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Voting Call: Part 2 of First Arek'Jaalan Symposium (YC 116/117)
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Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#21 - 2014-11-14 20:50:06 UTC
Joe Themachine wrote:
Valerie Valate wrote:
I am in no way vain enough to vote for my own, brilliant, suggestions.
what if your proposals lose by 1 vote?


If that happens, then, it was Written.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Siobhan MacLeary
Doomheim
#22 - 2014-11-15 06:16:51 UTC
My vote is as follows:

1.1: B
1.2: B
1.3: B

2.1: YEA
2.2: YEA
2.3: NAY
2.4: YEA
2.5: YEA
2.6: YEA
2.7: YEA

3.1: NAY
3.2: YEA
3.3: YEA

4.1: YEA
4.2: B

Biotáille agus sinsear a bheith le linn.

Voting completed @ 22:16 Rift local time (06:16 Cluster), YC116.11.14
Vote recorded in accordance with guidelines RE: Arek'Jalaan Symposium I, YC116-117

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.” - CCP Soundwave
Leveaux
Celestial Precision
#23 - 2014-11-15 21:31:24 UTC
My votes are as follows:

Section I Overall Structure

Item 1: A
Item 2: A
Item3: A

Section II Division Structure

Item 1: Yes
Item 2: Yes
Item 3: Yes
Item 4: Yes
Item 5: Yes
Item 6: Yes
Item 7: Yes

Section III Operations and Mission

Item 1: Yes
Item 2: Yes
Item 3: Yes

Section IV Voting Activity

Item 1: Yes
Item 2: B
Joe Themachine
Sleeper Tech. Research Foundation
#24 - 2014-11-18 07:48:48 UTC
only a few days left till we close the vote. vote now or for at least 1 year hold your peace!
Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#25 - 2014-11-19 07:18:54 UTC
I think you're lacking a quorum here. I also think your timing could not be worse - with Tukoss an open question I think your deadline is premature. In addition the lack of key participants who are the owners of record of these projects in this vote renders in questionable.

That said, I'm enjoying the popcorn, so why not.

==============================

Section I Overall Structure

Item 1 B
Item 2 A
Item 3 A

Section II Division Structure

Item 1 No
Item 2 No
Item 3 No
Item 4 No
Item 5 Yes
Item 6 Yes
Item 7 No

Section III Operations & Mission

Item 1 No
Item 2 No
Item 3 No

Section IV Voting Activity

Item 1 No
Item 2 B

Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary
Gehen Sealbreaker
Sealbreaker Labs
#26 - 2014-11-19 13:43:31 UTC
Rhavas wrote:
I think you're lacking a quorum here. I also think your timing could not be worse - with Tukoss an open question I think your deadline is premature. In addition the lack of key participants who are the owners of record of these projects in this vote renders in questionable.


Dr Tukoss's reappearance was "unfortunate" as it caused quite a stir in what would otherwise be a smooth revival process. However, in his last (and generally considered genuine) transmission, he encouraged us to carry on with the election process.

(( More specifically, I suspect Tukoss was brought back by CCP simply because Arek'Jalaan started moving again. ))

But even if we have Dr Tukoss' green light to reorganize the project, we should indeed have the vote of key participants. We should try to reach out specifically to them, and maybe gather 2/3rds of the votes of those who are still alive and reachable?

Here is the list of former key participants I refer to (Division and Project leads, main contrbutors).
My apologies if I forgot someone, especially someone who is still active today but I couldn't remember from back then. No grades or titles are mentioned, and the list is by last name. (Or callsign if name unknown.)
Some of these people have contributed far more than others, but again, it would preposterous of me to judge.

As you can see, only a fraction voted. 6 out of 75. Even adding all those who voted to the list would not pad the numbers by much.
But I have not heard about many of them in a while, and we're all a cloning accident away from death.

