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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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ISK SINKS WE NEED - Post your ideas here.

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Author
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Silky Cyno
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#41 - 2014-11-21 22:19:44 UTC
We can rename eve to nickel and dime you to death online.
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2014-11-22 00:25:46 UTC
Clone death costs.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
Zmikund
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2014-11-22 00:41:17 UTC
Some new and very expensive stuff for LP stores could be nice ... maybe genolution implant set, t2 capital mods etc ...
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#44 - 2014-11-22 01:18:15 UTC
The market disagrees that inflation is taking place.
Plex may be rising due to supply & demand, this does not mean inflation is happening.

At last report we had slight deflation AND since then we have had a huge sink in the form of manufacturing introduced.

So before suggesting additional sinks or nerfs of faucets, please produce evidence we need them.
Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2014-11-22 01:39:48 UTC
With ship painting a possibility I would love to see that cost a solid amount for each paint job applied. Say 5-10% the cost of the ship. Then you can be sure that every time someone loses a painted ship they are truly destroying someones hard earned isk.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#46 - 2014-11-22 01:48:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
The market disagrees that inflation is taking place.
Plex may be rising due to supply & demand, this does not mean inflation is happening.

At last report we had slight deflation AND since then we have had a huge sink in the form of manufacturing introduced.

So before suggesting additional sinks or nerfs of faucets, please produce evidence we need them.


This. OP has yet to present any evidence that there is significant inflation in the economy or any real reason why we need more ISK sinks.

PLEX prices too high for you? Stop being cheap and pay a subscription instead of running all your accounts on PLEX. Reduce the demand a bit. Or buy some PLEX and sell it - increase the supply. Or do both. If more people paid their own subscriptions or sold PLEX the price would start to decrease. Instead we have people running 6 alts on PLEX, very few people selling them and ludicrously high prices.
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#47 - 2014-11-22 04:05:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Gadget Helmsdottir
I've been thinking about this for a bit.

With the soon-to-be loss of med-clone upgrades as a sink, something should at least replace it.

I like the gate toll idea actually. If I were to implement it, then the charge would be based on the AU of the jump with some part of it based on the standings of the pilot to the owner of the gates. Maybe with a skill later on to lower costs?

The charge would actually be rather light, maybe no more that maybe 1000 ISK at most for the longest jump with the worst standings. With good standings and short jumps, I can see around 1-200 ISK per jump. Pods and rookie ships would be exempt from this charge. This would allow for someone who is completely spacepoor to start from scratch.

This would take a small amount of ISK out of the game from each player using the gates, but would add up to remove a decent amount from the game overall. Plus, it can be circumvented by those who decide that the convenience of the gates isn't worth the toll: wormhole travel, jumpclones, jumpships, travelling via pod or rookie ship, and I'm sure there are other ways. Being able to avoid the gates is good in my book, because it allows choices for the player.

Those who might be hurt by this would be the freighter pilot -- but they can roll the expense into the the products being sold. Actually this applies to any pilot needing a great deal of jumps per day. However, I don't believe, that beyond the initial knee-jerk reaction of players to such a change, there would really be all that much of a difference in income for the pilot/manufacturer/miner or what have you. The tax is designed to be as little as possible to the individual. A mission runner is likely to spend much more on ammo in a salvo or two than his jumping for the whole day.

I can also see this as something that the corp tax could be used for in PC corps. Just turn your trip ticket into the CEO for reimbursement Blink

--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
Jackson Apollo
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-11-22 06:10:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jackson Apollo
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:

Actually this applies to any pilot needing a great deal of jumps per day.



FU buddy. (<--I usually like you [thats an emotional outburst])

I can make 150-200 jumps per day.

I already pay enough for that right.

EVE is already my second job (granted a job I like as much as my RL job).

I rather see all ships pay for gas so that it hits EVERYONE EQUALLY. (<---also stupid, also not really everyone equally, just more equally than stupid gate fees [+1 also makes AFK cloaking cost something])

LEAVE MY ISK ALONE! (<---best idea)
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#49 - 2014-11-22 06:35:15 UTC
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:
I've been thinking about this for a bit.


You shouldn't have..

Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:

With the soon-to-be loss of med-clone upgrades as a sink, something should at least replace it...


