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Raytracing in EVE?

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cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#1 - 2014-11-19 10:30:21 UTC
When you use the term Physically Based Rendering, aka PBR, what exactly are your lighting models based on? Monte Carlo? Raytracing? The term is vague and I'm not sure how it fits within the framework of eve?

I know there are game engines that support raytracing but what exactly is PBR in eve online based on? Are you actually calculating lighting bouncing and scattering or cheating the effect?

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2 - 2014-11-19 10:41:51 UTC
Raytracers make potatoes cry.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#3 - 2014-11-19 10:44:36 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Raytracers make potatoes cry.


you need to upgrade your potato.

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#4 - 2014-11-19 10:55:43 UTC
Cyndrogen wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Raytracers make potatoes cry.


you need to upgrade your potato.

Leave my potato out of this!

My tower can handle them fine but my laptop potato nearly melted when I left it to render video using them.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#5 - 2014-11-19 10:56:45 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Cyndrogen wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Raytracers make potatoes cry.


you need to upgrade your potato.

Leave my potato out of this!

My tower can handle them fine but my laptop potato nearly melted when I left it to render video using them.




Stream..... let it stream.

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.
Sol Project
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#6 - 2014-11-19 17:36:32 UTC
http://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/learn/pbr-practice

This explains the matter really well and answers all questions asked.
It's NOT raytracing!

Ladies of New Eden YC 117 by Indahmawar Fazmarai

Warning: NSFW! Barely legal girls in underwear!

Diana Kim > AND THIS IS WHY THE FEDERATION MUST BE DESTROYED!!
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#7 - 2014-11-19 18:04:27 UTC
I remember when Goldfinger tried to trace James Bond with a death ray.



Or was it a laser?

Was that even Goldfinger?!??!

Pretty sure it was Goldfinger...

Anyway it didn't work.

I think.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Erin Crawford
#8 - 2014-11-19 18:25:40 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
I remember when Goldfinger tried to trace James Bond with a death ray.



Or was it a laser?

Was that even Goldfinger?!??!

Pretty sure it was Goldfinger...

Anyway it didn't work.

I think.


...most definitely Amarr!
Lol

"Those who talk don’t know. Those who know don’t talk. "
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#9 - 2014-11-19 19:17:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
imagine you have a classic per pixel light shader but you have the ability to set angle dependent material properties. Thats 90% of PBR. The term BPR itself is very loosely defined (its like web2.0 of computer graphics). If you want to read the full details look up the 2010 SIGGRAPH paper.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Serene Repose
#10 - 2014-11-19 19:24:47 UTC
PBR = Pabst Blue Ribbon - Let's not get out of hand here.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#11 - 2014-11-19 19:50:11 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Cyndrogen wrote:
When you use the term Physically Based Rendering, aka PBR, what exactly are your lighting models based on? Monte Carlo? Raytracing? The term is vague and I'm not sure how it fits within the framework of eve?

I know there are game engines that support raytracing but what exactly is PBR in eve online based on? Are you actually calculating lighting bouncing and scattering or cheating the effect?


Coming from a visual effects and animation background, having recently worked as a digital lighting technical director, I had, like you, presumed that physically-based rendering (PBR) systems generally required raytracing. I was wrong.

The important components of a PBR system are:

  • Linear high-dynamic-range lighting, which we rolled out as part of an earlier release
  • energy conservation as an upper limit for scattered light energy from a differential area on the surface
  • an angular distribution function that determines how incoming light scatters off the surface at different angles (in our case a Bidirectional Reflectance Distribution Function, or BRDF, though there are also Scattering and Transmissive distribution functions as well)
  • and for a non-raytraced system, an illumination map, for which we use our cube-mapped nebulas.

What we do not have that you might have seen from raytraced PBR implementations:

  • Any form of "global illumination," meaning light bouncing off one surface to illuminate another. (This includes raytraced reflections of other objects in the scene other than the illumination map, since in a PBR system, "diffuse bounce" is just a reflection with a broader BRDF.)
  • Raytraced shadows. (I'm pretty sure we're using depth map shadows.)
  • Any form of ray-marching volumetric techniques, such as you might use for caustics originating from transparent materials.

EVE's implementation is an in-house one, and primarily implemented by the shader. Visually, the results are much like those of a raytraced system, but with shadow blur and bounces at zero.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Kaaeliaa
Tyrannos Sunset
#12 - 2014-11-19 19:50:27 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
PBR = Pabst Blue Ribbon - Let's not get out of hand here.


That's what I keep thinking.

Next thought is, "Ew."

"Do not lift the veil. Do not show the door. Do not split the dream."
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#13 - 2014-11-19 20:17:04 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Good Info.



Some good stuff there.. but it still doesn't answer whether or not it was Goldfinger with the laser thing.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#14 - 2014-11-19 20:29:47 UTC
Having the sun be required to be in camera to see its effects on the ship and curreently no change on effect with changes of range from the sun could work better.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#15 - 2014-11-19 20:29:58 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Some good stuff there.. but it still doesn't answer whether or not it was Goldfinger with the laser thing.


"Do you expect me to talk?"

"No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die!"

Yes, that was Goldfinger.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#16 - 2014-11-19 20:52:57 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Some good stuff there.. but it still doesn't answer whether or not it was Goldfinger with the laser thing.


"Do you expect me to talk?"

"No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die!"

Yes, that was Goldfinger.


You just moved up the list of 'Devs of UaE's heart' if you didn't have to google that...

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#17 - 2014-11-19 21:08:02 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
You just moved up the list of 'Devs of UaE's heart' if you didn't have to google that...


Didn't.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Anke Eyrou
Hades Sisters
#18 - 2014-11-19 21:15:16 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
You just moved up the list of 'Devs of UaE's heart' if you didn't have to google that...


Didn't.


Showing your age me thinks!

I expect to get this post deleted or locked. So much for freedom of expression.

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#19 - 2014-11-19 22:51:44 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
You just moved up the list of 'Devs of UaE's heart' if you didn't have to google that...


Didn't.


Bonus points for sending me todays browsing history as proof...Big smile

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#20 - 2014-11-19 23:03:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
What is raytracing?

Is it that effect where you can see objects cast shadows in space whilst looking at the sun? The incursion ambiance already does this, on your ship and objects in space.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?
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