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Hauling: Best defense against high sec pirates?
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Cephelange du'Krevviq
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#21 - 2014-11-18 18:05:47 UTC
Here's a basic suggestion for you; I'm sure others could provide other tweaks/suggestions.

[Tayra, Basic Hauler]
Inertia Stabilizers II
Damage Control II
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Power Diagnostic System II

Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Since the ganksters tend to be in Catalysts, that's why I slotted a Kinetic hardener instead of a second Invuln.

Here's the stats with one of my characters: http://imgur.com/BdylCnM

That fit allows you to haul a little over 8k m3 of goods with Caldari Industrial V.

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"
350125GO
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2014-11-18 18:16:55 UTC
you'd be much better off with low friction nozzle thingys in the rig slots, and istabs in the lows. You also left one mid slot empty, probably because you didn't have PG or CPU to fit anything else. An active tank (i.e. using a booster) is essentially useless on a t1 indy because you'll be popped before you can benefit from it. Add extenders and hardeners to to make it the largest passive tank you can get.

When flying through HS your tank only has to last long enough for Concord to show up and volley the ganker. You want it to be a deterrent, which is why active hardeners are good (they have a visible effect).

Seriously, you were hauling 240m3 worth of cargo with essentially no tank. Always forfeit cargo space for tank or alignment.

You're young, you'll adjust. I'm old, I'll get used to it.
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#23 - 2014-11-18 18:23:42 UTC
350125GO wrote:
you'd be much better off with low friction nozzle thingys in the rig slots, and istabs in the lows. You also left one mid slot empty, probably because you didn't have PG or CPU to fit anything else. An active tank (i.e. using a booster) is essentially useless on a t1 indy because you'll be popped before you can benefit from it. Add extenders and hardeners to to make it the largest passive tank you can get.

When flying through HS your tank only has to last long enough for Concord to show up and volley the ganker. You want it to be a deterrent, which is why active hardeners are good (they have a visible effect).

Seriously, you were hauling 240m3 worth of cargo with essentially no tank. Always forfeit cargo space for tank or alignment.


The issue with the low friction nozzle rigs is they reduce armor amount, which the Tayra has precious little of, anyway. The Tayra has 5 mid slots, which I have full (unless you were referring to the OP?)

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"
Paranoid Loyd
#24 - 2014-11-18 18:29:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
350125GO, Being able to align quickly wont do anything when a quick locking Nado is targeting you, you either have enough buffer to survive the alpha volley or you don't.


Cephelange, unless the hauler is autopiloting it is not feasible to use catalysts.

With hardeners and a damage control you have to always remember to turn them on immediately, that is why I recommend using all buffer with a T1 hauler as it takes about 2-4 ticks for the Nado to lock and Alpha you.

A full buffer fit Tayra gets about 19K EHP against a nado and 20k EHP against a Vexor which will be the two primary ships used to gank a hauler that is not autopiloting. Your fit with the hardeners and damage control turned off is 12K EHP against EMP, this may survive a Nado but it also may not.

This is idiot proof hauling but carries under 5k m3:

[Badger, 40K EHP / 4875 m3]
Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I
Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I
Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I
Compact Reactor Control Unit

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
EM Ward Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Idiot proof Tayra trades cargo capacity for tank but will still survive a single ganker:

[Tayra, 20K EHP / 9125 m3]
Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I
Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I
Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I
Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I

Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#25 - 2014-11-19 00:59:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
1806 m^3.

That should not be in an industrial, it should be in a Gnosis with a shield tank, a couple cargo mods and a damage control in the lows, and medium energy neutralizers.

Because noone expects the hauler Gnosis, but it's actually pretty good at moving 1-5k m^3 loads that have value. You have the tank to survive one Talos or two Vexors. If you get Catalyst swarmed, you can neut some of them and have a decent chance.

I still haven't got my alliance to shoot Gnosises on sight yet, but when I get caught in one and end up with a hilarious lossmail, that may start.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Paranoid Loyd
#26 - 2014-11-19 01:30:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Good call on the Gnosis, I don't ever scan those, not that I could take one solo anyway.
40K EHP and 5.8K m3 cargo, with a 5 second align time.

I guess the only downsides when comparing it to the Badger are the price tag and the warp speed. Neither of those factor into safety so it is the right choice.

Bonus, assuming someone does scan you and try to gank you, with the much higher scan res and ample left over power/cpu, you can put guns on it a hore on the gankers KM. I don't agree with the Neuts, unless you are autopiloting, the ganker(s) probably won't be in Neut range.

