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[Ship Proposal]The Lynx, a Ninja Salvaging frigate

Author
Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Bear Works
#1 - 2014-11-19 00:53:02 UTC
For a long time, CCP has been giving shiny new toys to make life more easy for the mission running crowd. They've been given the Noctis and Mobile Tractor Units.
However, what about Ninja Salvaging? This once blooming profession has now faded into nothingness. Only a few brave souls still prowl the endless void in search of the vast wreckfields left behind by callous destroyers of ships.

Let's rekindle the interest in Ninja Salvaging shalll we? By introducing the Lynx.

The Lynx is a ship built by Thukker Mix, specialized in tracking down ships located in deadspace sites for the express purpose of salvaging whatever is left after a battle.

Because of the inherently dangerous nature of its area of operations, the Lynx is uniquely equipped with special nanites which assist the salvagers in breaking down debris more quickly. Furthermore, the ship is extremely maneuverable to dodge incoming fire and zip between battleships to enable salvaging operations even in ongoing battles.

Finally, its large interior cargo bay, combined with the newly introduced mobile depots give it a rather significant amount of versatility. using the depots as a mobile base to refit to different configurations on the fly.

Lynx
Thukker Frigate Bonus:
5% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus per level

Role Bonus:
50% reduction in Salvager and Salvage Drone duration
25% bonus to Combat Scanner Probe strenght


Slot layout: 4H, 4M, 1L, 3R; 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 48 PWG, 230 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 400 / 300 / 300
Capacitor (amount / recharge) : 250 / 135
Mobility (max velocity / Agility / Mass / warp speed / align time): 400 / 3.46 / 10000000 / 5.00 / 4.8s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 30
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 45km / 550 / 6
Capacity: 600m³
Sensor strength: 12 (LADAR)
Signature radius: 35m



I've purposely tried to avoid treading into the areas of operations of other ships too much. The result is a rather highly specialized ship which can be configured in quite a few different roles, be it not without drawbacks.
It should be relatively newbie friendly to fit and is meant to be as cheap as regular TI frigates to give them a cheap yet effective platform to try out a rather unknown playstyle which nevertheless can be a lot of fun.

Feel free to post constructive criticism and let's get a good discussion started shall we?
Captain Davison
Malachi Keep Detachments
#2 - 2014-11-19 02:40:42 UTC
Arden Elenduil wrote:
For a long time, CCP has been giving shiny new toys to make life more easy for the mission running crowd. They've been given the Noctis and Mobile Tractor Units.
However, what about Ninja Salvaging? This once blooming profession has now faded into nothingness. Only a few brave souls still prowl the endless void in search of the vast wreckfields left behind by callous destroyers of ships.

Let's rekindle the interest in Ninja Salvaging shalll we? By introducing the Lynx.

The Lynx is a ship built by Thukker Mix, specialized in tracking down ships located in deadspace sites for the express purpose of salvaging whatever is left after a battle.

Because of the inherently dangerous nature of its area of operations, the Lynx is uniquely equipped with special nanites which assist the salvagers in breaking down debris more quickly. Furthermore, the ship is extremely maneuverable to dodge incoming fire and zip between battleships to enable salvaging operations even in ongoing battles.

Finally, its large interior cargo bay, combined with the newly introduced mobile depots give it a rather significant amount of versatility. using the depots as a mobile base to refit to different configurations on the fly.

Lynx
Thukker Frigate Bonus:
5% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus per level

Role Bonus:
50% reduction in Salvager and Salvage Drone duration
25% bonus to Combat Scanner Probe strenght


Slot layout: 4H, 4M, 1L, 3R; 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 48 PWG, 230 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 400 / 300 / 300
Capacitor (amount / recharge) : 250 / 135
Mobility (max velocity / Agility / Mass / warp speed / align time): 400 / 3.46 / 10000000 / 5.00 / 4.8s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 30
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 45km / 550 / 6
Capacity: 600m³
Sensor strength: 12 (LADAR)
Signature radius: 35m



I've purposely tried to avoid treading into the areas of operations of other ships too much. The result is a rather highly specialized ship which can be configured in quite a few different roles, be it not without drawbacks.
It should be relatively newbie friendly to fit and is meant to be as cheap as regular TI frigates to give them a cheap yet effective platform to try out a rather unknown playstyle which nevertheless can be a lot of fun.

Feel free to post constructive criticism and let's get a good discussion started shall we?


Why not have it be a Thukker rebuild of the Venture? Convert the ore hold into a standard cargo bay, cordon off another 25-50 m3 for more drones and take some more space up for the expanded drone link (up to 25 mbit). Able to defend itself, carry lots of loot, and adjust it so that it doesn't carry intergal guns, instead having to make a choice between salvaging equipment or more defense equipment for both drones and high slots.

