Player Features and Ideas Discussion

A: Moon minerals introduce no money into the EVE economy. It's all just money trading hands between players, and the associated transactions fees associated with it. In that it functions as a slight sink, through market transactions, invention and copy costs, production lines required to make t2 items, etc. Faction mods and deadspace mods from nullsec? They create NO isk. The only things in nullsec that actually PRODUCE isk is the guys on the bottom ratting and the rare soul running missions in NPC space.

I guess if you are concerned with nullsec's "influence" over the market that might be a semi-genuine concern, but ever since the heavy anomaly spawning/contents over the past few years, the vast majority of Nullsec is fairly useless for making money. Fighting over moons and the relatively few pockets of usable space are the few things keeping nullsec on the right side of borderline inhabitable, especially post-Phoebe.

Just take a look at a poor security space region to see the activity level of poor space.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Great_Wildlands#kills24

A few years ago Nullsec was a place where you could generate high level anomalies for line members anywhere you wanted in sov space and move stuff in and out with ease. Then they restricted decent anom generation to only systems with excellent security levels. Then they nerfed the anoms themself, so that all decent sites spawned a number of elite scrambler frigs and fewer BS's to make it more dangerous adn less profitable to run them. Then they nerfed jump drives and added jump fatigue so that moving supplies in and out of nullsec, especially deep nullsec is now an extremely difficult procedure. Don't forget allowing all POS's to compress ore, previously an activity occupied by the use of the Rorqual in nullsec and WH's.

All while doing things like adding incursions, adding marauders for even better highsec mission running, compression arrays, better ships for hauling stuff around highsec (Bowhead), mining barge changes, clone tags for lowsec dwellers, and other QoL changes for high/lowsec.

So when I say that of all the things that might be worrisome in this game, that nullsec "controls a majority of the moon goo market" (A majority, but there are a lot of lowsec moons as well), is honestly very very low on the list of problems.

Nullsec has become steadily more and more difficult to make a full time living in over the past few years without resorting to isk making highsec alts. Maybe for once it's time for highsec to pitch in a bit and get hit with an income nerf bat if excessive system wide isk flow is really an issue.

*end rant* I just get tired of people constantly acting like nullsec is all roses and sunshine and that if any sacrifices must be made nullsec should make them, when we have steadily been getting into a worse and worse spot for people who live in nullsec and make their money there for years.

Eve has already become space Zimbabwe. I remember when battleships started at 55million. You try getting one for that price now.

Meanwhile mission runners haven't seen a single is increase in mission rewards or npc bounty payouts.

Mission runners are paying for the pvp of nullsec.

How about giant black holes randomly appearing around null formed from dark bank matter that suck isk directly from peoples wallets when they reach the recession eveny horizon?

Removing Insurance is not real isk sink.
It is just a way to remove one of the many ISK is flowing into the system.

ISK sink is a place where for isk you get something.
The best example are the missions and the LP points.

For example you buy from LP store BPC for a ship.
You not only have to have enough LP points but also ISK that is part of the payment , and as you give this isk to NPC corp, it is removed from the game.

Next example is the SOV bill , all isk you pay to concord is removed from the system.

That is the goal, create or boost ISK sinks.

I don't agree.
It is better to create new ways to spend this isk on stuff bought from NPC corps, and increase the SOV bill.

Exactly.

I'd even consider going so far as to remove all direct ISK rat bounties and replace them with tags or nexus chips or some other item. Then have almost all the ISK enter the game through NPC buy orders for those items. Then you have to transport your items somewhere to get the full value, which adds a good amount of risk to the whole affair. I'd accompany this with a change to NPC's to make them tougher, fewer, and worth more.

Let's consider that the OP was suggesting ISK sinks as a means of making market goods more affordable for new players.

Suggestions such as removing insurance, removing bounties for rats, docking fees, and toll gates only make things less affordable for newer players. We should consider that the majority of ISK being made and not spent comes from station traders that never undock. The insurance payouts, ratting bounties, etc. do not increase with inflation. They are also a small reward for the people that actually do undock and take a bit of risk. However, station traders are the ones directly responsible for inflation, buying things for a low price and relisting them for a higher price.

