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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

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Dominique Vasilkovsky
#861 - 2014-11-25 23:06:32 UTC
Good, about time.
Iyokus Patrouette
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#862 - 2014-11-25 23:06:32 UTC
Where is this list of Do's and Don'ts regarding Multi... whatever we're calling it.

Kind of seems everything technically has an impact on the game, i'm curious where they're drawing the lines in the sand on this.

---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----

Abernie
Thoroughly Incompetent
#863 - 2014-11-25 23:07:58 UTC
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:
Where is this list of Do's and Don'ts regarding Multi... whatever we're calling it.

Kind of seems everything technically has an impact on the game, i'm curious where they're drawing the lines in the sand on this.

Am I going to get banned? - The Flowchart
ashley Eoner
#864 - 2014-11-25 23:08:09 UTC
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
To Steve Ronuken: CCP are going to get flooded with requests asking if the for example twelve accounts that just logged on and started mining together are breaking the rules etc.

Why should it be legal to log them on together using ISBoxer but illegal to start the miners mining rocks ? Don't get me wrong - I agree with most people that ISBoxer use should be prohibited altogether - so it should be fairly obvious to make a clean break and remove all use of ISBoxer type software. After all it probably is a major factor in the current ISK value of PLEX.

Isboxers had very little to do with isk value of plex. Well before isboxers were even noticed plex had already established a history of rising in value.

If you look at the chinese server our plex is actually way undervalued right now.



If you think banning isboxer is going to suddenly stop plex from ever rising in value you're deluded.
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#865 - 2014-11-25 23:08:36 UTC
Querns wrote:
Bethan Le Troix wrote:

Wouldn't it be clearer and better just to say all use of ISBoxer & similar software is against the EULA and have done with it ??

ISBoxer isn't the only software that allows input multiplexing. Banning ISBoxer outright as the sole action of the change would just make everyone move over to another brand of software that does the same thing.


Well obviously all types of software that do the same activity would be banned. Don't split hairs.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#866 - 2014-11-25 23:09:19 UTC
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
To Steve Ronuken: CCP are going to get flooded with requests asking if the for example twelve accounts that just logged on and started mining together are breaking the rules etc.

Why should it be legal to log them on together using ISBoxer but illegal to start the miners mining rocks ? Don't get me wrong - I agree with most people that ISBoxer use should be prohibited altogether - so it should be fairly obvious to make a clean break and remove all use of ISBoxer type software. After all it probably is a major factor in the current ISK value of PLEX.



Because CCp cannot detect anyoen using any software PRIOR to you loggin in into the game. So they cannot enforce anythign that is not giving commands to the client.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#867 - 2014-11-25 23:09:43 UTC
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
To Steve Ronuken: CCP are going to get flooded with requests asking if the for example twelve accounts that just logged on and started mining together are breaking the rules etc.

Why should it be legal to log them on together using ISBoxer but illegal to start the miners mining rocks ? Don't get me wrong - I agree with most people that ISBoxer use should be prohibited altogether - so it should be fairly obvious to make a clean break and remove all use of ISBoxer type software. After all it probably is a major factor in the current ISK value of PLEX.

The idea is that logging pilots in and adjusting screens and such has no direct impact on gameplay. The actions commuted using broadcast afterwords are the issue they want to prohibit if I understand correctly.
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#868 - 2014-11-25 23:10:01 UTC
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
To Steve Ronuken: CCP are going to get flooded with requests asking if the for example twelve accounts that just logged on and started mining together are breaking the rules etc.

Why should it be legal to log them on together using ISBoxer but illegal to start the miners mining rocks ? Don't get me wrong - I agree with most people that ISBoxer use should be prohibited altogether - so it should be fairly obvious to make a clean break and remove all use of ISBoxer type software. After all it probably is a major factor in the current ISK value of PLEX.


Because stating eve clients and typing the password in across all accounts and getting to login screens does not effect anything IN GAME.
Would dumb people stop going on about fleet warp too as its the most ******** thing in this whole topic.
Ursula Thrace
Dreamland Augmented Consortium
#869 - 2014-11-25 23:10:13 UTC
i, for one, am glad CCP will be watching for these types of activities and taking the appropriate actions. Big smile

eve online original intro
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#870 - 2014-11-25 23:10:42 UTC
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
Querns wrote:
Bethan Le Troix wrote:

Wouldn't it be clearer and better just to say all use of ISBoxer & similar software is against the EULA and have done with it ??

ISBoxer isn't the only software that allows input multiplexing. Banning ISBoxer outright as the sole action of the change would just make everyone move over to another brand of software that does the same thing.


Well obviously all types of software that do the same activity would be banned. Don't split hairs.

That is essentially what is being proposed, right now. It has the bonus of not having to enumerate the individual varieties of software, and it leaves ISBoxer's legitimate uses intact. It's a good compromise.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#871 - 2014-11-25 23:11:06 UTC
speaking of things that should be in the client, here's an idea players might want to get behind. it involves expanding the automation within the client to support all fleet roles that will be eliminated as a result of this ban. I am accused several times in the thread for trolling, but it is a very serious suggestion.

basically, the FC and other fleet command positions will have full control of their leadership tree.

oddly enough, I was about to install ISBoxer for the first time today. I woke up to the TMC article about this announcement.

you could say I'm feeling right as rain right now.

to anyone concerned about the loss of control without ISBoxer: the days of 50-boxing may be gone, but 10-boxing is very doable without ISBoxer, it just takes practice.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#872 - 2014-11-25 23:11:16 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
To Steve Ronuken: CCP are going to get flooded with requests asking if the for example twelve accounts that just logged on and started mining together are breaking the rules etc.

