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Invulnerable while docking?

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Exotic Matters
Fried Liver Attack
#1 - 2014-11-21 17:00:55 UTC
I understand if you land too far away from station for whatever reason you can be shot. But are you invulnerable after "docking permission requested," or after "docking request accepted?" Or at some other point?
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-11-21 17:10:43 UTC
Exotic Matters wrote:
I understand if you land too far away from station for whatever reason you can be shot. But are you invulnerable after "docking permission requested," or after "docking request accepted?" Or at some other point?


You are safe...after you actually docked in the station.

Given that there is no lag happening, this is straight after "Docking request accepted".

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ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#3 - 2014-11-21 18:14:46 UTC
The best way to dock 100% safely is to have a bookmark inside the station. During a time the station is safe, ram it with a fast ship, and make a bookmark when you are at the "peak" of your bump (as far into the station as you can go). When you want to dock safely from then on, warp to that bookmark. Bookmarks are usually very accurate in warping you to the right spot, and even if it throws you off 1-2 km, you are still guaranteed to be much closer to the station than you are warping to the station. When you land out of warp, spam "Dock", and you will dock safely.

ISD LackOfFaith

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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#4 - 2014-11-21 18:34:16 UTC
No need to actually ram the station.

Envisage a sphere, just big enough to entirely surround the station. While you're within that sphere, you're at 0 on the station, and can immediately dock.

When you warp to a point, you arrive somewhere on a 2.5 km radius sphere around that point. So what you want, is to find a point which is 2.5km inside the station sphere. Bookmark that, and you have a 'instadock' bookmark. If you take a ship with a salvager (5 km range), and are using the tactical view, if the highlighted sphere is within that imaginary sphere round the station, you're good.

This also works well for working out where to light a cyno for people to jump to, then dock. As they land at 5km from the cyno.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

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Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#5 - 2014-11-21 18:54:01 UTC
A bookmark inside the station might be dangerous as if you aren't paying attention for a moment you could bounce off the station and end up outside of dock range.

I have a bookmark like Steve said. very useful for operating in jita while being -10, and you can imagine how many people are sitting around with a fast lock ship waiting to shoot whatever they can. Also have one for every lowsec station I frequent.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#6 - 2014-11-21 19:08:11 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
No need to actually ram the station.

Maybe not, but it sure is fun so I'm going to do it anyway.

Your solution is better than mine and explains better. Thanks!

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Eldwinn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-11-21 19:36:15 UTC
Exotic Matters wrote:
I understand if you land too far away from station for whatever reason you can be shot. But are you invulnerable after "docking permission requested," or after "docking request accepted?" Or at some other point?


You are invulnerable exiting a warp. This lasts for about 10seconds. During that time you cannot be locked. If you move the ship or make requests on the new grid your invulnerable wears away. So, if a target requests to dock while outside of docking range you will be able to lock a said target. If a target requests for docking and is in range of the dock you will not be able to lock the target.
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#8 - 2014-11-21 19:41:46 UTC
Eldwinn wrote:
You are invulnerable exiting a warp. This lasts for about 10seconds.

This is not at all true. The only invulnerability you get is after undocking (which ends when you do something with your ship, or after 30 seconds) or after jumping into a system (invulnerable and cloaked, ends when you do something with your ship, or after 30 seconds).

Warping does not confer any invulnerability after you land, period.

ISD LackOfFaith

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Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-11-21 20:17:42 UTC
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
Eldwinn wrote:
You are invulnerable exiting a warp. This lasts for about 10seconds.

This is not at all true. The only invulnerability you get is after undocking (which ends when you do something with your ship, or after 30 seconds) or after jumping into a system (invulnerable and cloaked, ends when you do something with your ship, or after 30 seconds).

Warping does not confer any invulnerability after you land, period.
Actually it does, Mr. ISD.

Try this:

1) Warp to someplace, then as soon as your speedometer starts displaying normal speeds, activate any module: it activates immediately, which proves that you've exited warp

2) Now warp to someplace, then as soon as you get normal speeds on your speedometer, ESC+safe logoff. You can't because you're invulnerable


Or if you're with a buddy or in a fleet, try locking people as soon as they're definetely on grid with you after a warp. A few seconds later, even. Like you would automatically do with your logi buddies if you're flying logi. You can't because they're invulnerable (if they didn't do anything).


