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Supers Can't Disappear
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Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#141 - 2014-11-20 15:09:08 UTC
Havenard wrote:
You forget people have real lifes to attend to, they cant be 24/7 in the game preocuppied with what could happen to their multi billionaire ships drifting in space.

The game mechanics must meet this reality, otherwise the ships just won't be used. This would immediately make Supers and Titans targets of fleets that would search space after "afk capitals" and destroy them for fat killmails, and nobody would ever buy those ships again.

It's a sandbox.

You can choose to play any way you would like.

That said, why should CCP incentivize fleet oriented ships, designed to require multi account support for best use, around individual players?

They have not committed to making these ships exclusively fleet centric, which is why so many are out there.
They became a status symbol of wealth instead of group play.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#142 - 2014-11-20 17:22:58 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Havenard wrote:
You forget people have real lifes to attend to, they cant be 24/7 in the game preocuppied with what could happen to their multi billionaire ships drifting in space.

The game mechanics must meet this reality, otherwise the ships just won't be used. This would immediately make Supers and Titans targets of fleets that would search space after "afk capitals" and destroy them for fat killmails, and nobody would ever buy those ships again.

It's a sandbox.

You can choose to play any way you would like.

That said, why should CCP incentivize fleet oriented ships, designed to require multi account support for best use, around individual players?

They have not committed to making these ships exclusively fleet centric, which is why so many are out there.
They became a status symbol of wealth instead of group play.



It was eve's attempt at an end game. Were a pilot would go to spend the rest of there life in a super.

It requires multi account support for best use it shouldn't require that when not doing any thing. Also its only one toon ever flying the ship can they could solo if they chose until eve has ships that require multiple pilots to be in it to fly it then they are ships for individuals that hold strategic value for there corp/alliance.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#143 - 2014-11-20 17:52:45 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
It was eve's attempt at an end game. Were a pilot would go to spend the rest of there life in a super.

It requires multi account support for best use it shouldn't require that when not doing any thing. Also its only one toon ever flying the ship can they could solo if they chose until eve has ships that require multiple pilots to be in it to fly it then they are ships for individuals that hold strategic value for there corp/alliance.

Players have bypassed that by plexing alt pilots to sit in the super offline.
This simple tactic frees the original pilot character to do other things.

I am not saying you are wrong.
I am asking why should CCP continue using these as wealth status symbols, as they have been?

It has been implied, particularly when they pointed out that they never expected so many titans to be in the game, that CCP never intended supers to be present in relatively large numbers.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#144 - 2014-11-20 18:29:08 UTC
Supers are not really so "super" we all know they have **** load of drawbacks the bigest is the space coffin.

And throwing them under the bus will help nothing, will make super pilots only more sad.

what if you have Titan and go on vacation and don't log in for few weeks? YOU ARE Fucke* coz you don't log every day?

yyy ... this is silly and bad idea.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#145 - 2014-11-20 19:20:08 UTC
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
Supers are not really so "super" we all know they have **** load of drawbacks the bigest is the space coffin.

And throwing them under the bus will help nothing, will make super pilots only more sad.

what if you have Titan and go on vacation and don't log in for few weeks? YOU ARE Fucke* coz you don't log every day?

yyy ... this is silly and bad idea.

Why should pilots able and willing to work together, not have a benefit for doing this?

More specifically, to the idea I suggested about external docking of supers and titans, your corp would be able to babysit your prized vessel for you, protecting it alongside the POS or Outpost already being defended.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Sgt Soulless
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#146 - 2014-11-20 20:05:15 UTC
I'm all for this change. The universe needs fewer super caps, and capitals in general really need to be completely rethought. They're much much too common, and were never intended to exist in the quantities that they do now. Personally I think super cap construction should just be disabled so they'll slowly be phased out of existence. They were kind of a stupid idea to begin with. They really don't bring anything of significant value to the game that couldn't be implemented in better ways. They're mostly just about "look at my eve peen. It's HUUUUGE!".
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#147 - 2014-11-20 20:26:21 UTC
Sgt Soulless wrote:
I'm all for this change. The universe needs fewer super caps, and capitals in general really need to be completely rethought. They're much much too common, and were never intended to exist in the quantities that they do now. Personally I think super cap construction should just be disabled so they'll slowly be phased out of existence. They were kind of a stupid idea to begin with. They really don't bring anything of significant value to the game that couldn't be implemented in better ways. They're mostly just about "look at my eve peen. It's HUUUUGE!".


I would be too, if it would actually reduce the number of supercaps, but it won't. A few people might lose them to POS security before they learn that they can't tell anyone their password. Other than that, it's just an inconvenience for super pilots, and considering how insanely powerful and un-counterable supers and titans are, it's not going to dissuade people from using them.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#148 - 2014-11-20 20:42:05 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
It was eve's attempt at an end game. Were a pilot would go to spend the rest of there life in a super.

