53 UTC
Zi'Boo wrote:
I was thinking about this today.
What I would suggest:
1. Fix carriers so they can be fit in similar way to the archon (so for chimera for example 3 shield transporters, energy transfer, triage and local shield tank of at least cap SB, SBA and an invul, nidhogur and thanatos with at least 3 reps of either type and local tank)

2. change the nidhogur and thanatos in similar way that scimitar and oneiros are different from guardian/basilisk. What I was thinking about would be move one high on those two carriers to either low or mid (low on thanny mid on niddy, for example) or add one high on chimera / archon add one low / mid on thanny / niddy.

3. Modify cap flux coils - either change them into low slot cap recharger (so just 20% cap recharge bonus and no penalty for t2) or reduce the cap penalty on them.


Oh Yeah, I bet you did! I bet you where thinking about flux coils all day weren't you you naughty little minx, you!

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
Zi'Boo
Zi'Corp
#4 - 2011-12-15 15:01:17 UTC
Ciar Meara wrote:

Oh Yeah, I bet you did! I bet you where thinking about flux coils all day weren't you you naughty little minx, you!


Not all day, but I was trying to come up with some fits that got enbled by the new genolution implants, including a triage shield tanking, shield transfering niddy, which gets it's tank ruined by the CPR's and CFCs are just crap.
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2011-12-15 15:06:15 UTC
reworking carriers or trigae mode per se would imo be pretty risky and a little over the top...

but the T2 triage mod is lackluster (compared to T2 siege mod) and could probably be modified to make "better" triage fittings possible.
Neo Agricola
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-12-15 15:15:26 UTC
Florestan Bronstein wrote:
reworking carriers or trigae mode per se would imo be pretty risky and a little over the top...

but the T2 triage mod is lackluster (compared to T2 siege mod) and could probably be modified to make "better" triage fittings possible.

I think a little tweek on the PG/CPU for each Carrier would do the trick (perhaps even a little change to cap recharge / cap amount).

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Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#7 - 2011-12-15 15:28:34 UTC
Neo Agricola wrote:
Hi Guys,

what do you think regarding a (Triage-) Carrier buff?
Currently the Archon is imho the only Carrier who is able to do his job. Every other carrier is having to much Fitting issues..

This is not true. The thanatos also works (although at 100% grid).


Quote:
So I'm askin what do you think: would it be better to make every carrier able to fit:
High: 3x Cap Remote Reps, 1x Cap. Cap Transfer, 1x Triage
+ 2 Local Cap Reps + Tank + Cap Recharge.
(+ adjust Cap so they can run a decent time even in Triage)

You are too specific.

I think they should fit triage, 3x main capital logistics module, 1x secondary logistics module (depending on bonuses). So 3 armor, 1 cap for archon, 3 shield 1 cap for chimera, 3 armor 1 shield thanatos, and probably either combination, or 2/2 for nidhoggur.

For local tank, it doesn't make sense to fit 2 shield boosters. But they should have enough grid/cpu for a 4-5 slot tank.

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rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#8 - 2011-12-15 15:35:34 UTC
I almost dont like that idea mainly that I dont want to be a healer whne I fly a carrier, and that buff would push everyone more into that role. Too tired of wow for me to want to do that.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Neo Agricola
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-12-15 15:40:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Neo Agricola
Jack Dant wrote:
Neo Agricola wrote:
Hi Guys,

what do you think regarding a (Triage-) Carrier buff?
Currently the Archon is imho the only Carrier who is able to do his job. Every other carrier is having to much Fitting issues..

This is not true. The thanatos also works (although at 100% grid).

can you please provide me with a fit for the thani with 4 reps of the same kind + triage or 3 reps(of the same kind) with energy transfer + triage
and local tank of the same kind? (o.c. one which you would use for fighting)

Jack Dant wrote:

Quote:
So I'm askin what do you think: would it be better to make every carrier able to fit:
High: 3x Cap Remote Reps, 1x Cap. Cap Transfer, 1x Triage
+ 2 Local Cap Reps + Tank + Cap Recharge.
(+ adjust Cap so they can run a decent time even in Triage)

You are too specific.

I think they should fit triage, 3x main capital logistics module, 1x secondary logistics module (depending on bonuses). So 3 armor, 1 cap for archon, 3 shield 1 cap for chimera, 3 armor 1 shield thanatos, and probably either combination, or 2/2 for nidhoggur.

For local tank, it doesn't make sense to fit 2 shield boosters. But they should have enough grid/cpu for a 4-5 slot tank.


Off course, I should fitt 3 cap remote armor repairs and 1 cap remote shild transfer + triage for a armor gang. how could i forget that.
A fit like that would work for pos / station repping o.c. but i want to get with this ship in a fight and do a decent job.

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Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#10 - 2011-12-15 16:06:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Dant
Neo Agricola wrote:
Off course, I should fitt 3 cap remote armor repairs and 1 cap remote shild transfer + triage for a armor gang. how could i forget that.
A fit like that would work for pos / station repping o.c. but i want to get with this ship in a fight and do a decent job. And i dont want to find my fit in a fail-fit thread where everyone and his mother is loughing at that Idiot with shield transfers for an armor gang...

I've heard of people using a single shield rep successfully in armor gangs.

Shield transport and booster activates at the start of the cycle, and armor at the end of if. It's not unusual for armor logis to lock a target only to see it die before the reps finish the cycle. With one shield rep, you engage it just after locking, instantly giving the target 3k shield buffer to buy time for your armor reps to kick in.

It's one theory, and I'm not sure it's any worse than an unbonused cap transfer (15km max range) or an extra armor rep you don't have the cap to run. Even an archon can only run 4 reps for something like a minute, and that's from full cap.

