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The Big Rebalance : The story so far.....

Author
Neugeniko
Insight Securities
#1 - 2014-11-22 09:14:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Neugeniko
CCP officially announced a major rebalancing initiative with the 'Rebalancing EVE, one ship at a time' developer blog on the 6/3/2012. This initiative started with Inferno 1.0 which modified some T1 frigates on the 22/5/2012.

I know a lot of old timers who can fly many ships have enjoyed the progress, as every few releases they get a major change to one of their favorite ships. The following is a summary of how the re-balancing is progressing.

Let me know if I missed something in patch notes since late 2011, I think I may have missed some minor tweaks done to ships in the 'no rebalance yet' category. I'll keep this post updated if it doesn't get locked due to CCP inactivity :).

Some rebalancing was done prior to the announcement and i've included those. The whole rebalance initiative was in response to the Incarna backlash, refocusing the game around spaceships again. I've also listed the new ships since Incarna.

Won't be rebalanced
Special edition ships as listed under the special editions market category.

Major rebalance done
Subcapital T1 ships (except ORE Industrial and Shuttles) (*NEW 2ND T1 Destroyer and Attack Battlecruisers for each race. A T1 Mining Frigate)
T1 Freighters (*NEW T1 ORE Freighter - Bowhead)
Faction ships (except Revenant) (*NEW Major Faction Battlecruisers, Sisters of EVE & Mordu's Legion Ships)
T2 Assault frigates (Tweaked just prior to the re balancing initiative)
T2 Blockade runners
T2 Combat recon ships
T2 Command ships
T2 Deep space transports
T2 Electronic attack ships
T2 Exhumers
T2 Expedition frigates *NEW
T2 Force recon ships
T2 Heavy assault cruisers
T2 Heavy interdiction cruisers
T2 Interceptors
T2 Interdictors
T2 Jump freighters
T2 Marauders
T2 Stealth bombers
T3 Amarr & Minmatar Destroyers *NEW

Major rebalance coming soon (tm)
T2 Black ops (Some tweaks done)
T3 Strategic cruisers

No major rebalance yet
T1 Capital industrial ships
T1 Carriers
T1 Dreadnoughts (Some tweaks done)
T1 Industrial command ships
T1 ORE Industrial
T1 Shuttles
T1 Supercarriers
T1 Titans
Faction Revenant
T2 Covert ops
T2 Logistics

New ships - Coming soon
T3 Destroyers for Caldari & Gallente

Modules rebalanced
Co-Processors
Reactor Control Units
Micro Auxiliary Power Cores
Light Missile Launchers
Capacitor Flux Coils
Cargo Scanners
Ship Scanners
Survey Scanners

Mining Lasers
Mining Laser Upgrades
Ice Harvester Upgrades
Expanded Cargoholds
Nanofiber Internal Structures
Reinforced Bulkheads
Inertial Stabilizers
Overdrive Injectors
Power Diagnostic Systems
Capacitor Power Relays
Capacitor Rechargers

Afterburners
Microwarpdrive
Shield Extenders
Armor Plates


Cheers,
Neug
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#2 - 2014-11-23 07:13:49 UTC
Most worthless rebalance? Freighters, far and away. No capability added, and must sacrifice cargo capacity in order to come close to what they had for EHP before, or, if they sacrifice cargo capacity AND defense, they get a slight increase in agility.

Way to make life easier for gankers, the whiniest bunch of players in the game!

Next most worthless? T1 industrials. You took the most popular haulers of every race, and made them even easier to kill, since they were so massively overpowered prior to then. Again, gankers win, the rest of the player base mostly loses. The only thing you got right was the PI hauler, and even that is pretty damned marginal, at best.

HIC's - Amarr with a drone bay, but not Gallente. WTF are you smoking?

Battlecruisers - locking Gallente & Minmatar into active tanks, for the most part, is, was, and will continue to be just stupid.

The Interdictor 'rebalance' was just a bit laughable, HAC's still have a lot of issues, and the Marauder changes were just silly.

Stuff you got (mostly) right? Electronic Attack Ships, and Logistics at all levels . T1 cruisers aren't bad, although the weapon systems, Heavy Missiles in particular, still need to be tweaked. Covert Ops frigates are very good (probably because you didn't have to touch them). Stealth Bombers aren't awful.

T1 battleships are still in dire need of further rebalancing, destroyers need to be refocused back to the purpose that is stated in their description, i.e., catching frigate-class ships, this sudden love affair the Amarr are having with missiles and drones is beyond idiotic, and I'm deathly afraid of what the future holds for capitals, particularly carriers, if you proceed with the same level of competence you've shown thus far. It honestly appears as if your ideas grow worse as the hulls grow more expensive.
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#3 - 2014-11-23 10:19:14 UTC
Not sure suicide gankers are the players most likely to whinge. I think the percentage per capita of excessive whinging probably goes to nullsec community even allowing for more people being there.

