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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Improving auction mechanics

Author
X ATM092
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-09-12 17:34:43 UTC
At the moment team auctions are a complete mess. Nobody does anything until 3 seconds to the end and then everyone yells out a price. This is pretty much as far from bidding against other individuals as you can get in an auction and, oddly enough, is a problem that has been experienced and solved by every auction group irl throughout history in a dozen different ways. In Medieval Florence they solved this issue by making the end time of the auction unknown to both participants and the auctioneer by isolating and guarding men at the belltower who would ring it within audible range of the auction at an appointed time without any knowledge of who was winning the auction at the time.

With that in mind I propose
- No exact end time, instead end time plus or minus 30 minutes.
additionally
- Auction extended by a minute each time a new high bid is placed with a minimum bid of 105% of the current high bid to prevent 0.01ing forever.

This isn't a new problem and it's not a new solution but it needs to be implemented.

Also please, please add a "my current bids" tab where you can see a list of the ongoing auctions you have bid on rather than having to find them all individually.
Triturus Alpestris
Bad Taste.
#2 - 2014-09-12 20:19:08 UTC
Auction extended by a minute each time a new bid is placed.
Minimum bid of 110% of the current bid.

I want this.
Kell Braugh
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-09-12 21:16:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Kell Braugh
Make the auction follow sealed first-price auction or blind auction mechanics.
One or more people submit their bids for the team, when auction ends, the system that garnered the highest combined bid wins.

What about ties you may say?
I think they will be rare, but first tie breaker can be the distance from the origin system to bidding system.
Need another tie breaker, in that prolly never gonna happen situation? Use the time of when the first bid was placed. It's blind.

Problem solved.


Extending the auctions screws with the supply side of things as it technically makes spawned teams available longer than the system originally intended. Also, the last thing we need is another war-of-attrition with 0.01 isk games for industry/marketeers.
Summer Isle
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#4 - 2014-09-12 21:19:13 UTC
Kell Braugh wrote:
Make the auction follow sealed first-price auction or blind auction mechanics.
One or more people submit their bids for the team, when auction ends, the system that garnered the highest combined bid wins.

What about ties you may say?
I think they will be rare, but first tie breaker can be the distance from the origin system to bidding system.
Need another tie breaker, in that prolly never gonna happen situation? Use the time of when the first bid was placed. It's blind.

Problem solved.

Going with the time method would be a better option, I think. If System A reached the tie-bid on day one, but System B didn't reach it until day four, System B shouldn't get the team just because they're a few jumps closer.

 Talk is cheap, but Void S and Quake L are cheaper.

Kell Braugh
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-09-12 21:31:11 UTC
Summer Isle wrote:

Going with the time method would be a better option, I think. If System A reached the tie-bid on day one, but System B didn't reach it until day four, System B shouldn't get the team just because they're a few jumps closer.

I was thinking that if you did time as the prime tie-breaker, then you run into timezone preference. The distance makes more logical sense as a factor.

RL-metaphor:
You are a factory worker in Chicago, you get a job offer from Milwaukee and another from Shenzhen. Both offer the same pay for the same work. Which would in general, be more prefered.

Back to the game example:
A team from Guristas Manufacturing would prolly prefer working in Tribute/Venal/Somewhere in the North over three jumps from Amarr in High Sec Domain.
X ATM092
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-09-12 21:41:58 UTC  |  Edited by: X ATM092
Kell Braugh wrote:

Extending the auctions screws with the supply side of things as it technically makes spawned teams available longer than the system originally intended. Also, the last thing we need is another war-of-attrition with 0.01 isk games for industry/marketeers.

You get one minute of extra auction duration for each 5% price increase by my system.

Say a team was going for 100m, to extend the auction by an hour would be 100m*(1.05^60) or a price of 1.9b for the team. And that's just with a minimum bid of 5% and everyone bidding the minimum.
Kell Braugh
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-09-12 22:14:55 UTC
According to the OP, the problem is sniping at the last minute with a higher bid, classically the 0.01 isk style bump (or w/e the min amount is for teams, 250?). All your suggestion does is extending the sniping into multiple rounds of sniping with a 5% minimum upbid.

My suggestion allows the auction to end as scheduled with no one feeling like they 'go sniped'. It also removes any advantage to alarm clocking an auction, which I think we can all agree is a horrible burden to put on people for an advantage in an internet spaceships game.

I'll be guy to point out the elephant in your OP here: You only want to 'fix' auction sniping if it means you end up paying the least amount of isk to win a team.

Not every industrial activity should go the lazy route of "how can we turn this into a 0.01 isk game" imho.

If you think the team is worth 500mil, bid 500mil. If you wanna take a risk by bidding less, do so, but someone else might not be willing to risk it and out bid you. How is that not fair?

X ATM092
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-09-12 22:28:26 UTC
Completely blind bidding is also an acceptable and known type of auction irl. I prefer my system but your proposal would still be a hell of a lot better than the current mess. As long as CCP works out that the problems plaguing their system are problems that have been solved irl a bunch of different ways and fixes them I don't really mind, I just want something functional.
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#9 - 2014-11-20 04:04:26 UTC
I will bump this because the current system is terribad, if you happen to be the current auction leader, the mechanic is such that you are nearly expected to try to snipe your own bid at the last second even if you are winning. Then it just becomes a guessing game of blindly throwing money at the auction when you have no idea how much money the other people trying to snipe the auction are bidding.

And mostly because this just happened to me, I was even doing my due diligence and staying up a few minutes late to make sure I won the auction. Refreshed the screen with like a couple sec to go, nothing changes, auction ends and the email says I lost... but the screen was just showing I was winning. Next time I will take a screenshot at the 1s mark. I know, I made the classic mistake of assuming this was an "auction" and actually bidding on it instead of just waiting and playing the snipe game.

This auction system is a mess and needs to be changed. Add a timer to the auction after the last bid so that the system can show everyone else interested that they just lost. Or since the snipe game is just a very shortened private/sealed silent auction then just make it full out silent sealed auction. Either solution would be better than what is currently in place. Like he said, this has come up in real life, it is not a new issue, and by no means a new solution.

But until then I guess in order to get what I need I will have to join the sniping club and potentially waste a bunch of ISK that I may or may not have needed to spend on an auction because after it is over you can't see anything else other than who one and how much they spent.