Makes reuse of the Venture model, and you get to add wingie bits to it if you want to make it a semi-pirate faction ship.
Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Bear Works
#3 - 2014-11-19 03:12:50 UTC
Using the Venture model wouldn't really make that much sense to be honest.
Ore isn't exactly on the friendliest terms with the Thukkers, and the Thukkers are also tinkerers themselves (they supply quite a few ships to the Minmatar Fleet).

Not only that, but they're known as salvagers and opportunists (which makes this ship fit quite well lore-wise). Ore, being the "good guys" having the Noctis which is meant as a standard issue salvaging ship, with the Thukkers operating in the darker areas of salvaging with the Lynx, trying to "steal" other people's salvage, which is the essence of Ninja Salvaging.

I've set the stats as such that the ship is both accessible to newer pilots and versatile, and able to be a powerful tool for the right job in the hands of a veteran, which is why it has the current slot/drone layout.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#4 - 2014-11-19 03:18:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Xindi Kraid
With the way salvaging works, this wouldn't actually be of THAT much benefit.
You'd still be better off in an exploration frigate for roving about, and it's not like you can scan for salvage (if you could then maybe this would be something to look at)

Fun fact there is such a ship as the Lynx in lore already (I think it is an outdated Caldari design, but I can't remember)
Jenshae Chiroptera
#5 - 2014-11-19 03:24:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Xindi Kraid wrote:
With the way salvaging works, this wouldn't actually be of THAT much benefit.
You'd still be better off in an exploration frigate for roving about, and it's not like you can scan for salvage (if you could then maybe this would be something to look at)

Fun fact there is such a ship as the Lynx in lore already (I think it is an outdated Caldari design, but I can't remember)


I find people doing missions by accident. You would just salvage a jump gate behind them. Trouble is the MTUs, all the goodies in the wrecks are gone.

Edit: Maybe have the MTU only deployable by certain ships, like the Noctis, Lynx and Destroyers?

Second edit: I enjoy salvaging in a destroyer, I won't risk ISK on a Noctis. I like dragging wrecks around after me, going to the next lot while I loot and salvage. Something about, I find quite funny.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Bear Works
#6 - 2014-11-19 03:24:20 UTC
The ship is basically meant to be ninja salvaging, which is quite a bit different from regular salvaging (can't tractor wrecks that don't belong to you and such).

This ship would be able to either zoom towards wrecks before they can be tractored, or depending on pilot skill, out-salvage a Noctis due to the reduction in cycle speed. The downside however, is that it would have to stick close to the Noctis.

I've spent almost the entirety of my Eve career salvaging, so I'm quite familiar with the ins and outs of it all.

That said, you are correct that there is a ship called the Lynx in the game (it's an Angel Cartel frigate). But that's just the name, it can be changed.
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#7 - 2014-11-19 03:49:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Gadget Helmsdottir
Why not just use a basic probeship? It already gets a scaling bonus to salvaging rate and probe strength. It has a slightly smaller cargo bay, but so what -- 400m3 is a lot of salvage. And as for the afterburner bonus... it's a frigate, it's going to be faster than anything it's ninja salvaging from. So, no I don't see a need for this ship.

Even if I did, I wouldn't make it Thukker, I would still keep it as an ORE product. I could see them making a version based off of the Venture, and it would fit the lore better. They already make the BC sized salvager, why not make a scaled down version as well?

I'm actually hoping that CCP introduces Thukker as the missing Minmatar/Caldari pirate faction combination. I seriously hope that this isn't what they'll be flying.

--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."

Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-11-19 03:51:49 UTC
It seems that you're missing a bonus to your ship. I suggest swapping the 50% salvage duration reduction role bonus with a 200% salvager range bonus, and then giving a 10% per level reduction in salvage duration.
Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Bear Works
#9 - 2014-11-19 04:00:43 UTC
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:
Why not just use a basic probeship? It already gets a scaling bonus to salvaging rate and probe strength. It has a slightly smaller cargo bay, but so what -- 400m3 is a lot of salvage. And as for the afterburner bonus... it's a frigate, it's going to be faster than anything it's ninja salvaging from. So, no I don't see a need for this ship.

Even if I did, I wouldn't make it Thukker, I would still keep it as an ORE product. I could see them making a version based off of the Venture, and it would fit the lore better. They already make the BC sized salvager, why not make a scaled down version as well?

I'm actually hoping that CCP introduces Thukker as the missing Minmatar/Caldari pirate faction combination. I seriously hope that this isn't what they'll be flying.

--Gadget


A basic probeship can be used to this end, however they are not nearly fast enough to compete directly with for instance, a noctis.
Which is why there is the afterburner bonus combined with the 50% salvage speed bonus. I don't think a range bonus is that necessary since the speed of the ship is already quite high.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-11-19 04:04:35 UTC
Arden Elenduil wrote:

Which is why there is the afterburner bonus combined with the 50% salvage speed bonus. I don't think a range bonus is that necessary since the speed of the ship is already quite high.