I do agree the Freighter rebalance probably has been the worst of the lot so far. Don't forget things can always get worse no matter how bad they are. Twisted This was brought on them by so many people asking for slots on the Freighters for so long though. 'Be careful what you wish for' is a good phrase for this one.

T1 industrials have always been poor although the functionality of having additional specific holds has been handy as long as you use them wisely. They cannot be used for more than short trips really and then not on well travelled routes.

Regarding hauling a large problem a large problem continues to be overfilling of holds with expensive cargo, poor fitting choices, and 'AFK' piloting. If those three can be remedied the situation 'may' improve.

A lot of the current Freighter ganking is to do with the political leanings between the CODE directors and GSF apparently. So it's still a bad time potentially to be a hauler. You would think people would maybe switch to hubs other than Jita to trade but this isn't happening I don't think.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2014-11-23 10:35:33 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Meyr wrote:
Most worthless rebalance? Freighters, far and away. No capability added, and must sacrifice cargo capacity in order to come close to what they had for EHP before, or, if they sacrifice cargo capacity AND defense, they get a slight increase in agility.

Way to make life easier for gankers, the whiniest bunch of players in the game!


Gankers were the people who spent years warning high sec bears that if CCP added mods/rigs to freighters they would end up nerfing them. The bears got exactly what they asked for.
Kalihira
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#5 - 2014-11-23 11:07:45 UTC
Meyr wrote:
Most worthless rebalance? Freighters, far and away. No capability added, and must sacrifice cargo capacity in order to come close to what they had for EHP before, or, if they sacrifice cargo capacity AND defense, they get a slight increase in agility.

Way to make life easier for gankers, the whiniest bunch of players in the game!

Next most worthless? T1 industrials. You took the most popular haulers of every race, and made them even easier to kill, since they were so massively overpowered prior to then. Again, gankers win, the rest of the player base mostly loses. The only thing you got right was the PI hauler, and even that is pretty damned marginal, at best.

HIC's - Amarr with a drone bay, but not Gallente. WTF are you smoking?

Battlecruisers - locking Gallente & Minmatar into active tanks, for the most part, is, was, and will continue to be just stupid.

The Interdictor 'rebalance' was just a bit laughable, HAC's still have a lot of issues, and the Marauder changes were just silly.

Stuff you got (mostly) right? Electronic Attack Ships, and Logistics at all levels . T1 cruisers aren't bad, although the weapon systems, Heavy Missiles in particular, still need to be tweaked. Covert Ops frigates are very good (probably because you didn't have to touch them). Stealth Bombers aren't awful.

T1 battleships are still in dire need of further rebalancing, destroyers need to be refocused back to the purpose that is stated in their description, i.e., catching frigate-class ships, this sudden love affair the Amarr are having with missiles and drones is beyond idiotic, and I'm deathly afraid of what the future holds for capitals, particularly carriers, if you proceed with the same level of competence you've shown thus far. It honestly appears as if your ideas grow worse as the hulls grow more expensive.


I smell bittervet syndrome....

HACs are mostly fine, I agree on the BC part, they are underpowered atm, apart from the ABCs
Neugeniko
Insight Securities
#6 - 2014-11-23 12:00:17 UTC
Traders and people moving house overloading freighters has always been a problem. I did it, once, on a T1 Indy. They should really set themselves a cargo ISK per unit EHP and stick to it. ABCs dropped that metric by 40% when they were introduced on a per ganker account basis. I run about 2.7M isk per 1000 EHP nowdays (Smile and wave boys, Smile and wave).
I don't think the rebalance has had anywhere near the same effect. Traders get hit harder than miners because they haul more often.

Neug
Ormand Audel
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-11-23 13:18:02 UTC
Meyr wrote:
Battlecruisers - locking Gallente & Minmatar into active tanks, for the most part, is, was, and will continue to be just stupid.

The Interdictor 'rebalance' was just a bit laughable, HAC's still have a lot of issues, and the Marauder changes were just silly

Passive myrm/would like a word with (might be others, I haven't checked).
What're some issues with HICs? They look fine to me. Long point? Longer on a garmur (I think). Infinite point? That's kind of their primary role.
I also don't see problems with the marauder changes.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2014-11-23 14:37:32 UTC
Ormand Audel wrote:

Passive myrm/would like a word with (might be others, I haven't checked).