It requires multi account support for best use it shouldn't require that when not doing any thing. Also its only one toon ever flying the ship can they could solo if they chose until eve has ships that require multiple pilots to be in it to fly it then they are ships for individuals that hold strategic value for there corp/alliance.

Players have bypassed that by plexing alt pilots to sit in the super offline.
This simple tactic frees the original pilot character to do other things.

I am not saying you are wrong.
I am asking why should CCP continue using these as wealth status symbols, as they have been?

It has been implied, particularly when they pointed out that they never expected so many titans to be in the game, that CCP never intended supers to be present in relatively large numbers.



They also said no one should live in wh's or there intention wasn't people living in them all the time.


I dont get what you are getting at. If they where just wealth status symbols noone would care. its the fact they are very strong powerful ships that take a lot to kill has a a group of people looking for easy ways to kill supers. which is all this idea is, make it to much hassle and inconvenience to keep one. This is a game that should always take 2nd rung to real life. If the game forces you to always be on at least once every other day it is a bad game.


As everything can take gates now they should be able to dock like every other ship in eve.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#149 - 2014-11-20 20:56:29 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
They also said no one should live in wh's or there intention wasn't people living in them all the time.


I dont get what you are getting at. If they where just wealth status symbols noone would care. its the fact they are very strong powerful ships that take a lot to kill has a a group of people looking for easy ways to kill supers. which is all this idea is, make it to much hassle and inconvenience to keep one. This is a game that should always take 2nd rung to real life. If the game forces you to always be on at least once every other day it is a bad game.


As everything can take gates now they should be able to dock like every other ship in eve.

Being a status symbol of wealth is not mutually exclusive to being powerful.
Right now, however, wealth is the only real barrier to owning one.

Why should these powerful ships be easy to keep?

You pointed out these ships take a lot to kill. This IS a game, where the highest ideal in theory is good gameplay.
Why would we want individual ownership of ships powerful enough to be a consideration, when thinking about real life priorities?
Bob can't go on vacation, his EVE character owns a super....

Wouldn't we want such a burden shared across a corporation instead?
Let the super pilots go free, and the players released from obligation to work their lives around the well being of a pretend space ship.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#150 - 2014-11-20 21:11:57 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
They also said no one should live in wh's or there intention wasn't people living in them all the time.


I dont get what you are getting at. If they where just wealth status symbols noone would care. its the fact they are very strong powerful ships that take a lot to kill has a a group of people looking for easy ways to kill supers. which is all this idea is, make it to much hassle and inconvenience to keep one. This is a game that should always take 2nd rung to real life. If the game forces you to always be on at least once every other day it is a bad game.


As everything can take gates now they should be able to dock like every other ship in eve.

Being a status symbol of wealth is not mutually exclusive to being powerful.
Right now, however, wealth is the only real barrier to owning one.

Why should these powerful ships be easy to keep?

You pointed out these ships take a lot to kill. This IS a game, where the highest ideal in theory is good gameplay.
Why would we want individual ownership of ships powerful enough to be a consideration, when thinking about real life priorities?
Bob can't go on vacation, his EVE character owns a super....

Wouldn't we want such a burden shared across a corporation instead?
Let the super pilots go free, and the players released from obligation to work their lives around the well being of a pretend space ship.



Thats the system in place now. Bob can go on vacation and not have to worry about his game, currently they aren't a consideration when thinking of real life. This entire thread wants to make them be.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#151 - 2014-11-20 21:39:22 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Being a status symbol of wealth is not mutually exclusive to being powerful.
Right now, however, wealth is the only real barrier to owning one.

Why should these powerful ships be easy to keep?

You pointed out these ships take a lot to kill. This IS a game, where the highest ideal in theory is good gameplay.
Why would we want individual ownership of ships powerful enough to be a consideration, when thinking about real life priorities?
Bob can't go on vacation, his EVE character owns a super....

Wouldn't we want such a burden shared across a corporation instead?
Let the super pilots go free, and the players released from obligation to work their lives around the well being of a pretend space ship.



Thats the system in place now. Bob can go on vacation and not have to worry about his game, currently they aren't a consideration when thinking of real life. This entire thread wants to make them be.

Not the part I suggested, where in exchange for the super remaining in the game, it could also be attached to a POS or Outpost.

Those items are persistent in the game, and have well defined defenses a corporation can be expected to handle as a group.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Goochan derp
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#152 - 2014-11-20 22:29:49 UTC
doubt it will happen but im very interested to hear what a dev has to say on the subject +1 op
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#153 - 2014-11-20 23:43:42 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Being a status symbol of wealth is not mutually exclusive to being powerful.
Right now, however, wealth is the only real barrier to owning one.

