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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Ultimatum
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Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#21 - 2014-11-23 18:00:57 UTC
Pieter is a perfect angel of Morality, dear. Not sure if you're up to date on things but Pyre doesn't do that whole Network business. Besides, don't lie to me and say you wouldn't celebrate when two enemies of yours fought against eachother.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#22 - 2014-11-23 18:05:24 UTC
What Pyre does now is in question, given their current stock of employees.
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#23 - 2014-11-23 18:11:30 UTC
Pyre Falcon provides tactical assistance to the 24th's Military and Logistical goals against the enemies in the Amarrian and Minmatar Factional Warzone space. Our use of competatively priced Frigates, Destroyers, and Cruisers combined with Veteran pilots and crews allow us to deliver a high efficiency service to the Crusade, the Empress, and the Imperial people as a whole. Also we get to claim to be Allies with PIE, and the looks on their faces is worth the price of admission.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#24 - 2014-11-23 18:26:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
I don't need to move the entire Empire. If I take one of my kin back, I've succeeded. If I take two, I've succeeded. If I take a million, I've succeeded. If I can make one Holder understand that for him, it'll cost dearly if he does not find a better path, I've succeeded. If I inspire a baseliner to voice support for freedom, I've succeeded. If a slave stands up and refuses to live on his knees, I've succeeded.

I don't have to move the entire Empire. I won the day I was no longer bound by it. They need to move, if they want an end to our efforts.

Besides, as your fellow Sansha loyalist here shows, PY-RE is turning out to be home to worse than the Empire ever has been. I doubt you are in a position to give advice on neither morality, ethics or even practicality as showcased above.


What am I supposed to do with this? You just moved your goalposts from the unachievable to the already achieved in the space of two posts. Congratulations! A winner is you - according to your new definition - so, here's the question, why are you still playing the game so hard?

And, yes, we have some real monsters in Pyre Falcon. Vincent Price, Kalaratiri, Utsukushi, Tiberious Thessalonia and his assorted mob of Sansha Loyalists. But here's the thing, Mizhara - they all did evil in a cause. Just like you. That makes them all monsters - just like you.

I used to be a genuinely good man, so I can say this with some authority. From where a genuinely good man stands in objective judgement the difference between Ushra-Khan and Pyre Falcon cannot even be seen on the clearest of days. The difference only exists in the lines you draw in your own head and in the justification your imagined ends grant your ever-so dubious means.

The secret to morality is this - the big picture is fable. Good things you do for evil reasons remain good things, but do not make YOU good. Evil things you do for good reasons remain evil and your intentions do not absolve you of their stain. The only thing that makes you good is the good you do out of genuinely altruistic reasons. As we know, the cluster contains roughly equal amounts of selfless altruism and pixie dust.

Why haven't I screamed and shouted and left Pyre Falcon when my boss invited in the monsters? Because we already were monsters and everywhere else I could go was run by and full of monsters too. What was the point, at the end of the day, in pretending I'm better than Tiberious or Vincent, just because I've never tortured an innocent, drugged her and then murdered her in public to make a political point? Like you advocated doing, just now.

Tch. Ethics is HARD isn't it?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#25 - 2014-11-23 18:30:32 UTC
For extra comedy, I'll point out that Mizhara was one of the Angry Minmatar Terrorists that I mentioned in my previous post.

You know, the ones that murdered or sold Republic citizens.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Anslo
Scope Works
#26 - 2014-11-23 18:32:12 UTC
Ooooh this is getting good.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#27 - 2014-11-23 23:28:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Gaven Lok'ri
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Also we get to claim to be Allies with PIE, and the looks on their faces is worth the price of admission.


You can, of course, claim whatever you want.

I also fully expect that our faces will maintain their usual stoic disposition regardless of the nonsense Sansha Supporters inevitably spew.

Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade

Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#28 - 2014-11-23 23:56:20 UTC
You're all monsters. This universe is full of monsters.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2014-11-24 01:28:59 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
You're all monsters. This universe is full of monsters.


Cool! Does that mean I get to wear a rubber giant monster suit and rampage on cardboard cities?

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#30 - 2014-11-24 01:31:59 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
You're all monsters. This universe is full of monsters.


I don't think I'm a monster.......
Vincent Pryce
Damnation Angels
Watch This
#31 - 2014-11-24 02:46:04 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
You're all monsters. This universe is full of monsters.


I don't think I'm a monster.......


What you think does not change the fact of what you are.

You merely mimic humanity, but you are no longer part of it. You may emulate the morality of humanity, but deep down we all know we no longer are able to truly abide by it. The sooner you accept it, the easier the adjustment to your new existence will be.

You can respect humanity, or try to safeguard it against the depredations of others, but like the others you are a monster, a different breed than the others wearing different tags, but a monster nonetheless.