Accuspray, Iwata
Akihoshi
Anslo
Arkenath, Myhial
Aurilen, Phaedra
Authochthonian
Bareon
Blackwind, Jara
Borascus
Brooder, Aidan
Bubu, jack
Caine, Leopold --- Voted
Chevalleis
Cold Vodka
Deckard, Vanneth
Dedlow, Terra
Delacrosse, Adrienne
Dracor, Roga
DutchGunner
DuVey, Jacques
Eliniale
Fehrnah, Uraniae
Gheris, James
Grideris (Unreachable)
Guthris (Unreachable ?)
Gwanwyn, Adainy
Haakkainen, Kaito
Jaibao, Wen
Khalida, Renee
Kivvic
Lagann, Morwen
LaGeorge, Hordi
Lanate, Akrasjel
Literia
Malleus, Kais
Mark726
Mossari, Wyke
Myyona
Myxx
Natella
Nator, Bernie
Neferis, Revan
Ownz, Thomas
Pitoojee, Esna
Pryce, Vincent
Prime, Akasha
Pritchard, Cicaedis
Punx, Evangeline
Raven, Aeb
Rhavas --- Voted
Ronuken, Steve
Rundle, Ollie
Santee, Morar
Screaming Blade
Sealbreaker, Gehen --- Voted
SectorClear
Skyshatter, Razz
Soter, Julianus --- Abstained
Stargazer
Stitcher
Tamirova, Celeste
Telecom, Tina
Texcoyo
The Antiquarian
Thessalonia, Tiberious
Tiane, Mirabi
Tukoss, Hilen (Unreachable ?)
Tori, Aesis
Tykari
Valate, Valerie --- Abstained
Vales, Norman --- Voted
Vin'Taur, Eri
Von Hammerstorm, Hector
Wenchel, Tiberius
Zurman, Alextrasa

For the record, there were a few other participants who are no longer human, or were already not when the project was started, including the occasional Sansha Slave. (Requirement were lax, to say the least.)

Joe, what do you think? This election has to be legitimate.
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#27 - 2014-11-19 14:22:56 UTC
Quote:
Section I Overall Structure

Item 1 B
Item 2 C
Item 3 A

Section II Division Structure

Item 1 Yes
Item 2 Yes
Item 3 Yes
Item 4 No
Item 5 Yes
Item 6 Yes
Item 7 Yes

Section III Operations & Mission

Item 1 No
Item 2 Yes
Item 3 Yes

Section IV Voting Activity

Item 1 Yes
Item 2 A


For whatever it counts, if at all.

-Eran
Joe Themachine
Sleeper Tech. Research Foundation
#28 - 2014-11-19 20:01:40 UTC
Gehen Sealbreaker wrote:
Rhavas wrote:
I think you're lacking a quorum here. I also think your timing could not be worse - with Tukoss an open question I think your deadline is premature. In addition the lack of key participants who are the owners of record of these projects in this vote renders in questionable.


Dr Tukoss's reappearance was "unfortunate" as it caused quite a stir in what would otherwise be a smooth revival process. However, in his last (and generally considered genuine) transmission, he encouraged us to carry on with the election process.

(( More specifically, I suspect Tukoss was brought back by CCP simply because Arek'Jalaan started moving again. ))

But even if we have Dr Tukoss' green light to reorganize the project, we should indeed have the vote of key participants. We should try to reach out specifically to them, and maybe gather 2/3rds of the votes of those who are still alive and reachable?

Here is the list of former key participants I refer to (Division and Project leads, main contrbutors).
My apologies if I forgot someone, especially someone who is still active today but I couldn't remember from back then. No grades or titles are mentioned, and the list is by last name. (Or callsign if name unknown.)
Some of these people have contributed far more than others, but again, it would preposterous of me to judge.

As you can see, only a fraction voted. 6 out of 75. Even adding all those who voted to the list would not pad the numbers by much.
But I have not heard about many of them in a while, and we're all a cloning accident away from death.

Accuspray, Iwata
Akihoshi
Anslo
Arkenath, Myhial
Aurilen, Phaedra
Authochthonian
Bareon
Blackwind, Jara
Borascus
Brooder, Aidan
Bubu, jack
Caine, Leopold --- Voted
Chevalleis
Cold Vodka
Deckard, Vanneth
Dedlow, Terra
Delacrosse, Adrienne
Dracor, Roga
DutchGunner
DuVey, Jacques
Eliniale
Fehrnah, Uraniae
Gheris, James
Grideris (Unreachable)
Guthris (Unreachable ?)
Gwanwyn, Adainy
Haakkainen, Kaito
Jaibao, Wen
Khalida, Renee
Kivvic
Lagann, Morwen
LaGeorge, Hordi
Lanate, Akrasjel
Literia
Malleus, Kais
Mark726
Mossari, Wyke
Myyona
Myxx
Natella
Nator, Bernie
Neferis, Revan
Ownz, Thomas
Pitoojee, Esna
Pryce, Vincent
Prime, Akasha
Pritchard, Cicaedis
Punx, Evangeline
Raven, Aeb
Rhavas --- Voted
Ronuken, Steve
Rundle, Ollie
Santee, Morar
Screaming Blade
Sealbreaker, Gehen --- Voted
SectorClear
Skyshatter, Razz
Soter, Julianus --- Abstained
Stargazer
Stitcher
Tamirova, Celeste
Telecom, Tina
Texcoyo
The Antiquarian
Thessalonia, Tiberious
Tiane, Mirabi
Tukoss, Hilen (Unreachable ?)
Tori, Aesis
Tykari
Valate, Valerie --- Abstained
Vales, Norman --- Voted
Vin'Taur, Eri
Von Hammerstorm, Hector
Wenchel, Tiberius
Zurman, Alextrasa