Why?

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#50 - 2014-11-22 06:38:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Gadget Helmsdottir
Jackson Apollo wrote:
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:

Actually this applies to any pilot needing a great deal of jumps per day.



FU buddy.

I can make 150-200 jumps per day.

I already pay enough for that right.

EVE is already my second job (granted a job I like as much as my RL job).

I rather see all ships pay for gas so that it hits EVERYONE EQUALLY. (<---also stupid, also not really everyone equally, just more equally than stupid gate fees)

LEAVE MY ISK ALONE! (<---best idea)


Really, sweetie. A direct attack?

You have no 'rights' in EvE. CCP can change the rules as they see fit. They can ban you for anything they want.
Scratch that. You have ONE right. You can Just. Not. Play.


As for my musings, the ISK amount was a random number that looked small on my end. If this idea were ever put into place, I'm sure CCP would take a good look at just who were using the gates: number of pilots and jumps, areas, ship types, and maybe even how often. They would then create some algorithm for the final toll.

Also, I forgot to add ship type to my little calculation. I think that smaller ships would pay less. Classes might be frigs/destroyers, cruisers/BC's, Battleships, Capitals while industrial ships would get a discount. After looking at it a second time (and without any actual data), my gut tells me that the actual toll would be much smaller than what I had originally threw in.

--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#51 - 2014-11-22 06:47:50 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:
I've been thinking about this for a bit.


You shouldn't have..

Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:

With the soon-to-be loss of med-clone upgrades as a sink, something should at least replace it...


Why?


/shrug
One of the problems in academia. I can't help but to think about things Smile

As for why the replacement. This is the purpose of this thread, right?

Maybe the Economy will survive quite well without that extra sink, maybe it won't.
Doesn't hurt to have a few ideas in mind should rampant inflation become a problem.
It's nice to be proactive. Thought costs us nothing. I'd rather have a few unneeded ideas in the works rather than discover EvE has become space Zimbabwe.

--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
Anthar Thebess
#52 - 2014-11-22 08:17:18 UTC
Stop linking this thread to Plex prices.

Plex are not usual item in eve.
Players don't produce them and they don't drop any where from PVE activity.

Plex price will be not affected by this.

If we cut isk generation by 50% and plex price drops by 50% it will really don't change any thing.
Base value will be still the same.

Yes this game needs new players.
But this inflation easily kills their initial experience.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2014-11-22 14:42:51 UTC
Increase ISK costs of items in LP store but keep LP costs the same. This'll drive up e.g. implant prices and not sure if this is desirable. I heard there's something happening in the implant/HW/booster world so I'd wait for that to see what happens.

Jump clones could to pay a small rent (installation cost per week?) or install cost could be bumped to 1-10 Mil.

Base broker fees multiplied by 3 or 5.

Insurance cost tied to how much you've cashed out, maybe a linear f(x)=ln(x) scale on a moving 30-day window. Only payouts would affect this and base payments for uninsured ships would not affect this.

Base insurance costs could be removed.

Reprocessing/refinery base tax, maybe 5 isk per 1m3. This has a chance of rising the prices of goos by some degree but would be a permanent raise in expenses. This would come down to about 900k per hour in refinery charges with an orca boosted miner. Slight dip in ISK/h but not massive.

Or just tax EVERYTHING in hisec and lowsec, let station owners tax as freely as they now can in nullsec.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2014-11-22 15:59:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Stop linking this thread to Plex prices.

Plex are not usual item in eve.
Players don't produce them and they don't drop any where from PVE activity.

Plex price will be not affected by this.

If we cut isk generation by 50% and plex price drops by 50% it will really don't change any thing.
Base value will be still the same.

Yes this game needs new players.
But this inflation easily kills their initial experience.


What inflation?

If you are not using plex's as a thing to point to that "OMG LOOK AT INFLATION", then what are you pointing at?

Because a Rupture is roughly 1 mil more than it was when I purchased my first rupture FIVE YEARS AGO!
Dreadnaughts seem to cost about the same as they always have, same with carriers.
Mineral baskets are as always fluctuating, on a slightly higher than expected due to consumption and speculation about the fledgling wars in nullsec.