"He who makes a beast out of himself,gets rid of the pain of being a human"

That is a choice you made and unwittingly accepted when you became a capsuleer. Now embrace and accept it, to humanity - this is what you already are.

"From your Curse we made Heaven for ourselves."

Domination Seraphim

Cartel approved, Heaven blessed
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#32 - 2014-11-24 03:11:46 UTC
So having some (fleeting) sense of morality holds nothing towards maintaining humanity? No one was born a monster, you weren't, I wasn't. What we choose to become is what defines that. And to be clear I'm referring to our own actions, not to becoming a capsuleer. Whether your a monster in the eyes of another is something entirely.Though I'd believe your actions are justified in your eyes, as are mine in my eyes.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#33 - 2014-11-24 03:16:11 UTC
A man once told me over a glass of vodka and a cigar:

There is such a thing as the banality of evil. The first few kills, they're the hardest ones, the ones you remember for the rest of your life. You think it's the most difficult thing to do. Then one day you look into the faces of the people you are about to condemn and know it's the simplest thing to pull the trigger, and one or a million it's all the same in the end.

I didn't need the hydrostatic capsule implants to eventually realize the truth in the practical wisdom of a Civire.

Take it from me though, I only hope the executioner in question at least put a tarpaulin down first and used a subsonic hollowpoint round because there's nothing professional or decorous in having blood stuck in the fibres of a nice carpet.

Does no one ever think of the carpets?

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2014-11-24 03:28:10 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
A man once told me over a glass of vodka and a cigar:

There is such a thing as the banality of evil. The first few kills, they're the hardest ones, the ones you remember for the rest of your life. You think it's the most difficult thing to do. Then one day you look into the faces of the people you are about to condemn and know it's the simplest thing to pull the trigger, and one or a million it's all the same in the end.

I didn't need the hydrostatic capsule implants to eventually realize the truth in the practical wisdom of a Civire.

Take it from me though, I only hope the executioner in question at least put a tarpaulin down first and used a subsonic hollowpoint round because there's nothing professional or decorous in having blood stuck in the fibres of a nice carpet.

Does no one ever think of the carpets?



We are in space. Why not just send them all out of the airlock without pressurised suits?

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#35 - 2014-11-24 03:38:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Elmund Egivand wrote:


We are in space. Why not just send them all out of the airlock without pressurised suits?


Oh, no doubt I would agree. Vacuum induced asphyxiation and the disposal of the remains through atmospheric cremation by opening aforementioned airlock in an adjusted decay orbit of a suitable planetary object is in my view the most efficient and hassle-free means available to a capsuleer desiring to execute someone.

It does however lack that certain expected emotional impact desired by those performing one of those propaganda of the deed PR stunts, you know?

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#36 - 2014-11-24 05:01:01 UTC
See, here is the thing.

As a capsuleer, you are a weapon - whether you embrace that truth or not. Flying warships is what you do, better than anyone. Now it is true that you don't have to embrace that potential, but most of us do. I hunt other capsuleers, but I've still slaughtered more baseliners than a thousand serial killers. Those of you who make your money killing non-pod ships? That is worse.

So, you're either a killer or a wallhanger. Most of us succumb to the lure of a cause.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-11-24 06:22:42 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Hmm. On the one side I could vow for every innocent this terrorist is verified to kill that I would execute and biomass 10 slaves or PoW of Matari origin I have in my personal posession, because **** whoever made that video. Or I could cheer at the death of a Capsuleer, one who would've probably become an enemy of mine. Gosh, decisions... Maybe both?

Then you will be no better than them, Ms. Polevhia.
According to the basic justice principle you can't sentence those, who didn't commit the crime, if you know that it was committed by others.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Karynn Denton
Lekhantsi Salvage Depot
#38 - 2014-11-24 07:06:36 UTC
"Monsters"
"Good"
"Evil"

Strange terms to be throwing about in a supposedly adult conversation.

Karynn Denton

Caravan Master
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#39 - 2014-11-24 08:29:01 UTC
Karynn Denton wrote:
"Monsters"
"Good"
"Evil"

Strange terms to be throwing about in a supposedly adult conversation.

If I was a drug dealer, I'd probably try and convince myself of that too. Sadly I was a cop before I was a capsuleer, so about the only naivety I had left at graduation was that good and evil picked sides and that monsters didn't speak Napaani.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#40 - 2014-11-24 08:32:02 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Karynn Denton wrote:
"Monsters"
"Good"
"Evil"

Strange terms to be throwing about in a supposedly adult conversation.

If I was a drug dealer, I'd probably try and convince myself of that too. Sadly I was a cop before I was a capsuleer, so about the only naivety I had left at graduation was that good and evil picked sides and that monsters didn't speak Napaani.

Monsters speak language originated on Luminaire VI.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.