Shield buffer Brutix. Its effectively like pulling the pin on a hand grenade and tossing it into the middle of the enemy.
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#9 - 2014-11-23 15:56:42 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Meyr wrote:
Most worthless rebalance? Freighters, far and away. No capability added, and must sacrifice cargo capacity in order to come close to what they had for EHP before, or, if they sacrifice cargo capacity AND defense, they get a slight increase in agility.

Way to make life easier for gankers, the whiniest bunch of players in the game!


Gankers were the people who spent years warning high sec bears that if CCP added mods/rigs to freighters they would end up nerfing them. The bears got exactly what they asked for.


So, what, Fozzie (a 'former' Goon) and Rise are showing a bias toward gankers?

Color me shocked! That was obvious the day they introduced the Tornado.

So, no, it's not the 'Bears' who got exactly what they asked for, it was you, the Goons, and gankers (not that there's much to separate the two).
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#10 - 2014-11-23 21:14:58 UTC
Meyr wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Meyr wrote:
Most worthless rebalance? Freighters, far and away. No capability added, and must sacrifice cargo capacity in order to come close to what they had for EHP before, or, if they sacrifice cargo capacity AND defense, they get a slight increase in agility.

Way to make life easier for gankers, the whiniest bunch of players in the game!


Gankers were the people who spent years warning high sec bears that if CCP added mods/rigs to freighters they would end up nerfing them. The bears got exactly what they asked for.


So, what, Fozzie (a 'former' Goon) and Rise are showing a bias toward gankers?

Color me shocked! That was obvious the day they introduced the Tornado.

So, no, it's not the 'Bears' who got exactly what they asked for, it was you, the Goons, and gankers (not that there's much to separate the two).


We didn't want it, hence the years of telling the bears not to ask for them.
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#11 - 2014-11-23 23:16:55 UTC
Meyr wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Meyr wrote:
Most worthless rebalance? Freighters, far and away. No capability added, and must sacrifice cargo capacity in order to come close to what they had for EHP before, or, if they sacrifice cargo capacity AND defense, they get a slight increase in agility.

Way to make life easier for gankers, the whiniest bunch of players in the game!


Gankers were the people who spent years warning high sec bears that if CCP added mods/rigs to freighters they would end up nerfing them. The bears got exactly what they asked for.


So, what, Fozzie (a 'former' Goon) and Rise are showing a bias toward gankers?

Color me shocked! That was obvious the day they introduced the Tornado.

So, no, it's not the 'Bears' who got exactly what they asked for, it was you, the Goons, and gankers (not that there's much to separate the two).


Troll harder.
Aeryn Maricadie
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-11-24 07:05:34 UTC
Ormand Audel wrote:
Meyr wrote:
Battlecruisers - locking Gallente & Minmatar into active tanks, for the most part, is, was, and will continue to be just stupid.

The Interdictor 'rebalance' was just a bit laughable, HAC's still have a lot of issues, and the Marauder changes were just silly

Passive myrm/would like a word with (might be others, I haven't checked).
What're some issues with HICs? They look fine to me. Long point? Longer on a garmur (I think). Infinite point? That's kind of their primary role.
I also don't see problems with the marauder changes.

I don't see how anyone can complain about triple rep Myrmidon. Once upon a time I was on a small gang lowsec roam we engaged 5 cruiser/BC to 5 Cruiser+1 exquorer we killed two Cruisers (Omen+Navy Omen) lost everyone but the triple rep Myrm. He reps through the remaining 3 Cruisers for the minute long weapons timer and takes the gate out. Way to look a gift horse in the mouth guy.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#13 - 2014-11-25 15:06:50 UTC
T3s won't see a full rebalance anytime soon. Fozzie is scared to death of touching them because they are literally the only fleet ship besides Ishtars, bombers, and caps that are worth fielding anymore. Meanwhile, we're getting T3 destroyers to distract us.

And because recons are now and have been **** for fleets beyond about 10 pilots, they are under represented, and thus not a priority. You don't even see them in AT anymore. If you want recon abilities, you fly a T3. If you want the standard EWAR abilities like ECM or damps, you fly a T1 EWAR cruiser or frigate.

evenews24.com/2014/11/24/pandemic-legion-conquers-f4r2-q/

So, bombers v AFs. Bombers won. Frigates, especially AFs, are not the intended target of bombers. Yet they got plastered. I'm actually glad this happened. Hopefully it will draw attention to the obviously unbalanced state of bombs, NOT BOMBERS! Its the bombs that are a problem.

As far as OP's list, AFs were one of the first ships to get a major rebalance. They were categorically worse than faction frigates before getting a fix. Now they are competitive. It was one of the better rebalance efforts. Caps of all kinds have been "fixed" and "rebalanced" multiple times over the years.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Neugeniko
Insight Securities
#14 - 2014-11-26 05:25:42 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
T3s won't see a full rebalance anytime soon. Fozzie is scared to death of touching them because they are literally the only fleet ship besides Ishtars, bombers, and caps that are worth fielding anymore. Meanwhile, we're getting T3 destroyers to distract us.

