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CCP Fixing Gallente Soon?

Author
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2011-12-15 21:03:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Hungry Eyes
Just wondering what's on the drawing board. You buffed hybrids a little bit, but most Gallente ships and their bonuses are still messed up. things to address:

- shield vs. armor tank; armor rigs
(armor tanking is generally incompatible with mobility and high dps because of speed penalties and low slot usage; everyone may be attempting to fly half-assed shield tanks, but the bonuses and slots dont match)
- speed
- active vs passive tanking
- ammo
- medium hybrids (especially rails; they are awful; there isnt a single ship that can setup a decent tank with a rack of 250mm's)

over the last 3 years, Gallente ships have been getting torn apart by nano Drakes and Canes (for example). Gallente have the worst possible damage projection in the game. will this race's ships become viable once again (in comparison to the rest), or do you guys need more metrics (serious question) ?

p.s. Crucible has been a much appreciated expansion. however, it did next to nothing to address the rampant imbalances in the game (only Tornadoes and Oracles are being used effectively, while the other two are gimps). will you be posting updates on what you're working on, and what's on the drawing board? this is pretty high priority stuff because EVE is about pee vee pee. in fact, i cant imagine what can be more important in terms of the game's new direction.
mkint
#2 - 2011-12-15 21:09:18 UTC
Hungry Eyes wrote:
Just wondering what's on the drawing board. You buffed hybrids a little bit, but most Gallente ships and their bonuses are still messed up. things to address:

- shield vs. armor tank; armor rigs
(armor tanking is generally incompatible with mobility and high dps because of speed penalties and low slot usage; everyone may be attempting to fly half-assed shield tanks, but the bonuses and slots dont match)
- speed
- active vs passive tanking
- ammo
- medium hybrids (especially rails; they are awful; there isnt a single ship that can setup a decent tank with a rack of 250mm's)

over the last 3 years, Gallente ships have been getting torn apart by nano Drakes and Canes (for example). Gallente have the worst possible damage projection in the game. will this race's ships become viable once again (in comparison to the rest), or do you guys need more metrics (serious question) ?

I think Gallente not even being in the top 50 killers lists that CCP keeps putting together should be a pretty definitive metric if you ask me. Rebalances that completely fail to address what exactly was wrong won't bring them up to par.

also, lol @ the thought of ANY medium rail on (much less at the top of) ANY top killers list. Seriously, that's hilarious right there.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2011-12-15 21:12:13 UTC
there's absolutely no reason why rails should not be able to do what arties and pulses can.
Klown Walk
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-12-15 21:13:12 UTC
Works fine for me.
Alara IonStorm
#5 - 2011-12-15 21:14:58 UTC
Removing Rig Penalties would be a big start.

Between Gallente Armor Ships with Armor Rigs that don't hurt there Speed, Astronautics Rigs that increase it w/o hurting there tank and Hybrid Rigs that can be fit with a rack of Neutrons well that would definitely help a lot.

As long as Arties with there Massive Alpha and Selectable Dmg Types and Scorch that has the fleet range with greater tracking and Dmg Exist then Rails and Beams will always be a foot note.
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-12-15 21:21:15 UTC
Dear devs, can you make rigs not stacking penalized against modules?

Every module is stacking penalized. But rigs are modifications to ship's hulls itself, this is why they should not be affected by modules. It will make every other rig more useful than plain armor rigs.

Because armor rigs don't have serious drawbacks and give maximum result with less penalty, because they affect one of four resists, modules plug half of it and rigs cover holes.

Possibly resist rigs should give rainbow protection in smaller amounts. Max hit points rigs are too good. Active tanking rigs are not too popular.

85% of the rigs have no use, time to change bonuses and redesign the concept once again

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2011-12-15 21:23:12 UTC
Hungry Eyes wrote:
there's absolutely no reason why rails should not be able to do what arties and pulses can.