Why should it be legal to log them on together using ISBoxer but illegal to start the miners mining rocks ? Don't get me wrong - I agree with most people that ISBoxer use should be prohibited altogether - so it should be fairly obvious to make a clean break and remove all use of ISBoxer type software. After all it probably is a major factor in the current ISK value of PLEX.

The idea is that logging pilots in and adjusting screens and such has no direct impact on gameplay. The actions commuted using broadcast afterwords are the issue they want to prohibit if I understand correctly.


Yes .But it would much clearer to just remove legal use of any such software. It's not really playing the game is.it. It's one step away from RMT in a way.
Iyokus Patrouette
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#873 - 2014-11-25 23:11:59 UTC
Abernie wrote:
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:
Where is this list of Do's and Don'ts regarding Multi... whatever we're calling it.

Kind of seems everything technically has an impact on the game, i'm curious where they're drawing the lines in the sand on this.

Am I going to get banned? - The Flowchart


Ah, not quite what i was chasing but answers enough. Seems silly, just say no IS Boxer and avoid all this beating around bushes.

---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----

James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#874 - 2014-11-25 23:14:01 UTC
I'm wondering just how granular the logs are for this sort of thing.
If they're only in single ticks, then its gonna have serious issues with people who can just alt tab harder.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Syllviaa
Hole Exploitation Inc.
#875 - 2014-11-25 23:14:07 UTC
Tappits wrote:
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
To Steve Ronuken: CCP are going to get flooded with requests asking if the for example twelve accounts that just logged on and started mining together are breaking the rules etc.

Why should it be legal to log them on together using ISBoxer but illegal to start the miners mining rocks ? Don't get me wrong - I agree with most people that ISBoxer use should be prohibited altogether - so it should be fairly obvious to make a clean break and remove all use of ISBoxer type software. After all it probably is a major factor in the current ISK value of PLEX.


Because stating eve clients and typing the password in across all accounts and getting to login screens does not effect anything IN GAME.
Would dumb people stop going on about fleet warp too as its the most ******** thing in this whole topic.


CCP needs to take a step back and re-evaluate what is fair here. All automation should be banned including but not limited to broadcast inputs, fleet warp, drone assignment and module auto repeating.

RIP Richard A. Butt
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#876 - 2014-11-25 23:14:15 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
speaking of things that should be in the client, here's an idea players might want to get behind. it involves expanding the automation within the client to support all fleet roles that will be eliminated as a result of this ban. I am accused several times in the thread for trolling, but it is a very serious suggestion.

basically, the FC and other fleet command positions will have full control of their leadership tree.

oddly enough, I was about to install ISBoxer for the first time today. I woke up to the TMC article about this announcement.

you could say I'm feeling right as rain right now.

to anyone concerned about the loss of control without ISBoxer: the days of 50-boxing may be gone, but 10-boxing is very doable without ISBoxer, it just takes practice.


you know drone mass assign was removed to make more people play and not having them all just twisting thumbs while the guy with all drones assigned blaps things. with that in mind how likely do you think is your dreaming in the link?
Lelob
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#877 - 2014-11-25 23:14:16 UTC
It is about time that CCP finally removed this garbage. Nullsec fleets were made x10 worse by the simple existence of 1 person who could multibox 7 bombers and have them all drop bombs on you in absolute perfect timing and then warp off, killing your fleet of w/e. It was blatantly unfair and it changed the meta for the worse fairly significantly. It also sucked to see incursion runners having to compete against someone who could beat them in t1 domis with the odd t2 mods at best while they were in t3's/faction bs with all sorts of faction mods etc. I would love it if CCP could add the windows functionality of isboxer into EVE but yeah, thanks for getting rid of something that was inherenly imba.
Lengurathmir Elinor
Jovian Labs
Jovian Enterprises
#878 - 2014-11-25 23:14:19 UTC
Good job, I fully support this!
Somatic Neuron
Masterwork Productions Inc
#879 - 2014-11-25 23:15:04 UTC
I am assuming that you have the means to detect multiplexing and such already...so how many accounts does this currently have the potential to affect?
ashley Eoner
#880 - 2014-11-25 23:15:28 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
James Baboli wrote:
I'm wondering just how granular the logs are for this sort of thing.
If they're only in single ticks, then its gonna have serious issues with people who can just alt tab harder.

I alt tab hard cause I've been multiboxing games since the meridian 59 era. I really learned the skill during lineage 2 though where I would run parties and fight pvp on my own with alts. No automation at all just extra keyboards and screens.


I'm actually worried that I'll be banned if I try to mine with my setup using alt tab. I mean really when you're mining there's nothing beyond hitting f1 occasionally.


I also sometimes experience huge lag spikes when playing the game and I'm worried that the rush of incoming packets to the server will look like I'm using isboxer or something. Especially during the DDoS days you could tell when all the packets suddenly started arriving as all the screens would kind of speed up to catch up to the server.