The range is necessary to keep your transversal up. If you want this to be true...
Quote:
Furthermore, the ship is extremely maneuverable to dodge incoming fire and zip between battleships to enable salvaging operations even in ongoing battles.

...then you don't want the ship stuck orbiting a stationary object at 5k. It needs to be able to move, which means it can't be on a short leash to its targets.
Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Bear Works
#11 - 2014-11-19 04:11:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Arden Elenduil
Check the numbers on the agility. I think you'll find that it's quite agile. That said, speed when orbiting a wreck isn't as important as it is when moving somewhere else, you'll speed tank just fine anyhow. Also, standard range on TI salvagers is 5km, plenty I'd say, and Ihardly ever get stuck on objects.
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#12 - 2014-11-19 04:14:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Gadget Helmsdottir
Arden Elenduil wrote:
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:
Why not just use a basic probeship? It already gets a scaling bonus to salvaging rate and probe strength. It has a slightly smaller cargo bay, but so what -- 400m3 is a lot of salvage. And as for the afterburner bonus... it's a frigate, it's going to be faster than anything it's ninja salvaging from. So, no I don't see a need for this ship.

Even if I did, I wouldn't make it Thukker, I would still keep it as an ORE product. I could see them making a version based off of the Venture, and it would fit the lore better. They already make the BC sized salvager, why not make a scaled down version as well?

I'm actually hoping that CCP introduces Thukker as the missing Minmatar/Caldari pirate faction combination. I seriously hope that this isn't what they'll be flying.

--Gadget


A basic probeship can be used to this end, however they are not nearly fast enough to compete directly with for instance, a noctis.
Which is why there is the afterburner bonus combined with the 50% salvage speed bonus. I don't think a range bonus is that necessary since the speed of the ship is already quite high.


Really? Competing with the Noctis for speed?
Just how much of a 'burner bonus do you need to have for that frig to fly faster than the Noctis can pull a wreck?

Seriously though, you can get 25% salvage time bonus with the probeship already. I'd rather see a mod that could increase that. Right now that ship is far too similar to the probeship... the FREE probeship ya get from the tuts. What can it do that the probeship can't? Being a slightly faster frigate isn't going to cut it. It's also a new skill to train... for one ship. And while the increase in salvage time is a nice start, it also isn't enough since the probeship already gets a smaller version of it. As it is, there's no real justification for a new ship to do one of the probeship's jobs. Give it something more to fill this 'Ninja' niche better, and then we'll see.

--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."

Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Bear Works
#13 - 2014-11-19 04:25:19 UTC
This ship maxes out with a regular AB and max skills to about 1500m/s, which is more than enough to keep up with a noctis' tractor speed. Regular probing ships can only push 1km/s (thereabouts). And a 50% bonus is already quite significant for salvaging. I'd rather not make it too OP.

While I could agree with making it an Ore ship (and renaming the mining frigate skill to utility frigate), the rest of the ship is very optimized for what it's meant to do.
Ix Method
Doomheim
#14 - 2014-11-19 10:05:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ix Method
If you really want this to be a T1 newbro ship it shouldn't excel over the Noctis in any practical way. T1 Logi is the obvious, cross-class example, the only advantages the frigates have are their natural traits of speed/sig/cost and this would have to fit the same logic.

As is it's absurdly specialised/powerful for a T1 ship. If it was a faction Ore/Min off the Venture as was suggested ^^ perhaps but we sure as **** shouldn't get a 300k frigate that obsoletes plenty of ships that fill this role quite well already.

Arden Elenduil wrote:
I don't think a range bonus is that necessary since the speed of the ship is already quite high.

Plenty of ships have speed and can fit 5km salvagers. Can see the use of 2x speed salvagers sure but 9/10 the value of them would be quicker salvaging, not competing with Noctis, something that rigs/T2 can do just as well. The main kicker with Ninja Salvaging is immobile wrecks and tanking rats, if we're going for a specialised Ninja Salvaging role a range bonus seems eminently sensible?

IIRC you can't change Drone ROF/cycle time (not sure with the flat role bonus?) but that could be swapped out for a full flight anyway I guess.

Travelling at the speed of love.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#15 - 2014-11-19 13:36:18 UTC
What if there was a rig that boosted salvage rate and you could only get small ones?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#16 - 2014-11-19 16:35:08 UTC
Again, I'm all for a dedicated salvaging frig for maximum ninjaness, but I keep thinking it should be an Expedition Frigate; T2 Venture variant, bonused for Salvager cycle time and chance with covops cloak or +2 warp strengh, and painted in blazing orange. It seems the simplest, most obvious way to do it for me.
Ceawlin Cobon-Han
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2014-11-19 16:54:25 UTC
When proposing a new ship it's always the case that people list its advantages. However there needs to be balance maintained, so those on the receiving end aren't rendered helpless.

I believe the sig radius needs to be larger than 35; probably the size of a cruiser at least, so 120 minimum. