These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Isn't it time for CONCORD to re-draw their map?

Author
Nullbeard Rager
Doomheim
#41 - 2011-12-14 19:20:12 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Shivus Tao wrote:


Except lowsec is the opposite of that. The rats are not "better enough" compared to level 4's to justify the risk of ganks. There are only a handful of systems dedicated for gud fites, even there it's a miracle when it's actually a good fight and not a bait and blob. Trade in the state of eve is a very small nice, and anyone that does trade runs through lowsec regularly likely does so in a blockade runner.


Trust me, the farther out you go, the more profitable it gets. Out in null it can get ridiculous, I can make what I did in a day of lvl 4s in maybe 15-20 minutes, and I know people who went from basically broke to flying a brand new carrier in just under 2 weeks. The risk of ganks is always tiny if you are actually aware of your surroundings and know how to react properly.


Perhaps you could start a thread to explain this to all the nullbears looking for welfare? They seem to think they are underpaid and unappreciated.

Field of Trolls:  "If you chum it, they will come."

Alexa Coates
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2011-12-14 21:11:12 UTC
Op's idea is good. For the people trying to force everyone into null/low, go f'k yourself. People (like me) want to play our way, not yours.

That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers.

Mistress Motion
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2011-12-14 21:34:42 UTC
The problem would be ofcourse, how you would determine the sec status. Quick thinking about this:

Nullsec sec status would slowly rise in systems where people rat a lot, and no pod kills happen. That would force ratters to move a bit every now and then. Because the majority of nullsec is mostly quiet, the sec status would drop down slowly due to pirate faction presence. That would actually buff nullsec in terms of single pilot income, and considering that majority of normal null 'grunts' don't even have any idea about moon goo and how much isk flows through it, it wouldn't necessarily be bad thing. It would ofcourse also mean that people would have to spread their ratting, and would be more vulnerable to PVP there. And ofcourse if there's a system which has lot of ratters, and constant player brawls, the truesec would remain low for those who want to risk it (a little bit more thinking needed for this, since no-one would go rat there as there would be so much low truesec everywhere).

Highsec status would have to be affected by a number of things. Considering kills, the data is already there to see the average pilots and pod kills per last 24h, so for example Jita wouldn't lose its sec status since there's so much people there, and only that much kills. (Rough example would be avg pilots / kills = sec status change, so assume Jita 1500 pilots, and 200 kills makes 1500/200 = 7.5, compared to Uitra at the moment, 82 pilots / 285 kills = ~0.28. Should ofcourse be real averages, and numbers should be tweaked to see what are the boundaries where sec status starts to dive, or go up.)

Ofcourse one great problem would be corp POS's in hisec (standings issues) and lowsec moon mining. POS's would also be a greater problem if the sec status could dive from 0.5 to 0.4.

Just thinking about these, not necessarily a fine suggestions or anything.
Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#44 - 2011-12-14 21:36:30 UTC
If CCP is smart, the future of Sov. is reactive Sov., which changes dependign on not just shooting big hp-heavy structures, but based on ALL the activity and space infrastructure within that system. A sliding scale system of "influence control", not the current system of timers and shooting large hp-meatshields. A reactive system would encourage smaller holdings, and more active defense, and more living in the systems you own, i.e. works against afk empires and empty-but-owned systems.

That kind of system would be hard to create, but worth it in the long run health of EVE. And best of all, it could be adapted to other purposes.....like Faction Warfare low-sec Sov. and change-over-time security status of low and null-sec systems, better or worse as player action drives it.

But with that said, I don't support much change to CONCORD. Their mandate is protecting High-Sec, and that is the one section of space I'd not want to see change, for many reasons, gameplay and RP.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#45 - 2011-12-14 21:46:18 UTC
I wouldn't mind seeing faction warfare actually fight to claim systems for their racial faction.. Have a something similar to the Caldari/Gallente war happen on all the border overlays with reactive Sov. There should more then definitely be a hard cap for how far a system could fall, and how quickly.. going from a 1.0/0.9 to .02 overnight would be extreme..

