Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Suggestion

Greatly increase missile velocity
Greatly reduce missile flight time
Balance accel time so that missiles still go the same distance.

This will not effect the dps of missile boats since their dps is determined by other facters. This only determines the amount of time it takes to engage a target, and the speed and distance at which a target must travel in order to escape the flight range of the missile. However, both of those issues are the primary problem with missiles.

I don't want a long drawn out conversation about this. Simply post whether you'd like missiles to have a faster engagement time, or that you don't want it to happen. However, don't say no because you're a turret boat pilot and wanna be able to pwn missile boats easier.

I'm tired of sitting around waisting volleys, not hitting targets cause my missiles are too slow, not being pulled into incursions because of missiles, and not being pvp viable with missiles other than in a drake or stealth bomber.( don't tell me to train turrets. I love missiles and would rather see them pvp viable than to cross train when I shouldn't have to)

So if you like to see missiles engage faster, say yes, if not, say no. If someone has a suggestion that would need to be made towards this, then feel free. Other than that, it's not really a discussion, I just wanna see how many people would like missiles to be more pvp viable.

The issue I have is the fact that realistically missiles in Eve already go preaty fast when you think about it. Unbonused heavies can push something like 20 mach. Even torpedoes go around 6 and a half mach without a velocity bonus. Heavies from a tengu top out nearly 25 mach before missile velocity rigs/imps are considered. Defenders can hit a blazing 40 mach. By comparison, most of todays so-called "high-speed, high-altitude" surface-to-air missiles can make maybe 4-5 mach

I will admit it sucks having to watch volley after volley exit your ship before the first makes an impact, but that's hardly because missiles are slow, just that the ista-hit from turrets make them slow by comparison. Drones are similar in that it initially takes a few seconds for them to get inside range to fire. The good news for drones is that they don't have to worry about wasted shots, since the use no charges to fire to begin with. I agree it's very anoying, but speeding up missiles seems a bit unrealistic.

I appologise for making discussion, but I feel like an explenation would be warrented for saying no to this.

Defender missiles can shoot down missiles, not that they are terribly reliable, but it is possible.

IIRC correctly, CCP has issues with missiles when they move too fast, an issue with the game engine or something. That aside, I'm not sure this would change anything other than the time-of-flight and delayed DPS of missiles.

Given that missiles always hit their target as long as you are in range and locked, I think time-of-flight is a reasonable drawback to using them. Plus, they are one weapon system without any real range penalty, they hit just as hard at 0km as 100km.

Tell that to a Kestrel Pilot with 4 launchers and no turret hardpoints.

Drones have sentries as an option for engaging at long range. Missiles have no such equivilent. Stupid, irrelevant comparison.


Another stupid post, EVE is not a realistic game, and as such realism has no bearing on balance.


Oh hi, I'm a sentry drone. Heard of me?
Tool.


I'm starting to think that nooone in this thread has actually used missiles, because nobody so far seems to have a clue.
Missiles have their own damage reduction factors - yes, they can technically "hit" an enemy and will do every time if in range - but unlike turrets they can't make favorable use of low transversal and other factors. Thus: there are situations where they do so little damage that they may as well be missing altogether.


Oh missiles and drones are a secondary weapon? Hmmm, Ok hang on, I'll just go tell all the Guristas, Gallente droneboat and Caldari/Amarr missileboat lineup, as there seems to have been some massive mistake here.
Idiot.
I'm also failing to see exactly what these balance issues are...

I'll make this simple: either rework missiles to be effective at range, or replace the range bonus on ships that have it. If missiles are meant to be usable at long range, then buff them so they can do it. If not - change the bonuses to something better.

You want to play the insult game? Fine for you, but i don't.

What i meant when i said "secondary" (notice the quotes?) is simply that for most ships, unlike the missile boats and drone boats, those are secondary weapons. Buffing missiles and/or drones would make ships who normaly uses guns use more missiles or drones and it could create balancing issues with guns.

That was my thought at the time. It can and probably is wrong and you dont have to call me an idiot because i made a mistake! We all do, even you! The features and idea forum is a place of speculation and it is highl;y possible to make mistakes in the first place!

To those who sang that this may cause an imlance with missiles I really don't think so. Missiles will still have the exact same range and the exact same dps against the exact same target. The only imbalance it may cause is that missiles will engage faster and to turret boat pilots, that would be an imbalance because they enjoy pwning missile boats. Now, are there certain ships that ma need a balance in the dose department like the tengu? Sure, but many people believe its op as is.

The major factor here is that people like me who prefer missiles will finally be able to compete in pvp in something other than a Drake or stealth bomber.

As far as ccp not being able to make missiles go faster without issues? Well, ccp is probably doing something wrong or diverting other factors like missiles speed at which they compute their movement. Maybe the problem is that they're making the math too complicated and pushing the server too much. Maybe increasing their velocity and simplifying the mathematics behind it may help

Okay seriously emperor I'm beginning to think you have the hots for me or you just trolling for my name.

The suggestion I have made here is a valid 1 that needs to be considered an a lot of missile boat pilots would agree.

If you don't have a valid argument in this thread then gtfo.

Bump

Missiles have enough down sides. They're ineffective against fast ships in explosion velocity alone which is in relation to turret tracking. They're inneffective against ships with small sig radius depending on missile size, which relates the same to turrets.

Turrets are limited to 2 damage types which is a disadvantage, but being generally polar opposites which is an advantage, where as missiles are capable of all damage types which is an advantage, but require reloading different missiles in order to change types which is probably more of a disadvantage than turrets being limited to two types because turrets will do those two types in one shot.

While turrets do have optimal range limitations, there are several skills, modules, implants, and whatever else that can increase their optimal range quite significatly.

Missiles however do not have an optimal range, but have a long flight time. Any skills, modules, implants, etc. etc. that may effect missile velocity is more of a range buff to missiles than it is a engagement time buff. Such as when i trained missile projection for my torps. I didn't train the skill to make my missiles faster, even though that was the outcome. I trained the skill to give my torps more range.

However, if my missiles were to have a greatly increased velocity in exchange for reduced flight time, then even though the skill would still have increased my velocity, training the skill would still have been all about range.

Turrets have everything going for them in relation to pvp, all it requires is a little fleet/pilot coordination and experience. Where as missiles have everything going for the in pve. However, turrets are just as capable of pve and actually prefered by a lot of more experienced pilots. The only thing that gives missiles a firm advantage in pve over turrets is their ability to pick damage types. However, missiles stand almost no chance in pvp without including other factors such as tank, ewar, drones, massive fleet coordination. Turrets can come in with solid dps and as long as they're coorinated, aplha down a missile fleet with less losses and less extensive coordination and other factors. They can just come in, fleet commander says alpha logistics, then switch to tengu no 1. Where as the fleet commander of the missile fleet has to coordinate logistics, ewar, primary, cap transfers, and whatever else.

If we boosted missiles to have a much faster engagement time, then turret fleets would have to use the same tactics as the missile fleets in order to win, which means the outcome of the battle would be determined by either numbers, coordination, or individual pilot skills. Which is the way it should be.