For the record, there were a few other participants who are no longer human, or were already not when the project was started, including the occasional Sansha Slave. (Requirement were lax, to say the least.)

Joe, what do you think? This election has to be legitimate.


So now it becomes a problem of process. Rhavas mentions quorum, but there is no legal definition of Quorum in any A'J document. The 2/3rds number is arbitrary as well, but a decision has to be made, so here is what we can do for now.

1- Clearly, we need to extend the deadline to we'll extend for another 2 weeks from today.
2- I will reach out to the members you have listed soliciting a vote or a comment on whether they abstain. Going door to door is not a difficult thing.
3-If you are deliberatly abstaining from the process because you disagree with its premise, you should save us some time and simply announce it in this forum.

In 2 weeks, we'll see what the results are, and try to make a decision on whether quorum has been reached, and whether this new body has a new mandate to govern.

I knew it wouldn't be easy. The good news is that at the moment the process is within the original plan! :) Nothing catastrophic yet!
Anslo
Scope Works
#29 - 2014-11-19 20:10:16 UTC
Remove me from that list.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#30 - 2014-11-19 21:37:36 UTC
Awww, I didn't make the list. I never make the list..... even the bad lists. I'm never going to get famous like this...

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Johanes Beaumonte
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#31 - 2014-11-19 22:06:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Johanes Beaumonte
Eh? A List? How about a mailing list to contact those who haven't responded?
Miyamoto Takedi
Perkone
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-11-19 22:18:59 UTC
Seems to me that the proposal to leave everything the same was made before the end of the process, if the other thread is still relevant.
It was simply dismissed out of hand.

Now, Joe seems to say that if the proposal had been made then the option would be there.

Confusing.
Gehen Sealbreaker
Sealbreaker Labs
#33 - 2014-11-20 05:59:20 UTC
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Awww, I didn't make the list. I never make the list..... even the bad lists. I'm never going to get famous like this...


Anslo wrote:
Remove me from that list.


Remember, it's a list from three years ago. There are various people who made commendable contributions recently that I would add to a similar list if it was done today.

You did things for Arek'Jalaan, Anslo, and wanting to erase it is quite strange. You name is present in various meeting minutes or SEC reports. from three years ago. Should we try to edit that too so your name won't be tied to Arek'Jalaan in any way?

Besides, destroying records of something that really happened would not be scientific at all.

However, we can count you as a blank vote.
Joe Themachine
Sleeper Tech. Research Foundation
#34 - 2014-11-20 09:03:53 UTC
Miyamoto Takedi wrote:
Seems to me that the proposal to leave everything the same was made before the end of the process, if the other thread is still relevant.
It was simply dismissed out of hand.

Now, Joe seems to say that if the proposal had been made then the option would be there.

Confusing.


I must've missed it, if it was made, but I went through the entire forum minutes and did not see a status quo proposal. Care to quote or show it to me?
Miyamoto Takedi
Perkone
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-11-20 15:56:03 UTC
On second glance, nevermind.
She claims to be a drone, and Gehen over there seems dismissive of those he feels are non human.

A little hypocritical, coming from a capsuleer.
Shaera Taam
Khanid Prime Free Irregulars
#36 - 2014-11-20 19:04:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Shaera Taam
Miyamoto Takedi wrote:
On second glance, nevermind.
She claims to be a drone, and Gehen over there seems dismissive of those he feels are non human.

A little hypocritical, coming from a capsuleer.


And yours, sir, are completely unnecessary. If you are referring to comments made by Unit, then suffice it to say, if she thought Gehen or A'J as a whole were prejudiced against her, she would have said something to that effect. Such is not the case.