*cough* Beams *cough*

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Hershman
Creepers Corporation
#8 - 2011-12-15 21:25:28 UTC
Drones are kinda cool

I play EVE every day! Follow me at http://www.twitch.tv/matthershman

Alara IonStorm
#9 - 2011-12-15 21:26:22 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Hungry Eyes wrote:
there's absolutely no reason why rails should not be able to do what arties and pulses can.


*cough* Beams *cough*

Scorch is the new Beams.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2011-12-15 21:26:52 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Removing Rig Penalties would be a big start.

Between Gallente Armor Ships with Armor Rigs that don't hurt there Speed, Astronautics Rigs that increase it w/o hurting there tank and Hybrid Rigs that can be fit with a rack of Neutrons well that would definitely help a lot.

As long as Arties with there Massive Alpha and Selectable Dmg Types and Scorch that has the fleet range with greater tracking and Dmg Exist then Rails and Beams will always be a foot note.

im al for modifing scorch, it IS a little ridiculous in some cases, so long as pulses themselves ent changed, just the T2 ammos (I REALLY dont wanna have to rethink my hrribly precariously cpu/pg balanced fits)
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#11 - 2011-12-15 21:46:20 UTC
CCP did a partial rebalance but it needs more work. The better fitting and power use requirements were great on hybrids, 10% damage increase, a start, maybe another 5 %

however its the mass addition from MWD and AB that cause problems with acceleration. The deimos, brutix, hyperion should have a bonus that removes the mass addition penalty or reduces it.

oh and nothing wrong with the ammo now.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.

Crias Taylor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-12-15 22:37:23 UTC
Hungry Eyes wrote:
there's absolutely no reason why rails should not be able to do what arties and pulses can.


Well the fact you put a close range gun in with long range guns should tell you pulse is pretty broken. 
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#13 - 2011-12-15 22:51:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
I'd still like to see Hybrids redesigned.

Blasters = Slow rate of fire, HUGE alpha.
Rails = Very high rate of fire, low alpha, good DPS.

Basically the exact opposite of Auto Cannon and Artillery.

For mobility:

Higher acceleration.


For defense 2 possibilities come to mind.

Hyper small sig radius (explained by their more "organic" lines)
Structure tanking that isn't actually a joke. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#14 - 2011-12-15 23:13:24 UTC
Opertone wrote:
Dear devs, can you make rigs not stacking penalized against modules?

Every module is stacking penalized. But rigs are modifications to ship's hulls itself, this is why they should not be affected by modules. It will make every other rig more useful than plain armor rigs.

Because armor rigs don't have serious drawbacks and give maximum result with less penalty, because they affect one of four resists, modules plug half of it and rigs cover holes.

Possibly resist rigs should give rainbow protection in smaller amounts. Max hit points rigs are too good. Active tanking rigs are not too popular.

85% of the rigs have no use, time to change bonuses and redesign the concept once again


I suggested that DPS rigs not be stacking penalized a week or so ago and got flamed to hell for it lol. Personally, I think it's a great idea to make the DPS rigs unique in that manner.
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#15 - 2011-12-15 23:14:34 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
I'd still like to see Hybrids redesigned.

Blasters = Slow rate of fire, HUGE alpha.
Rails = Very high rate of fire, low alpha, good DPS.

Basically the exact opposite of Auto Cannon and Artillery.

For mobility:

Higher acceleration.


For defense 2 possibilities come to mind.

Hyper small sig radius (explained by their more "organic" lines)
Structure tanking that isn't actually a joke. Smile


The above Blaster/Rail ideas are pretty interesting. I'd be curious to see how an ultra-high volley blaster setup works out.
mkint
#16 - 2011-12-15 23:24:46 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
I'd still like to see Hybrids redesigned.

Blasters = Slow rate of fire, HUGE alpha.
Rails = Very high rate of fire, low alpha, good DPS.

Basically the exact opposite of Auto Cannon and Artillery.

For mobility:

Higher acceleration.


For defense 2 possibilities come to mind.

Hyper small sig radius (explained by their more "organic" lines)
Structure tanking that isn't actually a joke. Smile

rate of fire is actually an interesting way to justify bringing ranges back into line.