Regarding the time, I'd estimate less than 10 seconds, but I'm not sure.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-11-21 20:21:31 UTC
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
No need to actually ram the station.

Maybe not, but it sure is fun so I'm going to do it anyway.

Your solution is better than mine and explains better. Thanks!


If you do, could you bump 4-4 to be in a location normally known as 4-5.

And then record all the stuff happening in local when people wonder where their trade hub went.

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-11-21 20:23:01 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Eldwinn wrote:
Exotic Matters wrote:
I understand if you land too far away from station for whatever reason you can be shot. But are you invulnerable after "docking permission requested," or after "docking request accepted?" Or at some other point?


You are invulnerable exiting a warp. This lasts for about 10seconds. During that time you cannot be locked. If you move the ship or make requests on the new grid your invulnerable wears away. So, if a target requests to dock while outside of docking range you will be able to lock a said target. If a target requests for docking and is in range of the dock you will not be able to lock the target.


Please...If you don't know anything, shut up. Specially in a place where people try to learn new players stuff about EVE.


There is no such thing as invul after a warp.

What you might experience is that you can't lock something as they are technically still in warp. This has nothing to do with invul timers after warp as they are still in warp.


There is 1 place you are invulnerable...that is when you undock a station.

And then you are "invulnerable" when you jumped a gate, because you are cloaked (the cloak is your invulnerability).

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-11-21 20:26:15 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:


Or if you're with a buddy or in a fleet, try locking people as soon as they're definetely on grid with you after a warp. A few seconds later, even. Like you would automatically do with your logi buddies if you're flying logi. You can't because they're invulnerable (if they didn't do anything).


Now, do this while watching the speeds on your overview.

What you will find out...your buddy will be lockable when they exited warp (keep in mind: Last bit of normal but very high m/s values = still part of your warp deceleration and thus you are still "in warp" according to the game).

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Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#13 - 2014-11-21 20:30:09 UTC
In my experience, "invulnerability" means you are still decelerating from warp mode, which means neither you nor your enemy can do anything. Deceleration is also not to "normal speeds". It is to 0 m/s. As soon as the warping ship hits 0 m/s, the "Warp Drive Active" text goes away, the ship can do stuff, and anyone else can do stuff to it. Before that, it is indeed un-targetable, but also helpless to do anything.

If I were allowed to actually fly stuff on the main server, I'd set up an experiment where I'm sitting at a safe spot with a sensor boosted artillery Thrasher, a pod warps to me at 10 km, and I fire it as soon as I can. I would bet good ISK that, on his screen, the shot would come less than a second after the "Warp Drive Active" text goes away (which indicates his warp is over and he can do stuff), even if he doesn't touch anything.

Since I can't do that experiment myself, I recommend you do it on your own and report back.

ISD LackOfFaith

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Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-11-21 20:31:07 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:


Or if you're with a buddy or in a fleet, try locking people as soon as they're definetely on grid with you after a warp. A few seconds later, even. Like you would automatically do with your logi buddies if you're flying logi. You can't because they're invulnerable (if they didn't do anything).


Now, do this while watching the speeds on your overview.

What you will find out...your buddy will be lockable when they exited warp (keep in mind: Last bit of normal but very high m/s values = still part of your warp deceleration and thus you are still "in warp" according to the game).
It works, J.

We do it in FW all the time. Warp a fleet into a plex, everybody 'holds invulnerability' for a few seconds while the FC does a quick assessment on enemy positions and decides primary and secondary.

It is possible that it's because the game thinks you're still 'in warp', BUT in those last few seconds you COULD take any action (activate mods, move, etc.) that would make you lockable.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2014-11-21 20:35:59 UTC
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
In my experience, "invulnerability" means you are still decelerating from warp mode, which means neither you nor your enemy can do anything. Deceleration is also not to "normal speeds". It is to 0 m/s. As soon as the warping ship hits 0 m/s, the "Warp Drive Active" text goes away, the ship can do stuff, and anyone else can do stuff to it. Before that, it is indeed un-targetable, but also helpless to do anything.

