Intergalactic Summit

Miss Vearia,

Just as a side note, I was really surprised to hear you mention the Cultural Deliverance Society in the way you did, because, to be honest, I literally could not count the amount of times I have seen ethnic Caldari cite it as an example of Federal Imperialism, and thus one of the reasons for why the secession was such a good idea. In fact, you are only the third person from the State that I have ever heard refer to it in a positive light. It is this fact that has driven my understanding about the Caldari being sort of hypocritical about our own uplifting, so either I have been interacting with entirely the wrong sort of people, or it isn't as clear as you make out.

In any case, let me begin by saying that while I understand why you would believe it to be so, I will reiterate once again that I am not a separatist. Honest, I'm serious! It would be an absolutely terrible idea to leave the State. It would devastate the homeworlds economy and industrial base spectacularly, cut families in half (considering half the people in the autonomous zone have relatives of some sort in a megacorporation), and leave us undefended from all the threats of the modern day. Gurista, Nation, or - Creator help us - Independent Capsuleers. Achura culture would likely die a thousand times faster and in a far more explosive fashion outside of the State then it ever would within it.

It would be an even worse idea to join the Federation, which I am frankly surprised you even suggested I might've been thinking of. Being a solitary island of Federal territory in the middle of The Forge would not only completely cut us off from the outside world in terms of trade and leave us at the mercy of a hostile foreign power, but more than that, it would reduce to us, by virtue of said position, to nothing more then a strategic asset for Villore. Something to advance their undermining of the State, and probably a place to keep a bunch of weapons, at that. We'd never, at this point, get even a fraction of the grace they showed to the Jin-Mei.

And that's assuming we'd even be permitted to, which, well, we wouldn't.

Let me make myself clear. All I want to see - And this is something I only hope for, and not something I am in active pursuit of - Is for, as you said, Achur culture to achieve more mainstream State acceptance, and perhaps for local government to hold a bit of a louder voice. I point out the choices the State denied our people in the distant past not because I believe they would be smart ones now (they wouldn't), but in order to better illustrate why we are owed more within the context of the society that has absorbed us at least partially by force.

And I do all of this because I worry that without change, our native culture in endangered. Regarding that, I regret using the phrase "lifestyle in totality", because I've obviously given you the impression that I meant something I didn't. I'm not trying to fetishize the past of the homeworld - It really wouldn't deserve it anyway - or to try and keep things exactly as they were 300 years ago. That would be very foolish indeed, and self defeating at that, considering the Faith teaches for us to seek grow and better ourselves with knowledge. But I would like to see it continue in a fashion that isn't becoming Caldari culture wholesale, in most respects.

And from my eyes, that's the way things are headed. The State demands all citizens outside of client states embrace the Caldari Way, and that means in all senses. In faith. In lifestyle. And ideally, in thought, too.

I am not as optimistic as you are. Though we have lasted 200 years, we have not expanded one bit in any sense, because the State has not permitted us to do so without doing the aforementioned. The world is changing and growing, and the natives of the homeworld and Achura under the megacorporations who still maintain links to their heritage are being rapidly replaced and left behind by miss Cemenotar's breed, who would sooner call Caldari Prime their homeworld then Achura; Seeing how much that has already become so is the whole point of this exercise.

Stagnation is death. It is a slow and kind death, but it is death all the same, as a field of flowers will wither in the wake of a growing forest. And it is a very possible fate if the status quo remains.

I think our culture should evolve and change. But I feel that it should be allowed to do so somewhat on it's own, distanced from extremely Raata founded ideas like Heiian and so on that will always be somewhat alien to it... Or else, I feel that it should be permitted to fuse with core Caldari culture rather then being isolated as it is, so the virtues of our peoples can be truly joined in a fair and just manner. Where we would not be forced to abandon who we are simply to become truly part of the State.

But what I would hate to see, more then anything, would be for it to merely fade away in it's shadow, forgotten.

Also, please don't paint such a close-minded picture of me; Your voice as an Achur is as valid as mine, if that is how you identify. It would never deny that, even if you called for my head on a pike.

Edit: I forgot to address one of your comments. In regard to our forefathers being "duped", I would never simplify what happened to such an extent. It is not a binary situation - The State was not a force of benevolent aid and acceptance, but neither did it enslave our forefathers in all but name, or anything so dramatic. It was, and is, a situation with of both good and bad elements, neither of which reconcile the other.

Please answer the following if you are not an ethnic Achur.


1. Were you, before reading this thread, aware of the existence of a distinct Achuran culture at all?


Of course.

1A. If you were, would you describe it extremely akin to ethnic Caldari culture?


There is too much variety within Achuran culture to answer this with a yes or no. There are many portions of Achuran culture that are compatible, as can be seen by the so-called 'mainstream' Achura that have begun to integrate with Suvee. But the monks? The only aspect that makes them 'akin' to Caldari culture is that the State largely leaves them be to follow their path. I would not call either of these 'the' Achuran culture - merely different veins within the same culture.

2. Have you been exposed to or researched much/any information about the Achura outside of our role in the State, including history or religion?

Yes, I have studied Achuran spirituality in the past.