I'd propose that much of what ought to happen for balance is to consider ewar (inspired by your sig radius idea)...

Firstly, ECM needs to be changed to be a 100% effective -1 target slot instead of chance based -all target slots. Gallente ships should have a base -1 target slot compared to other races, but fast locking speed/range to make up for it (ECCM would be +1 target slot making it always useful), as that would be a reasonable explanation as to why caldari would use an ewar that's more effective versus gallente.

Caldari should have slower locking speeds and lower base targeting range, making damps most effective versus caldari

Amarr should have a more moderate sig radius and minmatar guns a bigger sig resolution (maybe as well as a slight increase in DPS to make up for it), so paints become more of a necessity against Amarr.

Minmatar guns, while high in DPS should also have low tracking and more moderate range, making tracking disruptors a vital tool to shut them down.

Those balances are probably flawed in general, but it seems that rock/paper/scissors through ewar might be the way to balance out the races. This doesn't go into secondary ewar, which should probably be adjusted a bit to make it more effective versus secondary opponents... give caldari the web bonus to counter minmatar, give minmatar a remote ECCM bonus (or maybe a brand new type altogether) to counter caldari, give gallente the neut/vamp bonus to counter the cap hungry amarr, give amarr the scram bonus to counter MWD heavy gallente... secondary bonuses are so freakin' broken right now. :( Fixing secondary ewar would have a lot more fallout, but face it... the current setup does not make any sense at all regarding balance.

Balanced ewar would make weapons a secondary consideration, which imo, is how it should be.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#17 - 2011-12-15 23:58:53 UTC
mkint wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
I'd still like to see Hybrids redesigned.

Blasters = Slow rate of fire, HUGE alpha.
Rails = Very high rate of fire, low alpha, good DPS.

Basically the exact opposite of Auto Cannon and Artillery.

For mobility:

Higher acceleration.


For defense 2 possibilities come to mind.

Hyper small sig radius (explained by their more "organic" lines)
Structure tanking that isn't actually a joke. Smile

rate of fire is actually an interesting way to justify bringing ranges back into line.

I'd propose that much of what ought to happen for balance is to consider ewar (inspired by your sig radius idea)...

Firstly, ECM needs to be changed to be a 100% effective -1 target slot instead of chance based -all target slots. .


So... basically useless?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Jask Avan
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2011-12-16 00:09:25 UTC
mkint wrote:
[quote=Ranger 1]Caldari should have slower locking speeds and lower base targeting range, making damps most effective versus caldari

The race that specializes in rails and missiles, I.E. the longest range weapons in the game... should have the shortest targeting range?
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2011-12-16 00:15:34 UTC
DEVs, boost e-war FFS.

DAMPs were meant to be used as a counter for sniping, bring damps back. With e-war game may become varied, not DMG + Hitpoints festival.

Give drone bonuses to e-war drones on specialized drone ships. Give more damage to Rail Guns, but make snipers susceptible to sensor damps.

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#20 - 2011-12-16 00:19:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Jask Avan wrote:
mkint wrote:
[quote=Ranger 1]Caldari should have slower locking speeds and lower base targeting range, making damps most effective versus caldari

The race that specializes in rails and missiles, I.E. the longest range weapons in the game... should have the shortest targeting range?


I like a lot of the theory behind mkints proposal, justification should be somewhat apparent as to why a races EW capabilities have specialized the way they have. To attain that might require some reshuffling, or perhaps reworking the underlying mechanics of how the EW works specifically.

If Caldari (for example) could retain their longer lock range, but be more vulnerable to the range decreasing effect of Sensor Damps than other races due to how they worked....

I would require a great deal of thought, but it is a worthy goal. It would be nice to look at a races strengths and see a logical cause/effect relationship as to why it developed that way based on who their enemies are.

Edit: Another reason to consider digging this deep into the mechanics of things would be that weapon balance and EW balance between the various races have always had fundamental issues. It might be wise to bite the bullet and devote most of an expansion into reworking both systems to work hand in glove in a logical fashion.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

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