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Sansha anti-CONCORD Warfare Links

Author
Udonor
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-11-25 20:58:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Udonor
Modules with various effects on CONCORD by reverse flow hackiing attacks through CRIMEWATCH systems. Suggested source by rare drops in Incursions in hi sec and to much lesser extent lo sec (assumes a minor option in plan to drop on nearby high sec instead). Null sec incursions have no need to equip these systems so drop probability should be near zero. Suggest drop probability reduced as % Sansha effects drop. Secondary source? special Sansha agent missions which target other Sansha (make that mission bug into a feature!)

All obviously contraband of the most extreme sort. No customs warning message/timer (instant fire). Furthermore all interfere with clone activation and skill saving according to module: delays in clone becoming available and possible training loss back to last clone activation (not an issue in a intense campaign where clone loss was recent).

Also suggest these modules whether off or on interact with active cloaking to radiate contraband signals detectable by CONCORD (within several AU) and Empire Navies/police/customs patrols (on grid) - effectively negating cloaking and possibily allowing limited CONCORD pursuit. Since specifics info is not being released to capsuleers, cloaking remains fully viable between capsuleers.

#1 Stop CONCORD warping in system
#2 Reduce CONCORD tanking to mortal realm (various degrees/meta possible)
#3 Jam DED/CONCORD communication channels
(3a) CONCORD receives no attack reports (also stops CRIMEWATCH flags/sec changes as a result)
(3b) Corrupt capsuleer coordination channels (periodical echo spam from Jita/help or blank or etc)
(3c) Stop CONCORD calls for reinforcement
#4 Jam Local chat (assume its CONCORD provided/regulated/monitored)
#5 Stop CRIMEWATCH flag once off original grid (interrupts systemwide coordination and status-course projection data)
#6 Traffic jam - stops all ship warps on grid/systemwide (T2) which are not BLUE
#7 Set all NOT BLUE to CRIMINAL FLAG on grid (doesn't summon CONCORD to grid though)
#8 Summon CONCORD response to grid (note special contraband ship will be shot if still there on arrival)

I am sure there are many more effects suggestive of jamming and hacking CONCORD CRIMEWATCH and regular communication and data systems systemwide and aboard ships.

Note: most of these should have strict limitations: limited times to operate with long cool down, effecting only one part of CONCORD ability (set crimewatch flag but not summon to original incident location or block warp), etc

Retail cost is expected to be astronomical
Paranoid Loyd
#2 - 2014-11-25 21:01:13 UTC
Interesting... idiotic, but interesting.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Jackson Apollo
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-11-25 21:03:15 UTC
CCP would never go for this

ever
Udonor
Doomheim
#4 - 2014-11-25 21:12:57 UTC
Jackson Apollo wrote:
CCP would never go for this

ever



Maybe not

But then CCP has done lots of stuff recently that most ppl would say "never happening"

I do think that numbers of modules in circulation is a KEY aspect.

Yes too many would just make hi sec into lo sec or null.

At most rare end...it would be like a very short brief Burn Jita event in a random system a couple times per year. Hardly anyone not there at start would be effected.
Eldwinn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-11-25 21:13:57 UTC
This thread was brought up already. Basically where you can change the sec level of the system based on where the incursion spawned. Your ideas are basically the same thing. It got a response from a couple devs. The answer about the matter was this would only cause chaos.

I will try to find the thread again. Been awhile.
Udonor
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-11-25 21:20:29 UTC
Eldwinn wrote:
This thread was brought up already. Basically where you can change the sec level of the system based on where the incursion spawned. Your ideas are basically the same thing. It got a response from a couple devs. The answer about the matter was this would only cause chaos.

I will try to find the thread again. Been awhile.



Nope. Player run modules -- not in an official Incursion area. potentially anywhere. Although CCP might want to exclude trade hubs & rookie systems, or greatly reduce durations etc of effects.
Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
#7 - 2014-11-25 21:20:32 UTC
Jackson Apollo
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-11-25 21:23:14 UTC
Udonor wrote:

But then CCP has done lots of stuff recently that most ppl would say "never happening"



Fair point.
Udonor
Doomheim
#9 - 2014-11-25 21:23:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Udonor
Udonor wrote:
Jackson Apollo wrote:
CCP would never go for this

ever



Maybe not

But then CCP has done lots of stuff recently that most ppl would say "never happening"

I do think that numbers of modules in circulation is a KEY aspect.