3. Have you encountered or worked alongside with any ethnic Achur who you would identify as foremostly Achuran, rather than Caldari?

As far as identifying themselves as Achuran before Caldari, only the monks I have met or the expatriates I have met. As far as what I would identify them as, I don't have an answer for that.

4. Based on your own assessment, do you consider ethnic Caldari and overall State culture to be, overall, inherently superior to Achuran culture?

This question is too leading to answer.

5. How do you personally perceive the Caldari and Achuran relationship in general?

Symbiotic.

I suppose this is as good a thread as any...

Hello,


1. When speaking in terms of your identity, would you foremostly describe yourself as an Achura, or a Caldari?

It really depends on to whom I am talking. Caldari, mostly, unless I'm being asked for secifics.


2. Were you born on our homeworld of Achura Prime/Saisio III, or elsewhere?

Yes, I'm a native. Gengineered, born and raised.


3. Were you raised in the Achuran client state or one of it's very few outposts, or under a megacorporation?
3A. If the former, have you ever felt uncomfortable with your position as a citizen of a tributary protectorate?
3B. If the latter, were you content with the necessity to comform to the Caldari cultural norms to be accepted? Did you feel you were provided with satisfactory education about your ethnic history?

Both? I and my family have always been under SuVee (my current employment with S&TI notwithstanding).

I've not felt uncomfortable as a native Achur, nor have I felt any kind of prejudice or need to "conform." I feel I've had the best education the State can offer.


4. To whom would you say you hold the most loyalty: The Elder Visionaries - the provisional government of the homeworld, based around the remnants of the old empire - The Chief Executive Panel, or neither?

My loyalty is to the State; the Elders are a part of the State. This is not an either/or for me.


5. Do you follow one of the many sects of the Faith of the Achur, the Caldari Wayist Faith, or neither/another religion?

I have faith. I don't need to get all Amarr about it, but I find a degree of comfort in it. I'm a scientist too. My grandfather used to call me his "Little Inventor."

6. Are you familar with Sukuuvestaa's early actions on our homeworld, where they demolished and replaced many of our major cities, deposed our native leadership, and assumed minority rule over the planet, enforcing Caldari culture in the process?
6A. Do you believe this was a good and justified action?

This is ancient history. I'm familiar with the rhetoric on both sides.


7. Would you consider native Achuran culture to have a great deal in common with native Caldari culture, as is often claimed, or to even be essentially one and the same?

Achuran Culture IS Caldari Culture. And vice versa.

8. How do you personally perceive the Caldari and Achuran relationship in general?

I don't see a need for there to be any separation. Many people get lost and wrapped up in classifying each other and themselves based on their differences. Intake/Gallente. Amarr/Khanid, Minmatar/Not Minmatar, human/post-human. If all you do is look for the differences in person, you will never see the whole person.

A quick clarification, miss Uesbhiba, since you seemed confused by this qustion, and might not really have thought about the precise specifics.

The homeworld is divided in two politically - The majority of the planet is overseen by the theocratic autonomous government which traces it's origins back to the old Empire (with most people employed by no megacorporation at all), while the most densely populated areas of the planet have been claimed, mostly by Sukuuvestaa, as corporate enclaves under direct State rule. My question mostly concerned simply whether you had been raised in the former of not, because obviously the Caldari cities in Saisio are much like... Well, like everywhere else in the State. "Both", as you suggested, isn't really applicable. It's a rather clean cut.

I asked this because the cultural disparity between the two cannot be overstated. Caldari culture goes completely unenforced in the client state, creating a vastly different way of life. So it was important in order to know where you're coming from - The fact that you weren't is probably why you don't seem to really understand what I'm making a fuss over.

Other than that, thank you very much for taking the time to fill out the survey. It is much appreciated.

This. So much this.

Mr. Tuulinen,

Thank you. You are very kind to say so.



Miss Ikiryo,

Thank you, as well.

Are you Caldari? Yes. I would say so. Genetically, perhaps. Culturally, yes. Though not in the stereotypical sense. That you have risen to where you are now in spite of, or because of your experience is very Caldari to me.

I am deeply sorry and troubled that you (and others who have replied here) have had to face prejudice and stigma at the hands of narrow-minded individuals. Just because I have not felt it, does not invalidate your experience. I think it's dumb to be prejudicial to someone because of a difference in homeworld or culture. Lack of ability. Being a malcontent. Disloyalty. Dishonor. These are the things which should be shunned, I think.

You said earlier that you would like to see a more...mainstream presence of Achuran culture. A louder voice. I do not think these are bad goals. But they would not be traditional. And that's not bad. Progress can make us, the State, our families and corporations, greater. So how do we do this?

There are some key tenets to being Caldari. First of all, everyone is free to act as they wish - but there is no shirking the consequences of those decisions. Second there is The Way and no other way but The Way.

Traditionally the State has said "You are welcome to practice whatever faith and culture you desire, within the limits of the law - but we are not forced to accept you." This motto has kept us homogenous in culture and faith for centuries, the bottom-up enforcement I mentioned earlier.