This would give a bit of immersion to the rise and fall of the NPC Corporations, Shifting regional factional territories and other dynamic occurances in High Sec. Make factions mean something other then 'Oooh Jump Clones and Loyalty points'; give the Amarr/Minmatar RP Tools something to actually fight about.

A little fine tuning and this could be an amazing thing for the game itself.
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2011-12-14 23:56:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Bubanni
I think a dynamic sec status would be better... my idea would not change high, low or null into different sec but just change the exact number based on activity

Basicly all high sec systems would increase in sec status based on average people in system and pve done (decreasing the value but also making it more safe) if a system is not being used the sec status will drop down over time

High sec system will only vary from 0.5-1
Low sec system only vary from 0.1-0.4

Null sec will be same principal

The higher the pve and average players in system the worse the true sec... will the less presence the better true sec... again, dynamic over time

So a heavy ratted system will slowly become a 0.0 system, and a empty system will slowly become a -1.0

I think the change from one side to the other should take about a month, but the plus side is complete empty worthless regions will slowly become more valuable while others slowly become worth less

All this in 0.0 will give a nice dynamic incentive to moving around a little more. Spread out more and such

Roleplaying wise... you could say It's because the players are driving out the rats slowly, and they are taking foothold els were...

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934

Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#47 - 2011-12-15 00:32:54 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
I think a dynamic sec status would be better... my idea would not change high, low or null into different sec but just change the exact number based on activity

Basicly all high sec systems would increase in sec status based on average people in system and pve done (decreasing the value but also making it more safe) if a system is not being used the sec status will drop down over time

High sec system will only vary from 0.5-1
Low sec system only vary from 0.1-0.4

Null sec will be same principal

The higher the pve and average players in system the worse the true sec... will the less presence the better true sec... again, dynamic over time

So a heavy ratted system will slowly become a 0.0 system, and a empty system will slowly become a -1.0

I think the change from one side to the other should take about a month, but the plus side is complete empty worthless regions will slowly become more valuable while others slowly become worth less

All this in 0.0 will give a nice dynamic incentive to moving around a little more. Spread out more and such

Roleplaying wise... you could say It's because the players are driving out the rats slowly, and they are taking foothold els were...



Essentially what I was going for, but much better wording.

Low-Sec would need a bit of a buff on the lower end to rats and what not, having the local rats jumbled about a bit wouldn't take to much of a stretch, but giving players a reason to go after it however would be great. Give low sec random duration static plexes (on everyone's overview), fixing gate guns to do damage based on ship type (make smaller then BC possible), combine the local residency's mean sec status average to the shifting of the system sec (a system full of pirates should send a system's sec plummeting)... so many possibilities..

Reactive Sov would be amazing..
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2011-12-15 00:37:46 UTC
You guys really don't see where incentivising alliances to make large tracts of dead space is gonna lead?
Ankh
Doomheim
#49 - 2011-12-15 10:30:48 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
hullo Ankhamasenkpth


how are things in holland and how is the pirate bay party doing


Wrong on all counts... there's quite a few Ankh~'s in the game, I'm not the ~numpty one.

English, not Dutch.

Veteran of the _Coalition of Free Stars Alliance **_and **The Big Blue.

**CALDARI MEN ARE BORING!    **Matari girls always give the best pew-pew.

Eyup Mi'duck
Doomheim
#50 - 2011-12-15 10:56:46 UTC
Malcom Dax wrote:
Interesting idea. But many people would rage.


Ohhh yes. Please! The game is far too static atm.

Maybe CONCORD could pilot this idea in a small area, see what happens.

I am me.         I am not you.     I have my own thoughts.     I am very happy with this situation.

Farethria
Perkone
Caldari State
#51 - 2011-12-15 17:13:46 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
You guys really don't see where incentivising alliances to make large tracts of dead space is gonna lead?


If access to null sec isn't impossible, and the space itself has a very porous border, then I expect them to have to run patrols constantly to keep the area from being trespassed. They have the numbers, they can do it, and frankly I think they should be compelled to do so to hold large areas. However getting off their butt, and neglecting their fat rat kills will probably lead to a lot of whining.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#52 - 2011-12-15 17:30:46 UTC
I still think its a great idea, and further pushes the envelope on the game being 'by the players, for the players'.

