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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#841 - 2014-11-25 22:51:39 UTC
Godren Storm wrote:
Fleet Warp would fall under these guidelines. Also the signing of drones to another player would fall under this outline. One account broadcasting a single action to more than one accounts. Food for thought.



However, fleet warp isn't using third party software to do so.

It's not food for thought at all. It's a disingenuous attempt to derail this.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#842 - 2014-11-25 22:52:30 UTC
Jared Noan wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:


This includes, but isn’t limited to:

• Activation and control of ships and modules
• Navigation and movement within the EVE universe
• Movement of assets and items within the EVE universe
• Interaction with other characters

Examples of allowed Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing are actions taken that do not have an impact on the EVE universe and are carried out for convenience:



Reading into this, fleet warping could be considered a banable offence.

You want to take out the lawyer talk, so will I.



The major poitn you miss is that he is not a lawyer.. he is the JUDGE.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#843 - 2014-11-25 22:52:36 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
virm pasuul wrote:

-snip

From your post it's difficult to work out which side of the fence you sit on.
You start off seeming to critcize the change.
You then go on to make a load of points illustrating why the change is a good thing for Eve.
Could you clarify please?


I'm personally against the change completely. I'm more annoyed at the lack of talk from CCP to the multibox community to see if a compromise could be reached (see: jump drives, bombers, nearly every other change) because I don't believe the current CSM has any multiboxers on it.

I would have been willing to accept a ban on using ISBoxer to PVP with the exceptions involving defending oneself from invading forces in a WH / Null site, but CCP doesn't care.


yes leaving that loop hole^wgate open wouldnt cause a lot of "fun" for all the GMs. Totally not.
Syllviaa
Hole Exploitation Inc.
#844 - 2014-11-25 22:54:19 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Yes fleet warp and more will be technically bannable under this rule change.


While I believe you're taking this route for the sake of complaining about something, you bring up an interesting point. The fleet warp mechanic is automation for everyone other than the person issuing the command. For the sake of consistency CCP should do away with this cheat as well.

RIP Richard A. Butt
Bakla Firoz
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#845 - 2014-11-25 22:54:41 UTC
I was so shocked when I found out that CCP specifically confirmed multiple times that isboxing to control multiple accounts was allowed. So why the sudden change of heart?

Nothing has changed and therefore you owe those people who have trained up 10, 20, 30, 50(?) accounts a MASSIVE apology. How about those who have recently paid for 3 month (the minimum) subscription on isboxer because you said it was okay? The very least you could do is admit you were wrong.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#846 - 2014-11-25 22:54:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
CCP Falcon wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
If you are uncertain about your Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing use-case, please get in contact with us, as we would prefer to work with members of the community to come to an amicable resolution.

What category should we petition under?

As I previously posted, I'm uncertain what "Input Broadcasting" and "Input Multiplexing" mean; are they the same thing?

I can't find any useful answer via Google either.

EULA would be a good catergory Smile

Ah, thanks! Missed it Oops

Petition sent.

I probably won't sleep until I get this clarified. The EULA prevents me from explaining why.


EDIT #1: For those wondering, I don't use IsBoxer and never have.

Edit #2: BTW, I'm all for this, but I don't want to be the Dolphin caught in the Tuna net.
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#847 - 2014-11-25 22:55:51 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Fonac wrote:
So is-boxer is banned?

edit: I Honestly dont care about is-boxer or what it can do, since i've never used it, or met anyone who uses it. But the OP is not very clear on it.



isboxer isn't banned. Some of the things isboxer can do are banned.


The OP announcement by CCP Falcon is very unclear. It does sound like if someone uses ISBoxer to log on a dozen miner accounts and start mining together 'afk' then that would be illegal after the date mentioned in the OP. ISBoxer use for mining, Incursions etc does potentially damage the in-game economy and cause bother to other peoples gameplay so going by what CCP Falcon has obliquely suggested does the announcement mean the end of this use of ISBoxer type software ?

Wouldn't it be clearer and better just to say all use of ISBoxer & similar software is against the EULA and have done with it ??

Sounds like good news to me! A rare event in New Eden.
Iudicium Vastus
Doomheim
#848 - 2014-11-25 22:55:55 UTC
Godren Storm wrote:
Fleet Warp would fall under these guidelines. Also the signing of drones to another player would fall under this outline. One account broadcasting a single action to more than one accounts. Food for thought.


Yeah, but here's the thing, Fleet warp and such are tools available within game set there by CCP themselves, while broadcasting software is a tool that is available only on your side after installation and is outside the game's commands and default tool-sets.

[u]Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW?[/u] No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too)
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#849 - 2014-11-25 22:56:04 UTC
Bakla Firoz wrote:
I was so shocked when I found out that CCP specifically confirmed multiple times that isboxing to control multiple accounts was allowed. So why the sudden change of heart?

Nothing has changed and therefore you owe those people who have trained up 10, 20, 30, 50(?) accounts a MASSIVE apology. How about those who have recently paid for 3 month (the minimum) subscription on isboxer because you said it was okay? The very least you could do is admit you were wrong.



1 month is minimum.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#850 - 2014-11-25 22:56:55 UTC
Godren Storm wrote:
Fleet Warp would fall under these guidelines. Also the signing of drones to another player would fall under this outline. One account broadcasting a single action to more than one accounts. Food for thought.

Not really. Neither of these activities is granted by using an external application — they're in the Eve client by default. As such, they don't qualify.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#851 - 2014-11-25 22:57:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Fonac wrote:
So is-boxer is banned?

edit: I Honestly dont care about is-boxer or what it can do, since i've never used it, or met anyone who uses it. But the OP is not very clear on it.



isboxer isn't banned. Some of the things isboxer can do are banned.