My suggestion would be:

1. Link station transaction taxes with a system's security status.

Let's say a 10% tax in a 1.0 system, 5% in a 0.5 system, 2% in a 0.2 system, and so on. The reason you are paying for these higher taxes is because CONCORD needs to be paid somehow. If you aren't willing to provide your own security, expect to have to pay for the privilege. This is the way things work in the 'real world'. If you want to live downtown and use the services such as Police, Firefighters, streetlights and so on, you have to pay taxes. If you don't want to pay taxes, you can head out into the low sec world of crime, or the null sec world of the frontier. Taxes are lower or non existent, but you have to provide your own security.

2. Consumables.

Currently the only consumables in game are drugs, and possibly ships that get blown up from time to time. Why is there no food and drink in the future? This would be like 'jump fatigue' for manufacturers and station traders. When docked and logged in, a character would have a hunger bar that slowly goes down. When the bar gets to zero, an attribute penalty is incurred unless a food item is purchased and/ or consumed from your station hangar. Consumable alcoholic beverages would also be a fun addition. A certain amount of alcohol would add to your hunger bar, but drinking too much would cause you to slur you speech over voice comms and fumble actions. Once you undock, the hunger bar no longer affects you until you dock again.

3. Gambling

This was apparently in game once but was removed, so it's unlikely. However, in station gambling would be a good ISK sink.

4. Black Market

Also apparently removed from the game. However, there are some items that are considered contraband by certain factions. Despite this, these items are still available for sale within the trade hubs of those systems. Why should I be able to buy a Blood Raider ship in Amarr, Emperor station? This makes no sense. Make these contraband items only available in low or null sec. Make smuggling a viable career option.

5. Insurance actuators.

I also think that ship insurance should be buffed enough to replace lost ships in high sec, but travel to low sec and null sec would invalidate the insurance. Doesn't this reflect the way insurance works in the real world? Insurance is linked to risk. High sec mining would be considered a lesser risk than low sec combat, therefore the insurance would be cheaper and the payoff higher. Gankers and pirates could still shoot targets in high sec, but the ability to completely replace the cost of a lost ship would result in a lot less butthurt at getting ganked. Pirates get their targets, miners and mission runners can replace their ships, industrialists sell more ships.

I wouldn't remove insurance for PVP ships. I have changed my mind about that, I would however, probably link the risk with the payout. Newbies also get involved in PVP in low sec, so removing it completely would only penalize those that choose to fight as opposed to mine or haul in high sec. I would however, buff the insurance payout for high sec industrial non combat ships.

True, people don't get insurance for things that are perfectly safe. However, if the risks increase isn't there a corresponding increase in premiums as well? That is what an insurance actuator does, they calculate premiums based on risk.

Does a twenty five year old hot shot with a sports car and a prior driving while intoxicated conviction pay the exact same rate of auto insurance as a fifty year old who has driven for thirty years without a single accident?

So, how does it make sense that a PVP pilot in a combat frigate heading for low security space pays and gets the same payout as a high sec hauler?

Insurance really isn't a problem though, since it generally only covers the cost of T1 ships. The payout for tech 2 ships isn't high enough to justify the cost of insuring them, so the people that are flush with ISK usually don't even bother with it.

How about calls like "It doesn't help that much, remove it" be left to people who fly and lose expensive ships like capitals, or at least fly and lose many less expensive ships on a regular basis instead of people like you or me whom by our killboards, putter around with groups of people in subcaps shooting other people and getting SRP'd for losses?

"I don't need it so might as well get rid of it" is never an appropriate reason for making drastic changes.

I don't do Incursions. I have 0 interest in doing incursions, and thus 0 stake in what happens to them.

Nerf them all by 75% income!

Except for certain things that have to stay NPC sourced to allow for growth.

Also Null Sec accounts for over 50% of all the Isk Faucets in the game, Bounties being the largest isk faucet by a huge margin and nearly all bounties coming from Null.
WH's are the second biggest isk faucet with NPC buy orders (Which actually just got increased).

The isk faucet from high sec stuff is way down the list, and high sec stuff also comes with it's own built in isk sinks as well.
So lets have less of this myth about high sec being behind any inflation.

Of course, it also appears to be a myth that there is any inflation at the moment, with CCP having introduced a new HUGE isk sink in the form of industry build costs, and also slightly bumped a faucet.
So..... anyone who thinks we need to change anything for inflation, feel free to produce some actual proof the problem exists.
Right now you are all proposing 'solutions' which suit your personal play style and nerf other people without an actual problem.