Why should these powerful ships be easy to keep?

You pointed out these ships take a lot to kill. This IS a game, where the highest ideal in theory is good gameplay.
Why would we want individual ownership of ships powerful enough to be a consideration, when thinking about real life priorities?
Bob can't go on vacation, his EVE character owns a super....

Wouldn't we want such a burden shared across a corporation instead?
Let the super pilots go free, and the players released from obligation to work their lives around the well being of a pretend space ship.



Thats the system in place now. Bob can go on vacation and not have to worry about his game, currently they aren't a consideration when thinking of real life. This entire thread wants to make them be.

Not the part I suggested, where in exchange for the super remaining in the game, it could also be attached to a POS or Outpost.

Those items are persistent in the game, and have well defined defenses a corporation can be expected to handle as a group.



Lets fix corp management and POS's before we go making super forced to dock there. And I'm all for when they dock at an outpost you can see it but not shoot it (which is different than you suggest)
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#154 - 2014-11-21 00:47:01 UTC
Goochan derp wrote:
doubt it will happen but im very interested to hear what a dev has to say on the subject +1 op


I can tell you right now what they are about to say:

nada!

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
#155 - 2014-11-21 08:30:46 UTC
I am in, +1 from me

Aaand thx for this nice flame war thread, too.
Lug Muad'Dib
Funk'in Hole
#156 - 2014-11-21 09:58:15 UTC
It will never happen anyway, some people have a life outside of eve. Reserve capital ships to large entity covering all timezone is a very bad idea ..
The Hamilton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#157 - 2014-11-21 10:29:38 UTC
After a MASSIVE Pos revamp, bring this idea back up.
Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#158 - 2014-11-21 10:46:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Trant
I am not a cap pilot so would not be personally hurt by this suggestion. However, anyone who gives this the slightest thought should realize it is a ridiculous idea.

This idea would cement the 'Blue doughnut' effects, encourage NIPS, NAPS, destroy the smaller corps ability to compete. Short term it might result in some juicy kills, but long term this would be the exact opposite of a conflict driver.

Imagine a small corp in low sec with a single Titan. The likes of PL would hunt it down with a vengeance. Smash down the POSs of the corp, follow the titan using locator agents and keep destroying each base it relocated to. Relentlessly they would bear down on the independent pilot until eventually he either gave up and died or joined one of the big boys.

Ultimately every Titan and Super in game would end up in the two big coalitions and they would be NAPed up with each other.

Meanwhile everyone else? They would be mad to even consider building a Titan/Super. Thus there would never be a rising new power with ambitions on a corner of null sec. Maybe that is already the case, but the whole point of the Jump drives changes was to make that sort of thing possible again. Maybe more changes are needed to make that happen, but they need to be conflict drivers, not NAP drivers. Something to encourage the big coalitions to break up, not glue them together.
Jane Shapperd
Quafe Commandos
The Commonwealth.
#159 - 2014-11-21 11:18:47 UTC
keep ur sitter cloaked in a safe spot

GG!! u just made the number of people online on eve servers higher causing more lags and crashes
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#160 - 2014-11-21 14:16:18 UTC
Major Trant wrote:
I am not a cap pilot so would not be personally hurt by this suggestion. However, anyone who gives this the slightest thought should realize it is a ridiculous idea.

This idea would cement the 'Blue doughnut' effects, encourage NIPS, NAPS, destroy the smaller corps ability to compete. Short term it might result in some juicy kills, but long term this would be the exact opposite of a conflict driver.

Imagine a small corp in low sec with a single Titan. The likes of PL would hunt it down with a vengeance. Smash down the POSs of the corp, follow the titan using locator agents and keep destroying each base it relocated to. Relentlessly they would bear down on the independent pilot until eventually he either gave up and died or joined one of the big boys.

Ultimately every Titan and Super in game would end up in the two big coalitions and they would be NAPed up with each other.

Meanwhile everyone else? They would be mad to even consider building a Titan/Super. Thus there would never be a rising new power with ambitions on a corner of null sec. Maybe that is already the case, but the whole point of the Jump drives changes was to make that sort of thing possible again. Maybe more changes are needed to make that happen, but they need to be conflict drivers, not NAP drivers. Something to encourage the big coalitions to break up, not glue them together.

You skated past the obvious flaw in your argument.

If the small corp in lowsec was a target, then the possession of a titan is not going to be a big deal to the likes of PL.
They are going to plow through the space of this small corp, and if the titan happens to get caught along the way, someone in PL get's a thank-you card.

In the end, the small corp is smashed to pieces.
Still having the Titan at that point, is like having a big screen TV with no home to keep it in.
Where would they even be able to use it, with any expectation of safety?
You already had PL smash their holdings, they are on the run now.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...