Yes too many would just make hi sec into lo sec or null.

At most rare end...it would be like a very short brief Burn Jita event in a random system a couple times per year. Hardly anyone not there at start would be effected.



Actually if I was CCP I would keep a counter on the number of each module in existence and shut off drops while the limit has been reached. maybe bump the limit once every 3-6 months to allow for collection by people who quit EVE.

Strictly limit number - not just low drop probability.
Eldwinn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-11-25 21:23:42 UTC
Udonor wrote:

Nope. Player run modules -- not in an official Incursion area. potentially anywhere. Although CCP might want to exclude trade hubs & rookie systems, or greatly reduce durations etc of effects.


O, well I mis-read that then. My apologizes. That pretty much places me as a firm -1 then.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#11 - 2014-11-25 21:59:41 UTC
would need a counter mod to do the opposite, maybe from the concord lp store for massive lp. same effects as the sansha one but reverse
Udonor
Doomheim
#12 - 2014-11-25 22:01:02 UTC
I should also clarify that I was brainstorming the module effects. That is I do not necessarily think all my initial module ideas should be implemented and especially not all made availalble at once.

Plenty of room for someone else to propose limited effects on CONCORD or from Incursions. Or to say which seem most interesting or practical.

Might also be true that some limits might need to be set on what ships can equip such modules (giving focus for suspicions and ship scanning). Originally I was thinking BC hulls etc. But maybe it would need to be Sansha pirate hulls for data interface "compatibility" or OMG Echlons (if many still exist).


Plus maybe my idea on "set all NOT BLUE" should be "set non-fleet" because that would allow a post-attack penalty on the using fleet when the module ran out of operation time. Could set anyone who has been member of using fleet to suspect at end with upgrade to criminal flag if weapon flag on. Obviously all fleet members would get short duration pop up to exit fleet if they didn't want "future/delayed violation flag" set.

heh which modules to implement first is obviously driven as much by what is simple to implement with "fair and logical" consequeces (especially as code) as it is drive by interesting effects.

Udonor
Doomheim
#13 - 2014-11-25 22:07:01 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
would need a counter mod to do the opposite, maybe from the concord lp store for massive lp. same effects as the sansha one but reverse



Depends on effects. Lots of stuff is in CRIMEWATCH system which capsuleers should not legally be able to effect.

However the most obvious player counter always exists -- BLOW UP THEIR DAMN SHIP. Lol

Also right now I am guessing most modules effects would be limited to maybe 15 minutes. Cooldown? Well longer the more disruptive it is to normal hi sec is my first "pass CCP scrutiny" reaction. Once per down time is probably easy to implement for the most powerfully disruptive.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2014-11-25 22:12:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Udonor wrote:
Actually if I was CCP I would keep a counter on the number of each module in existence and shut off drops while the limit has been reached. maybe bump the limit once every 3-6 months to allow for collection by people who quit EVE.

Strictly limit number - not just low drop probability.

Arbitrary limits like this on something so incredibly powerful is a terrible idea. Tournament ships can at least be blobbed or lost due to drunk/yolo/oops. This is a bit like saying "Lets only allow 20 high grade snake sets to exist, that will keep them balanced". And the original idea isn't any better.

There is no reason to change the way CONCORD works. If you don't like CONCORD go to low/null/wh space.

-1
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#15 - 2014-11-25 22:13:47 UTC
Udonor wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
would need a counter mod to do the opposite, maybe from the concord lp store for massive lp. same effects as the sansha one but reverse



Depends on effects. Lots of stuff is in CRIMEWATCH system which capsuleers should not legally be able to effect.

However the most obvious player counter always exists -- BLOW UP THEIR DAMN SHIP. Lol

Also right now I am guessing most modules effects would be limited to maybe 15 minutes. Cooldown? Well longer the more disruptive it is to normal hi sec is my first "pass CCP scrutiny" reaction. Once per down time is probably easy to implement for the most powerfully disruptive.



for the ones that prevent concord the opposite would be to allow concord (like a cyno for concord when used)

some of the crime watch ones don't really have an opposite. I was talking more the ones that messed with concord.
Udonor
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-11-25 22:17:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Udonor
Lady Rift wrote:
would need a counter mod to do the opposite, maybe from the concord lp store for massive lp. same effects as the sansha one but reverse



Literally the opposite is probably another if related topic.