Battleships cost considerable more, but that's mainly because the the mineral production requirement changes when they underwent tieracide.

Everyone's going "Oh let's do this to fix inflation" "This would work great as a drastic sink to curb inflation" "Blah blah blah solve inflation"

WHAT INFLATION?? Can someone for the love of Cthulu please point me to a single source that indicates that EVE is undergoing inflation AT ALL? Cause I'm not seeing it.
NFain
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2014-11-22 16:31:49 UTC
Plex4insurance? Twisted
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#56 - 2014-11-22 17:32:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
Do Dr. Eyjog and his team still publish reports on the EVE economy? If not, that's too bad. If so, perhaps some of the Chicken Littles in this thread (and the others like it) should read them before playing Amateur Armchair Economist and declaring that the proverbial sky is falling.

As an additional hint: When the price of an item increases because it costs more to make (battleships/battlecruisers requiring significantly more minerals to manufacture), that is not inflation. Inflation is the price of everything going up simply because there's too much money in circulation for any of it to be worth anything. That is not what we have here in EVE.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2014-11-22 17:36:29 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Do Dr. Eyjog and his team still publish reports on the EVE economy? If not, that's too bad. If so, perhaps some of the Chicken Littles in this thread (and the others like it) should read them before playing Amateur Armchair Economist and declaring that the proverbial sky is falling.



Eyjog took a position at some prestigious Icelandic University a while back. Your point still applies though, there are a ton of people here with solutions in search of a problem that nobody has shown exists yet.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2014-11-22 18:30:43 UTC
I don't buy inflation hurting newbies.

All the NPC drops, exploration junk, minerals spike....big deal their relative income is the same.

It only actually hurts direct isk injection: bounties (and WH buy orders).
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#59 - 2014-11-22 22:41:29 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
This game really needs good isk sink.
Currently economy is slowly falling because prices are growing and growing.

Reasons for current situations are many :
- ships where boosted , more dps = faster and more efficient ratting
- smart bombing ratting fleets are all around renter space became quite common
- ships are dying ( each lost ship don't remove isk from game, just create it from the air )
- etc

Some drastic measures needs to be put in place.
This also have to be done without harming any current system - like LP Stores, or missions.
Please post your ideas here , maybe some Dev will look at this and put some of your ideas into actions


EDIT:
Please stop linking this thread to raising PLEX prices.
Plex is not created by players or obtained by any PVE activity.
If all people start to earn 50% less isk , and PLEX price will drop by 50% ,
there will be any real change for plex price.

There is no possibility that any ISK sink will reduce VALUE , again VALUE of the PLEX.
Price might drop, as there will be less isk, but it will be still MORE EXPENSIVE when you include your reduced
income.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The best isk sink in the universe is other players...

More PVP?

Other than that I want to see Rats ganking mining barges as in 0.5 space it's way to easy to survive any number of rats at a belt.

Make it cost more to do missions. Raise collateral through the roof!

Docking fees anyone?

Capsular permits from each empire, otherwise you wont be allowed to operate in their space etc.

Just a couple of quick ideas of the top of my head.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#60 - 2014-11-23 01:44:31 UTC
OK first the admission that I have not read every post in this topic I read about half of them so this may be a little off base.

Many of the things I read here would hurt our newest players the most. ideas like
No insurance
Fees to dock
Fees to keep your ship docked
Fees for using the NPC jump gates
Reduced incomes from missions etc
and the list goes on

Perhaps we need to look into nul sec first and foremost then tricked down(up) to high sec.
The large nul blocks with their monopolies on several of the materials critical to building everything but the simplest of ships and modules probably have far more influence on the markets than all of the high sec players combined. After all most high sec players have to pay what is asked, or simply not buy what they want.

The potential problems we have with the game economy are many and varied in both sources and affects and no one single idea will solve them especially if those ideas hit any one segment of the game harder than they do all others. I am not sure what the answers are but I do know what they answers cannot be. We cannot try to remedy this by putting all of the burdens onto high sec, just as we cannot remedy it by putting all of the burdens onto those in nul.

The only group of players that needs/deserves special care and attention in all of this are the newest players in our midst as they are always the ones hardest hit by changes like these.