Clearly the Achuran faith is NOT part of The Way. We took up those who were willing to embrace us and those who wished to cleave to their own ways seemed to have little desire to expand into the heavens. This is clearly changing. Gwen, at the very least, seems to be saying that her adoption of Caldari ways was at best superficial and, at worst, mere lip service. She seems to be saying that she wishes to retain her previous faith and still reach for the stars.

Normally I would suggest she and those like her do so - outside the State. But this is a special situation. As the Gallente uplifted us and then struck us with the back of the same hand they offered in help when we would no longer be their childlike vassal, so have we uplifted the Achurans. Now some of them begin to ask the questions Mathias Sobaseki's ancestors must have asked.

Kirjuun - history will be watching us and will be quick to judge our answers when we give them. We have a chance to avoid making the mistake that the Gallente still rue so bitterly.

Can someone more learned in The Way than I please tell me why the Achurans should not be free to join the State AS Achurans? We are one people now, but once our differences ran deep. K'vire and Deteaas almost brought each other to ruin before Cold Wind taught us his lesson - that individually we are weak, but together unbreakable. Could it be any other way with the sons and daughters of Saisio?

I am not saying it will be easy. I am not saying we will get it right at once - we have already made mistakes. I am saying that difficulty has never been a valid excuse not to do something worthwhile and the alternative is unbearable to this Caldari's heart. The Achuran homeworld should never suffer what our own dear Home has suffered - much less become the State's Starkman Prime!

1. Were you, before reading this thread, aware of the existence of a distinct Achuran culture at all?

Yes.

1A. If you were, would you describe it extremely akin to ethnic Caldari culture?

No.

2. Have you been exposed to or researched much/any information about the Achura outside of our role in the State, including history or religion?

Yes.

3. Have you encountered or worked alongside with any ethnic Achur who you would identify as foremostly Achuran, rather than Caldari?

In my public professional life, no. Cultural conformity (at least in public) tended to be a path to advancement up the Org Chart for them for a variety of reasons.

In my private professional life, yes.

4. Based on your own assessment, do you consider ethnic Caldari and overall State culture to be, overall, inherently superior to Achuran culture?

On merit alone, no. However, State culture remains dominant vis-a-viz the Achur due to the resources available to both create and construct, "Brand Caldari," on the part of Megacorporate academia and intelligentsia in addition to their ability to disseminate that Brand through their associated media and education divisions.

5. How do you personally perceive the Caldari and Achuran relationship in general?

Benignly exploitative.

Pieter,

Thank you very much for speaking up in this regard. Your sentiment is what I wish was conveyed by the wider State.



Mister Kraid,

It may surprise you, but I'm mostly in agreement with what you're saying, here. What I see as one of the primary roots of this whole problem is that many Caldari seem to view the State as in a place of cultural nirvana; It is perfect, and there is no room for improvement or outside influence of any sort whatsoever. This inherently shows they don't really consider our people as much above mere expatriates from other nations in terms of having noteworthy traits to contribute, which leaves a bit of a rift. Taking on lessons from the faith as part of the Caldari Way would go a long way to changing that.

Ultimately, though, I don't believe there's much difference between what you and Pieter are suggesting.

Let me step back and clarify what I said earlier as to what I believe would be the two solutions to this issue, just for the record. Either of these would end my concerns about the fate of our culture and our place in the State.

1. Establish a more fair but still seperate partnership between our two cultures, where one is not clearly submissive to the other. Make a sole exception for the planetary government within the usual structure of the State and allow it to stand amongst the corporations, giving it leave to establish it's own colonies, build it's own stations, and so fourth. And permit it a voice in how the nation it is a part of is run - Perhaps a minor seat on the CEP for the First Seer would be in order.

Or, as is being presently discussed,

2. End the sepration. Accept the Achuran cultural identity as part of the greater Caldari whole, and allow those of us who enter megacorporate life to retain our own values. I believe if that happened, what you are suggesting - A degree of symbiosis between the two identities - Would happen on it's own after not too long, without needing to force anything. After a century or so, the client state probably wouldn't even need to exist any longer.

Of course, both have their problems (the former that many would consider it compromising the States fundamental basis, and the latter because there would always be subtle conflicts between our ways of life that would have to be tolerated and accommodated) but either are far preferable to the status quo, in my eyes. And frankly, if the State truly cannot suffer doing either, then it doesn't really have any business calling our people one of it's core bloodlines, and it should in the long run probably return the land it has stolen, compensate the local government, and depart.

I have absolutely no desire to see that happen, though, save for as a last resort for the perpetuation of my faith and way of life.

Except Sukuuvestaa literally came into our temple and planted it's idols everywhere when it first discovered our people, Diana. It is a bit hypocritical to employ that logic, in this scenario.

Our people changed for the sake of the State when it ended our old way of life, even those of us who did not join the megacorporations. How is wrong for me to wish it would change for us, in turn?

And the reason the Elders do not simply form a megacorporation is because our breed of theocracy isn't compatible with corporatism. That isn't to say the two cannot work together, or that our way of life is of less merit and unable to contribute - Simply that it is not viable to expect our society to fit perfectly into the mold created by the State. It is not a justification to keep us in a state of eternal supplication.