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Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#11 - 2011-12-15 17:05:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Ammzi
rodyas wrote:
I almost dont like that idea mainly that I dont want to be a healer whne I fly a carrier, and that buff would push everyone more into that role. Too tired of wow for me to want to do that.


Lol wut - why don't you just fly a dreadnought then?
What you're saying makes as much sense as saying "I don't wanna fit tackle on my HIC".
Neo Agricola
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-12-15 17:11:13 UTC
Jack Dant wrote:
I've heard of people using a single shield rep successfully in armor gangs.

Shield transport and booster activates at the start of the cycle, and armor at the end of if. It's not unusual for armor logis to lock a target only to see it die before the reps finish the cycle. With one shield rep, you engage it just after locking, instantly giving the target 3k shield buffer to buy time for your armor reps to kick in.

It's one theory, and I'm not sure it's any worse than an unbonused cap transfer (15km max range) or an extra armor rep you don't have the cap to run. Even an archon can only run 4 reps for something like a minute, and that's from full cap.


Sounds valid.
thx. at least i learned something new... (that people are using it that way)

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Svennig
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2011-12-15 17:46:33 UTC
Remove the penalty for Capacitor Power Relay IIs.

Reduce the CPU need of CSTs by about 25%-30%, reduce the CPU need of CSB by 60% (I'm not even kidding, that's how unbalanced they are) .

After that, you're mostly done here. Things will fallout in the wash. The CST change fixes the nid and the chimera, the CSB change fixes the chimera, the CPR change fixes the chimera a bit more.
Svennig
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2011-12-15 17:50:49 UTC
Jack Dant wrote:


I think they should fit triage, 3x main capital logistics module, 1x secondary logistics module (depending on bonuses). So 3 armor, 1 cap for archon, 3 shield 1 cap for chimera, 3 armor 1 shield thanatos, and probably either combination, or 2/2 for nidhoggur.

For local tank, it doesn't make sense to fit 2 shield boosters. But they should have enough grid/cpu for a 4-5 slot tank.


The nidhoggur is the reppy carrier. It should be flexible enough to fit anything from four armor to four shield without a problem.
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#15 - 2011-12-15 18:30:55 UTC
Svennig wrote:
Reduce the CPU need of CSTs by about 25%-30%, reduce the CPU need of CSB by 60% (I'm not even kidding, that's how unbalanced they are) .

If you do that to CSB, they'll use less CPU than an X-Large booster Big smile At all other sizes, CPU doubles over the previous size, but the capital one only gets 50% over XL.

The CST also follows a pattern, each level takes 35 more CPU than previous.

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Svennig
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2011-12-15 21:31:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Svennig
Jack Dant wrote:
Svennig wrote:
Reduce the CPU need of CSTs by about 25%-30%, reduce the CPU need of CSB by 60% (I'm not even kidding, that's how unbalanced they are) .

If you do that to CSB, they'll use less CPU than an X-Large booster Big smile At all other sizes, CPU doubles over the previous size, but the capital one only gets 50% over XL.

The CST also follows a pattern, each level takes 35 more CPU than previous.


vOv. I don't care about CCP's patterns all that much.

The archon has 968.8 powergrid, and each capital armor repairer uses 125. The CARs are 150. What's more, the other mods you use need practically no PG, just CPU, and you've got boatloads of CPU to spare.

The chimera has 1,031 CPU, and each capital shield booster uses 300. The CSTs are 175. So you're already ******. What's more, the other mods you use STILL NEED CPU, and they need more than the armour ones. So you're ****** from both sides.
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#17 - 2011-12-15 21:42:35 UTC
Svennig wrote:
[quote=Jack Dant]The chimera has 1,031 CPU, and each capital shield booster uses 300. The CSTs are 175. So you're already ******. What's more, the other mods you use STILL NEED CPU, and they need more than the armour ones. So you're ****** from both sides.

Oh, I agree, but the solution is to give it more CPU, not make the mods cheaper to fit.

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Svennig
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2011-12-15 21:55:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Svennig
Jack Dant wrote:

Oh, I agree, but the solution is to give it more CPU, not make the mods cheaper to fit.


The only reason I dislike this approach is because it's not just the chimera that has issues. The nidhoggur has trouble fitting a decent rack of CSTs, and doesn't shield tank because of CPU issues (amongst others). Neither does the thanatos really have the capability to run a decent rack.

This points to a problem with the mods, unless we're willing to buff all the ships by a lot. And I mean a lot. Nidhoggur needs a 25-30% boost to CPU. Chimera needs a 50% boost to be anywhere close to the archon in terms of tank under triage (and even then, it's got nothing like the cap of the archon). The thanatos needs a 20-25% boost.

Edit: chimera can come down to 26% boost if the crippling restrictions on shield boost from CPRIIs go away. And even if you do that, you've still got less tank and less cap than an archon
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#19 - 2011-12-15 21:59:34 UTC
Zi'Boo wrote:
Ciar Meara wrote:

Oh Yeah, I bet you did! I bet you where thinking about flux coils all day weren't you you naughty little minx, you!


Not all day, but I was trying to come up with some fits that got enbled by the new genolution implants, including a triage shield tanking, shield transfering niddy, which gets it's tank ruined by the CPR's and CFCs are just crap.


Did you know that the shield boosting penalty from CPRs is subject to a stacking penalty?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Saramiir
Norsk Lakseoppdrett
#20 - 2011-12-24 14:13:50 UTC
Some triage carrier balance would be nice. And Thanny is ass.

Either remove the drone damage bonus and add armor resist bonus(ohnoes archon copy!) or boost the drone damage bonus.
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