While I cannot really see capsuleer or normal NPC corp having tech access to help protect secret CONCORD tech from half understood Sansha tech...

I could see earning special CONCORD and EMPIRE favors in the form of limited use modules (preloaded charges? or automatically & permanently on overload?) to call in CONCORD or Navy/police response to lo sec on a one time or limited time basis. I have no idea how hard that would be to code. Nor do I have any idea how players could earn such special favors (except maybe as drop for finally ending hi sec Incursion).


again if that is an intersting idea to you -- I think you want to start a separate thread to stand or fall on its own merits.


*** But maybe the idea of special charges or permanently in overload needs to apply to my idea too as a limit. ***
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#17 - 2014-11-26 02:55:01 UTC
NO

Anything that any player can do to alter the Concord response to a legitimate situation like a suicide ganking is a no go.

If you still think these are a good idea how do you balance/restrict them so they cannot be abused by the likes of suicide gankers?
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#18 - 2014-11-26 03:07:25 UTC
So....make suicide ganking easier....hmmm....nope. Either deal with the consequences of ganking (which should be much harsher), or stick to low/null.

-1
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#19 - 2014-11-26 07:04:15 UTC
If this were to be implemented...well, look at lowsec and nulsec incursions currently, that is what you would get. Virtually nobody running them. From there, what would be the point in having content in the game that nobody would run on a halfway regular basis. Good job, you just made it so Eve has fewer things to realistically do.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.

Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2014-11-26 16:45:44 UTC
Udonor wrote:
Modules with various effects on CONCORD by reverse flow hackiing attacks through CRIMEWATCH systems. Suggested source by rare drops in Incursions in hi sec and to much lesser extent lo sec (assumes a minor option in plan to drop on nearby high sec instead). Null sec incursions have no need to equip these systems so drop probability should be near zero. Suggest drop probability reduced as % Sansha effects drop. Secondary source? special Sansha agent missions which target other Sansha (make that mission bug into a feature!)

All obviously contraband of the most extreme sort. No customs warning message/timer (instant fire). Furthermore all interfere with clone activation and skill saving according to module: delays in clone becoming available and possible training loss back to last clone activation (not an issue in a intense campaign where clone loss was recent).

Also suggest these modules whether off or on interact with active cloaking to radiate contraband signals detectable by CONCORD (within several AU) and Empire Navies/police/customs patrols (on grid) - effectively negating cloaking and possibily allowing limited CONCORD pursuit. Since specifics info is not being released to capsuleers, cloaking remains fully viable between capsuleers.

#1 Stop CONCORD warping in system
#2 Reduce CONCORD tanking to mortal realm (various degrees/meta possible)
#3 Jam DED/CONCORD communication channels
(3a) CONCORD receives no attack reports (also stops CRIMEWATCH flags/sec changes as a result)
(3b) Corrupt capsuleer coordination channels (periodical echo spam from Jita/help or blank or etc)
(3c) Stop CONCORD calls for reinforcement
#4 Jam Local chat (assume its CONCORD provided/regulated/monitored)
#5 Stop CRIMEWATCH flag once off original grid (interrupts systemwide coordination and status-course projection data)
#6 Traffic jam - stops all ship warps on grid/systemwide (T2) which are not BLUE
#7 Set all NOT BLUE to CRIMINAL FLAG on grid (doesn't summon CONCORD to grid though)
#8 Summon CONCORD response to grid (note special contraband ship will be shot if still there on arrival)

I am sure there are many more effects suggestive of jamming and hacking CONCORD CRIMEWATCH and regular communication and data systems systemwide and aboard ships.

Note: most of these should have strict limitations: limited times to operate with long cool down, effecting only one part of CONCORD ability (set crimewatch flag but not summon to original incident location or block warp), etc

Retail cost is expected to be astronomical


So you wanna to gank without beeing punished.

Isn“t that something what low/0.0/wh is for and not highsec ?

-1