Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I find it quite interesting.

Quoted for truth.

I did not realize this was an issue. All major groups have eyes on them all the time and every time a super logs in everyone in the immediate area knows about it. However what you were wanting to do is prevent the ability to gather intel due to their wormhole presence. Really just deal with it. Everyone else has to.

With that noted a firm -1

I don't really see the problem and reason for the change beyond make a change for the sake of a change.

TLDR: No watchlist provides safety. WH's are not about safety so provide more options for the little guy but keep the risk for everyone.


It's just making use of extra intel gathering such as locator agents, bookmarking all the POSes you visit to quickly check player activity when rolling, checking things like staticmapper for activity, putting scouts permanently in a hole so that you can easily track and gank players living there and checking to see a corps prime time by their kills/losses, who is in that prime time and who isn't and how many members are in corp to determine who you can take and who's too powerful for your fleet.

WH's not having local doesn't mean no intel, it just means harder intel to come by. Removing or altering the watchlist won't remove the intel, it'll just make it harder to get. It also tends to be the least useful tool as you have no idea who you open up to each day. I'd find watchlisting much more useful in K-space than W-space. Unless you have no overwatch and you are stuck in a site pilots in the hole have more than enough time to address the OBVIOUS fact that a new sig just opened into them.

I think ganking should be easy in W-space honestly, it should be far riskier than K-space as the rewards are also greater. But like the recent changes to jumping wormholes, ganking should also be riskier too, not harder just riskier. Hopefully the T3 destroyers will help here as they are going to be the toughest things through the small ship wormhole and will have a safe exit from the T3 cruisers. Able to gank a distracted fleet and get out, all while fighting a class tougher than them without the logi ships a cruiser fleet can have (again risky).

Everything about W-space should feel terrifyingly risky. Making your log-in invisible does not do this. It makes it SAFE. So no. -1



To compensate how about some ideas that might make you feel better.

Although I enjoy the escalation site running that C5 wormholes have, many seem a bit too secure for what W-space really is. While C6's usually have to go a longer chain to get to hi-sec C5's with C3/C2 connections don't. The only real risk is when moving the loot out of the wormholes. Change the chains to become longer for those getting a hi-sec static easily, creating more risk to move goods in and out for the bigger Corps and Alliances. Go take what is yours back!

Sleepers (with **** loot) that show up depending on how many ships warp into a site. That way some of the gankers might die while they gank you. You won't survive but you can feel better about them not surviving too!

Sleepers (with **** loot) that actually hang out on the wormhole tying fleets up with small scram ships. Probably good to make these take a long time to spawn and re-spawn.

Things that extract more tears from the hi-class wormholes more than the low-class ones really. Make the five Tengus, Loki and Legion waiting for the guy not willing to risk anything take more risk to just sit and hope he leaves or distract them a little so that he can see an opening to get clear. That way it gives him an option while also adding more risk. This then asks the bigger fleets to pilot with more skill to get their kills.

To really improve this though, there should be a stick of sorts to keep people from POSing up entirely too. So that when an opening becomes available they actually take it.

Here's a really crazy one! A site that closes a wormhole that opens into you with a bit of hacking. This can then be defended by the gank fleet hoping to keep the WH open or hacked and closed the WH either trapping the fleet in your hole with no backup or sending them scurrying back before it closes on them. This of course should only appear after a certain time to avoid being used to rage-roll holes and be risky enough to prefer rolling the normal way (a good way of generating "content").

Please keep in mind these ideas are just plain SILLY and off the top of my head and better ones surely exist. But I'm sure you get the idea.

TLDR: No watchlist provides safety. WH's are not about safety so provide more options for the little guy but keep the risk for everyone.

Let's try a different version of that:

It simply tells a person when someone is in system, not where they are, what ship they are in and the people they have as their back up.

Exactly the same arguments are made for local. Maybe local should be introduced to wormholes?

Both are perfect, free intel and should be nerfed.

I see your point. Didn't remember about W-Space being supposed to be highly dangerous, and that this change would also be against that "rule" too. I like your last post, about giving more tools to targets instead of taking away the current ones. Thanks for the very constructive post.

No it doesn't. For all you know they could have logged in when you are all in bed and buggered off out. Congratulations, you are now sat in an empty hole thinking "oh crumbs, they are cloaked..."

Yeah, a cost system could work.


I don't think d-scan is a good comparison. It has limitations (range, must be clicked, does not get recorded in the notifications list) and requires skill to use to full effect.

You're ignoring the point of the comparison. Knowing who is home is not like local, which is knowing who is visiting.

Also using D-Scan "to full effect" to know if someone is in system requires you to press it about 1-3 times while warping across system set to max range and 360. This is even better than a watchlist, because that doesn't tell you what system they are in.

So tell me, how does removing watchlists NOT make W-Space safer?

In my opinion it makes sense as no communication beacon (which are necessary for the communication between the ships' computers and central Concord databases where chat and watch list data is stored and processed) is reachable in W-space. That's why you don't have immediate chat, but delayed, the same should apply for watch lists.