If I were allowed to actually fly stuff on the main server, I'd set up an experiment where I'm sitting at a safe spot with a sensor boosted artillery Thrasher, a pod warps to me at 10 km, and I fire it as soon as I can. I would bet good ISK that, on his screen, the shot would come less than a second after the "Warp Drive Active" text goes away (which indicates his warp is over and he can do stuff), even if he doesn't touch anything.

Since I can't do that experiment myself, I recommend you do it on your own and report back.
Yeah, I think I will! I'll let you guys know the outcome.

My working assumption a this point is that ,until you reach exactly zero speed, your enemy can't do anything but YOU CAN if you want, and if you do then you 'pop' out of warp also for your enemy (he can lock you).

Seems a satisfying theoretical explanation, but yes I'll try to test it.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#16 - 2014-11-21 20:48:33 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
My working assumption a this point is that ,until you reach exactly zero speed, your enemy can't do anything but YOU CAN if you want, and if you do then you 'pop' out of warp also for your enemy (he can lock you).

Seems a satisfying theoretical explanation, but yes I'll try to test it.

I see. So our disagreement is on whether you can or can't do stuff before you reach zero speed, which could make you exit warp and become targetable. Thanks for clearing that up, and I'm looking forward to the results of your test!

Uhh, and I recommend against doing it in a pod. Maybe a shuttle or a frigate would be better. Skill points aren't free yet.

ISD LackOfFaith

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Eldwinn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2014-11-21 21:00:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Eldwinn
J'Poll wrote:

Please...If you don't know anything, shut up. Specially in a place where people try to learn new players stuff about EVE.


Why are you talking then? I experience this on a daily basis where as your killboard indicates that you do not. Take your flaming elsewhere.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-11-21 21:06:34 UTC
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
My working assumption a this point is that ,until you reach exactly zero speed, your enemy can't do anything but YOU CAN if you want, and if you do then you 'pop' out of warp also for your enemy (he can lock you).

Seems a satisfying theoretical explanation, but yes I'll try to test it.

I see. So our disagreement is on whether you can or can't do stuff before you reach zero speed, which could make you exit warp and become targetable. Thanks for clearing that up, and I'm looking forward to the results of your test!

Uhh, and I recommend against doing it in a pod. Maybe a shuttle or a frigate would be better. Skill points aren't free yet.
LOL

I was actually thinking of this experiment:

Get 2 dudes fleeted, have them align towards me then the squad commander fleet warps.

Dude 1 should spam a module activation or something while exiting warp.

Dude 2 doesn't touch anything.

As soon as I see them on-grid, I try to lock them both. And see what happens.


Should be a conclusive experiment....

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#19 - 2014-11-21 21:08:31 UTC
Exotic Matters wrote:
I understand if you land too far away from station for whatever reason you can be shot. But are you invulnerable after "docking permission requested," or after "docking request accepted?" Or at some other point?
Likewise you are not invulnerable after you come out of warp and before you jump through a gate.

Leaving a station (and landing in a new system after a jump) is different. You will have a short period of invulnerability. You might want to research those game mechanics. And make sure you understand insta-undocks.


ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#20 - 2014-11-21 21:09:04 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
My working assumption a this point is that ,until you reach exactly zero speed, your enemy can't do anything but YOU CAN if you want, and if you do then you 'pop' out of warp also for your enemy (he can lock you).

Seems a satisfying theoretical explanation, but yes I'll try to test it.

I see. So our disagreement is on whether you can or can't do stuff before you reach zero speed, which could make you exit warp and become targetable. Thanks for clearing that up, and I'm looking forward to the results of your test!

Uhh, and I recommend against doing it in a pod. Maybe a shuttle or a frigate would be better. Skill points aren't free yet.
LOL

I was actually thinking of this experiment:

Get 2 dudes fleeted, have them align towards me then the squad commander fleet warps.

Dude 1 should spam a module activation or something while exiting warp.

Dude 2 doesn't touch anything.

As soon as I see them on-grid, I try to lock them both. And see what happens.


Should be a conclusive experiment....

I like it. Do it!

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
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