[Gnosis, Wat™]
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

200mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
[empty high slot]

Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I


Garde II x2

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#27 - 2014-11-19 01:41:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Cephelange du'Krevviq
[Gnosis, Spanish Inquisition]
Damage Control II
Inertia Stabilizers II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Phased Plasma M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Phased Plasma M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Phased Plasma M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Phased Plasma M
50W Infectious Power System Malfunction
50W Infectious Power System Malfunction

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Hobgoblin II x5
Warrior II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

1865 m3 cargo space, other stats: http://i.imgur.com/MkPBXpl.png?1

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2014-11-19 10:06:03 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Justin Zaine wrote:

It's difficult to cargo scan someone, take a look at their items, decide whether or not it's worth the gank and then lock and pop them before they have time to warp off.
For a single player yes, but any ganker that is in it for profit will have a dedicated scanner. So its not really hard, especially with a slow aligning hauler.

Kagura Nikon wrote:
NEVER AP on anything that is not a shutle.
This is terrible advice, just never autopilot ever unless you don't care about losing your pod.






Lies... unless youa re traveling a certain pipe your chances of being killed are near zero. I move my alts trough AP all time in shuttles, probably ranging up to hundreds of jumps per day combined for years.. never any one of them got killed.

Only when really bored people care to shoot at shuttles outside the evil commerce pipe.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Paranoid Loyd
#29 - 2014-11-19 14:48:27 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Justin Zaine wrote:

It's difficult to cargo scan someone, take a look at their items, decide whether or not it's worth the gank and then lock and pop them before they have time to warp off.
For a single player yes, but any ganker that is in it for profit will have a dedicated scanner. So its not really hard, especially with a slow aligning hauler.

Kagura Nikon wrote:
NEVER AP on anything that is not a shutle.
This is terrible advice, just never autopilot ever unless you don't care about losing your pod.






Lies... unless youa re traveling a certain pipe your chances of being killed are near zero. I move my alts trough AP all time in shuttles, probably ranging up to hundreds of jumps per day combined for years.. never any one of them got killed.

Only when really bored people care to shoot at shuttles outside the evil commerce pipe.

45 shuttles killed in highsec yesterday. 50 T1 indys killed.
Im not disagreeing that they mostly get killed in pipes but what you dont seem to understand is the majority of folks dont even know what a pipe is, so telling them it is OK to AP their shuttles is bad advice.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#30 - 2014-11-19 15:06:43 UTC
Also there are those special few thrasher pilots who seem to specialize in blaping shuttles and pods as they migrate between incursions.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#31 - 2014-11-19 21:47:08 UTC
Koweim Imm'Yka wrote:
I just got ganked for 300 million in cargo. Any advice on the best defense against being ganked in high sec by pirates? I'm flying an industrial ship, am I just vulnerable until I can pilot a freighter?

Thanks in advance for any help.


freighter wont matter if you ap or manually fly and you can have 0 isk of loot/mats in your hold and die in high sec

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#32 - 2014-11-20 09:51:46 UTC
Froggy Storm wrote:
Also there are those special few thrasher pilots who seem to specialize in blaping shuttles and pods as they migrate between incursions.



If you want to collect bounties, this is the way to do it.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#33 - 2014-11-20 10:56:54 UTC
Let the lesson begin.

First never use the auto pilot. Now for the ship You chose the badger 2 (yes Im old) which is a not bad hauler but you made some basic mistakes. Firstly you don't active tank your haulers, you want as much buffer as you can so the first order of the day is to drop the booster. The second big mistake you made was to anti-tank your ship. What is anti tank I hear you say?

Anti-tanking is when you add on mods that reduce your tank. This means the cargo expanders in your lows. Each one will reduce you hull HP by 20% and as we can see you have a lot of them. Now don't get me wrong, they are nice tools to have but for your cargo they arn't what you need. So what do you need?

[Tayra, Tayra fit]

Damage Control I
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Prototype Energized Explosive Membrane I
Prototype Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I

Medium Shield Extender I
EM Ward Field I
Thermic Dissipation Field I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Medium Shield Extender I

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Tanky enough to survive a single nado and upgradeable to t2 as and when your skills allow.

The final step is knowing the value of your cargo and what your tank can protect. The above ship cannot haul 300 mil safely, it can manage around 100 mil. If you want to transport 300 mil in subsystems and High-Tech Transmitters then your ship of choice would be the blockade runner. Its as close to uncatchable in high sec as your can get.
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#34 - 2014-11-21 07:33:24 UTC
I'll toss out a silly-seeming suggestion - for your smaller-sized cargoes, use a Magnate!

With one T1, and two T2 cargo rigs, and Cargo II's in the lows, you can haul about 1750 m3 for about 12 million fitted, with frigate agility. I've used one for moving moderately expensive stuff around with good success (so far).
Tore Smith
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-11-21 09:53:47 UTC
Im hauling in transport ships (blockade runner versions) and never on ap.

cargo space is more than sufficient and fitted for fast align times you are practically save from anything even without a tank.

in busy systems like jita use a bookmark for instant warps away from the station and do it fast so you wont get bumped.

like this ive transported billions and never got caught.
Aeryn Maricadie
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-11-21 22:11:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Aeryn Maricadie
Justin Zaine wrote:
Koweim Imm'Yka wrote:
I don't auto-pilot


Really?