And because recons are now and have been **** for fleets beyond about 10 pilots, they are under represented, and thus not a priority. You don't even see them in AT anymore. If you want recon abilities, you fly a T3. If you want the standard EWAR abilities like ECM or damps, you fly a T1 EWAR cruiser or frigate.

evenews24.com/2014/11/24/pandemic-legion-conquers-f4r2-q/

So, bombers v AFs. Bombers won. Frigates, especially AFs, are not the intended target of bombers. Yet they got plastered. I'm actually glad this happened. Hopefully it will draw attention to the obviously unbalanced state of bombs, NOT BOMBERS! Its the bombs that are a problem.

As far as OP's list, AFs were one of the first ships to get a major rebalance. They were categorically worse than faction frigates before getting a fix. Now they are competitive. It was one of the better rebalance efforts. Caps of all kinds have been "fixed" and "rebalanced" multiple times over the years.


I'll move the AFs to the rebalanced category. I'll check the patch notes again for combat cap changes and move up anything that has had hull changes.

Cheers,
Neug
Neugeniko
Insight Securities
#15 - 2014-12-10 02:11:11 UTC
Updated. Also flagged the new ships and ship catagories for veterens coming back to the game.

Cheers,
Neug
Fonac
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2014-12-10 16:48:28 UTC
Note to the list: I've seen black ops and recons been mentioned multiple times, that they where next on the list.
Might be worth moving black ops to "soon to be rebalanced"
Neugeniko
Insight Securities
#17 - 2014-12-10 19:18:21 UTC
Fonac wrote:
Note to the list: I've seen black ops and recons been mentioned multiple times, that they where next on the list.
Might be worth moving black ops to "soon to be rebalanced"


Done.

Cheers,
Neug
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#18 - 2014-12-10 20:08:52 UTC
Meyr wrote:
Most worthless rebalance? Freighters, far and away. No capability added, and must sacrifice cargo capacity in order to come close to what they had for EHP before, or, if they sacrifice cargo capacity AND defense, they get a slight increase in agility.

Way to make life easier for gankers, the whiniest bunch of players in the game!

Next most worthless? T1 industrials. You took the most popular haulers of every race, and made them even easier to kill, since they were so massively overpowered prior to then. Again, gankers win, the rest of the player base mostly loses. The only thing you got right was the PI hauler, and even that is pretty damned marginal, at best.

HIC's - Amarr with a drone bay, but not Gallente. WTF are you smoking?

Battlecruisers - locking Gallente & Minmatar into active tanks, for the most part, is, was, and will continue to be just stupid.

The Interdictor 'rebalance' was just a bit laughable, HAC's still have a lot of issues, and the Marauder changes were just silly.

Stuff you got (mostly) right? Electronic Attack Ships, and Logistics at all levels . T1 cruisers aren't bad, although the weapon systems, Heavy Missiles in particular, still need to be tweaked. Covert Ops frigates are very good (probably because you didn't have to touch them). Stealth Bombers aren't awful.

T1 battleships are still in dire need of further rebalancing, destroyers need to be refocused back to the purpose that is stated in their description, i.e., catching frigate-class ships, this sudden love affair the Amarr are having with missiles and drones is beyond idiotic, and I'm deathly afraid of what the future holds for capitals, particularly carriers, if you proceed with the same level of competence you've shown thus far. It honestly appears as if your ideas grow worse as the hulls grow more expensive.


This more or less....the worst thing to happened to marauders are what they become self tackling over 9000 rep stupidity.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#19 - 2014-12-10 21:00:35 UTC
Meyr wrote:


So, what, Fozzie (a 'former' Goon) and Rise are showing a bias toward gankers?

Color me shocked!


Fozzie was in PL, and Rise was an honorabru solo pvper, not a ganker.

A troll doesn't know what he's talking about? Color me shocked!

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#20 - 2014-12-10 21:51:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

We didn't want it, hence the years of telling the bears not to ask for them.



This. Goons and other 0.0 entities already had systems in place to get the freighters with moon goo safely from 0.0 all the way to empire trade hubs. Many are the reasons its not good to have that Charon at freighter 5 (under old scheme when cargo was wholey skills dependent) shot down, in empire no less.

This was an empire asked for change. 0.0 liked the max cargo space based on skill alone. Probably because they pretended this was a mmo and did support fleets to handle keeping a freighter alive. Even if a skeleton crew of a few players the freighter did not fly alone. Its the (I wanna be lone wolf solo) empire bears who thought they were dying to known camps because of lacking mods.
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