The OP announcement by CCP Falcon is very unclear. It does sound like if someone uses ISBoxer to log on a dozen miner accounts and start mining together 'afk' then that would be illegal after the date mentioned in the OP. ISBoxer use for mining, Incursions etc does potentially damage the in-game economy and cause bother to other peoples gameplay so going by what CCP Falcon has obliquely suggested does the announcement mean the end of this use of ISBoxer type software ?

Wouldn't it be clearer and better just to say all use of ISBoxer & similar software is against the EULA and have done with it ??

Sounds like good news to me! A rare event in New Eden.


Logging on a dozen miners: Allowed. (explicitly mentioned, in fact)

using isboxer to start all of them mining at once, with one click: Not allowed.


Isboxer has other functions, such as arranging windows to let you move your mouse less between clicks, allowed under this ruling.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Piren'e Colass
Perkone
Caldari State
#852 - 2014-11-25 22:57:51 UTC
Pretty ****** of you ccp, this has been a major playstyle for while, and it makes significant game aspects so much better. Change the rules, don't start to enforce them.
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#853 - 2014-11-25 22:58:45 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Am I too late to drink in the tears or are they all gone?


dont worry, we filled the tanks. orca size or freighter size delivery?
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#854 - 2014-11-25 22:59:24 UTC
Bethan Le Troix wrote:

Wouldn't it be clearer and better just to say all use of ISBoxer & similar software is against the EULA and have done with it ??

ISBoxer isn't the only software that allows input multiplexing. Banning ISBoxer outright as the sole action of the change would just make everyone move over to another brand of software that does the same thing.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#855 - 2014-11-25 23:00:20 UTC
Mendeli Vium wrote:
so if i understand correctly i can use IS Boxer to tile clients on my comp but not activate mods or navigate with it ?


correct.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#856 - 2014-11-25 23:00:25 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Angela Daemonic wrote:
Ohh when all these is boxers rage quit and plex prices drop... I will be in heaven.

Indeed, very quickly the volume on PLEX sales will increase again sharply due to the lower prices... however this time it will not be fueled by people that don't care if the price is too high.

Keep dreaming.


Forgotten N Forsaken wrote:
THANK YOU CCP. ABOUT TIME I.S BOXERS GOT BANNED. WOOOTT!!!!!!
You're dreaming. There's so many ways to hide it from CCP's eyes it'll still be abused. Hell Blizzard with their millions spent on warden can't even stop basic hackers and multibox programs.

If you really want them stopped then I hope you're prepared to have your system compromised by CCP so they can scan every aspect and control what you can and cannot run.

Oh, I have no doubt counters will be created... and those counters will be countered... so on and so forth.

But as we've seen here, many won't bother... or will simply go to using the other features of ISBoxer to get the job done... just not as efficiently. PVP activity will take the main hit, and that's not necessarily a bad thing in this particular case.

The people we will lose from mining circles will be those running huge farms that would be difficult to hide. They'll need to scale down, or slow down, or simply stop.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#857 - 2014-11-25 23:01:51 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:

This is illegal too right?
https://sites.google.com/site/khromtor/home

He is using hardware to duplicate an input. Hell at this point of definition it could be considered illegal to use alt tab to rapidly issue commands.


Yes. it is also mentioned in the initial post. ;)
ashley Eoner
#858 - 2014-11-25 23:03:09 UTC
Forgotten N Forsaken wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Angela Daemonic wrote:
Ohh when all these is boxers rage quit and plex prices drop... I will be in heaven.

Indeed, very quickly the volume on PLEX sales will increase again sharply due to the lower prices... however this time it will not be fueled by people that don't care if the price is too high.

Keep dreaming.


Forgotten N Forsaken wrote:
THANK YOU CCP. ABOUT TIME I.S BOXERS GOT BANNED. WOOOTT!!!!!!
You're dreaming. There's so many ways to hide it from CCP's eyes it'll still be abused. Hell Blizzard with their millions spent on warden can't even stop basic hackers and multibox programs.

If you really want them stopped then I hope you're prepared to have your system compromised by CCP so they can scan every aspect and control what you can and cannot run.




I would be okay with that :) **** the I.S boxing Cheating Pricks.

Yet they will still be there. :P
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#859 - 2014-11-25 23:04:13 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Bakla Firoz wrote:
I was so shocked when I found out that CCP specifically confirmed multiple times that isboxing to control multiple accounts was allowed. So why the sudden change of heart?

Nothing has changed and therefore you owe those people who have trained up 10, 20, 30, 50(?) accounts a MASSIVE apology. How about those who have recently paid for 3 month (the minimum) subscription on isboxer because you said it was okay? The very least you could do is admit you were wrong.



1 month is minimum.


And of course, you can still use ISBoxer in EVE. Just not the broadcast function.

You'll need to stack your windows next to each other and take a second to click on each one.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#860 - 2014-11-25 23:05:55 UTC
To Steve Ronuken: CCP are going to get flooded with requests asking if the for example twelve accounts that just logged on and started mining together are breaking the rules etc.

Why should it be legal to log them on together using ISBoxer but illegal to start the miners mining rocks ? Don't get me wrong - I agree with most people that ISBoxer use should be prohibited altogether - so it should be fairly obvious to make a clean break and remove all use of ISBoxer type software. After all it probably is a major factor in the current ISK value of PLEX.