It's difficult to cargo scan someone, take a look at their items, decide whether or not it's worth the gank and then lock and pop them before they have time to warp off.

Are you sure you weren't sitting afk on a gate or something?

Technically, you're vulnerable as long as the items in your cargo exceed the cost of the ships that are lost in the gank. Even then you're not safe, because lots of people don't gank for profit.

What Lyokus said was right, you didn't need any of those expanded cargohold mods on your ship. But only in a perfect world do we ever fit only as many cargo rigs as we need. Most people tend to fit for max cargo and just try to be as cautious as possible en-route by not autopiloting, so in that respect you didn't do anything "wrong" even though you could have taken further steps to prevent it.

If what you're saying about not autopiloting is true, then i'd say you're simply a victim of bad luck. Can't say i've seen too many people get their ship ganked while not autopiloting. Then again, I don't do ganks.

It is actually not that hard, the campers simply put someone in a freighter or other unassuming ship on one side of the gate to scan (with passive targeter so you never know) and they tell the gankers whether to shoot it when it lands or not.
Aeryn Maricadie
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2014-11-21 23:08:50 UTC
split loads up.

carry small blingy **** (faction/purple/melted nanoribbons/skillbooks/blue loot) in bait tanked combat ships

Stuff like normal Salvage, normal mods, Ammo, cheap skill books in the agility variant of the industrial (Nereus/badger)

ship hulls go in Tayra's or Bestowers (you can fit 3-4 Cruiser hulls in each respectively) but dont put other mods with them and dont haul anything but T-1's like this

For PI and Ore/Gas use the respective Gallente ships no one will normally gank these because its too much a pain to haul anything that drops (there are some who won't care especially if auto-piloting) Treat expensive Gas like Salvage

You can Also scout WH chains which is a great way to move **** especially if you have the cloaky transports and depending on how many trips you intend to make can save alot of time, just remember to never travel back through the chain so the residents (who ARE watching you) can't predict when you will come back through.

as far as fitting for tank dont use armor the agility penalty will be a right pain plus makes it more likely that you can't warp in time,
I prefer to use a mix of nanofiber/warp stabs, Warp stabs mean that more ships must be used which impacts ISK efficiency which increases the likelihood they will not attempt Nanofitting an agility Indy can get you down to a 4 sec align time on a Nereus which increases the likelihood they will fail to get all their points on you in time. Some of the Indy ships can fit a LASB which is better than an extender if you are traveling through low response time systems with the added benefit of not increasing your sig size, use resistance mods not more than one extender especially if you mount shield rigs
Paranoid Loyd
#38 - 2014-11-21 23:41:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Aeryn Maricadie wrote:
the campers simply put someone in a freighter or other unassuming ship on one side of the gate to scan (with passive targeter so you never know) and they tell the gankers whether to shoot it when it lands or not.
Oh really? How do you fit scanning mods to a freighter?
Scanners are in frigates, anything else (except a skiff) will have too low of a scan res to operate efficiently.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Aeryn Maricadie
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2014-11-22 03:29:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Aeryn Maricadie
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Aeryn Maricadie wrote:
the campers simply put someone in a freighter or other unassuming ship on one side of the gate to scan (with passive targeter so you never know) and they tell the gankers whether to shoot it when it lands or not.
Oh really? How do you fit scanning mods to a freighter?
Scanners are in frigates, anything else (except a skiff) will have too low of a scan res to operate efficiently.

whoops my bad I meant industrial. Just stick a cargo scanner, ship scanner, and passive targeter on an Itty V and no one will ever be the wiser

Actually now that im looking through Pyfa I never realized that scan res was so low on those, i never really looked cuz I dont actually use them for that I was just brainstorming. Anyway just replace industrial with any frigate w/3 mid slots.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#40 - 2014-11-23 07:47:47 UTC
Aeryn Maricadie wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Aeryn Maricadie wrote:
the campers simply put someone in a freighter or other unassuming ship on one side of the gate to scan (with passive targeter so you never know) and they tell the gankers whether to shoot it when it lands or not.
Oh really? How do you fit scanning mods to a freighter?
Scanners are in frigates, anything else (except a skiff) will have too low of a scan res to operate efficiently.

whoops my bad I meant industrial. Just stick a cargo scanner, ship scanner, and passive targeter on an Itty V and no one will ever be the wiser

Actually now that im looking through Pyfa I never realized that scan res was so low on those, i never really looked cuz I dont actually use them for that I was just brainstorming. Anyway just replace industrial with any frigate w/3 mid slots.

Frigate is a good way to get yourself ganked by the competition actually. Legion is a great choice.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
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