Reactive Sov could lead to fixing other areas of low interest (i.e. Low Sec, FW) and would encourage more small gang pvp, more roaming, more time in ships, less in stations... and in general causes the players in those areas to visit the out of the way places and what not.

More player movement is definitely a good thing.
Jack bubu
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2011-12-15 17:36:53 UTC
Ankh wrote:
Bumblefck wrote:
hullo Ankhamasenkpth


how are things in holland and how is the pirate bay party doing


Wrong on all counts... there's quite a few Ankh~'s in the game, I'm not the ~numpty one.

English, not Dutch.

Well your idea certainly is as terrible as hers where
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#54 - 2011-12-15 18:05:53 UTC
sec status should be dynamic

and based upon how many 'npc's were killed

heh... say goodbye to nulsec :p

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION

Elson Tamar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2011-12-15 18:24:32 UTC
What an actual change in geo political maps that reacts to players actions!

My god that would be cool.

CCP i'll do the data entry if it makes it happen.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#56 - 2011-12-15 18:51:57 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
sec status should be dynamic

and based upon how many 'npc's were killed

heh... say goodbye to nulsec :p


System class should stay relatively stable, Highsec staying High, Lowsec Staying Low, and Null staying Null in most instances.

The swap from .5 -> .4 or .1 to -0.01 or vice versa should happen after a concentrated series of incidents, suicide ganks, pod kills, and ratting/mission running can all affect this. Even undealt with Incursions could potentially lower system security ratings.
The Null to Low swap should only happen in a system with no Sov Structures present, and has been unclaimed for some time.

My main interest in reactive sov is that it would create a more mobile playerbase, with people traveling to get to the good systems, and possibly people defending/locking down the good systems, for their alliance or corp. Regardless of Hi/Low/Null this unlocks a variety of play style options, gives PvP and PvE players something to do, creates more oppurtunities for services (Exploration, Mercs, Transporting/Freight) and will remove the 'Jita is the center of New Eden' mentality.

If nothing else it would create a bit more immersion, and generally satisfy everyone.

yopparai
ASTARTES CORP
Hashashin Cartel
#57 - 2011-12-15 19:09:44 UTC
Why should concord go protect some punk a$$ sov holders in null-sec?
Dr Karsun
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
#58 - 2011-12-15 21:05:24 UTC
Move to F&I please.

And +1 for elastic concord boarders!

"Have you had your morning coffee?" -> the Coffee Lovers Brewing Club is recruiting! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=363976#post363976

Long John Silver
Doomheim
#59 - 2011-12-15 23:19:37 UTC
I like this idea.

Some consequences need to be thought through eg: changing sec status and POS's Straight, capital ships based in systems that change to hi-sec Twisted and busy moon goo places, but the idea of an evolving security pattern sounds great.

Maybe keep the total number of hi-, low- and null-sec systems about the same, but let the distribution move about a bit to reflect changing player patterns.

**Long John Silver **| Pirate Alt and Forum Troll.

Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2011-12-16 00:00:54 UTC
I think Null should stay null unless you introduce something like incursions where say, the amarr Empire decides to annex your **** due to the success of your alliance. Concord's mandate is the protection of the Empire space holdings, not nullsec.

For concord to get involved you have to have negotiated the police/peacekeeper deal with concord. This isn't for players.

But Nullsec should remain nullsec.

Any nullsec system annexed by an empire faction should have the ability for a player corp/alliance to assault and retake/conquer the system. And as a counterpoint there should be a peppering of lowsec systems in the empires flagged as conquerable by player corps... Perfect for a corp that wants to go to war every week and have "rats" that are incursions by the empire that lost the space rather than the standard drone/gurista/sansha/shootmenow/etc.

The only "security status" shifting should be wholly contained inside space claimed by the big four, to include things like the ammatar or khanid.

Nullsec should never become 1.0 space.

Just because you don't like nullsec doesn't mean the playstyles of (god help me) the Goonswarm should be invalidated.

There must always be capturable territory

And there should never be any way to manipulate the map to remove nullsec and make the entire EVE space carebear friendly.

But some sovereignty fluidity would be nice.