If you do not like the direction that A'J is going, vote to maintain the status quo. Joe provided instructions for just that very option.

If you do not like A'J at all, then you are free to take whatever action you see fit within the limits of your capabilities and the extent of the law.

Support. Oppose. Get out of the way. Just *DO* something.

EDIT: to Joe, Gehen, and the rest of A'J. My apologies for posting this in the middle of the voting thread. I'll not carry on with this and derail the thread further.
[ /bows ]

Thus Spake the Frigate Goddess!
Miyamoto Takedi
Perkone
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-11-20 20:24:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Miyamoto Takedi
Ms Taam.

Where did i say that i thought anything of the sort?

It was said that no-one made the proposition of making no changes.
Someone did.

Later, Gehen clearly stated that he made a list of those who he wanted to hear from, primarily former contributors, but chose not to include those 'who are no longer human, or were already not when the project was started'

At no point, prior to this one, have i stated any opinion of the project.
For the record, collaborative scientific endeavors are to be commended, they are likely to be the way forward.

As i have yet to be involved in any way, it is not my place to vote, it appeared that a proposition had been missed however, so i, in an apparently misguided attempt to be helpful, was about to point it out, when i spotted Gehen's closing statement, therefore the point i was making became irrelevant.

my second post simply pointed out that i was in error.

So, why have you chosen to take such offense?
Gehen Sealbreaker
Sealbreaker Labs
#38 - 2014-11-21 06:48:29 UTC
Shaera Taam wrote:
To Joe, Gehen, and the rest of A'J. My apologies for posting this in the middle of the voting thread. I'll not carry on with this and derail the thread further.
[ /bows ]


Please, Ms Taam. I am not Joe, and therefore cannot speak in any official way about this symposium, but on a personnal level, I appreciate your interventions and motivation. You are amongst those I regret we did not have three years ago - and into that list - because your heart is definitively in the right place.

Regarding the "disruption" caused by off-topic comments, again, only Joe can judge, but I feel the point of this discussion has evolved. The current vote numbers does not represent Arek'Jalaan past in any way... And it's far from sure it represents Arek'Jalaan present.

Joe, do you feel we should create a separate thread for the meta-discussion around the voting process?

Shaera Taam wrote:
Gehen clearly stated that he made a list of those who he wanted to hear from, primarily former contributors, but chose not to include those 'who are no longer human, or were already not when the project was started'


Ah, yes. Well spotted - I did not review the sources I used for the list before putting it together, as it is quite extensive, and it appears Yuni, of the Unit Commune, is not in there. I knew the Sansha True Slaves were not (Drake Arson, for example.), and I assume Yuni was not included for similar reasons. (Quite frankly, I don't remember for which specific purpose my notes were established, and there are some names I do not even recognize anymore.)

Nevertheless, in my opinion, her vote is still perfectly receivable, just like her proposals. At least in the scope of what our founder originally said. I think the reasons behind Joe not recording a proposal from her is because she did not made an explicit, detailed proposal, and was more dismissive of the whole process, but I may be wrong.

Also, Mr Takedi, please vote if you feel like participating in Arek'Jalaan. We still are a presumptive meritocracy, and in these dire times, I believe interest alone is enough to earn some merit.
Taraki Orani
BERSA Shipping Trading and Mining Co.
#39 - 2014-11-25 15:13:19 UTC
Hello Joe and other respective members of the Arek'Jaalan.

Some of you dont know me, well I will explain myself in a different time but lets just say that I am a colleage of yours, a fellow scientist..

I always wanted to be part of this great initiative for years, and as I see you all are restructuring and trying to improve, I would be honored to help Arek'Jaalan to achieve the goals.

I want to vote as well,

Thank you very much for the opportunity,

Taraki Orani

CEO of BERSA Co.


My vote:

Overall Structure:

- Item 1: A
- Item 2: A
- Item 3: A

Division Structure:

- Item 1: Yes
- Item 2: Yes
- Item 3: Yes
- Item 4: Yes
- Item 5: Yes
- Item 6: Yes
- Item 7: No (As I agree with Pr. Gehen that the vote counts as yes only if there is no General Council (Section I, Item 1) or it is not expected to take up the Administrative roles (Section II, Item 6))

Operations and mission:

- Item 1: Yes
- Item 2: Yes
- Item 3: Yes

Voting:

- Item 1: Yes
- Item 2: B
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#40 - 2014-12-12 14:13:12 UTC
So how about those results, eh ?

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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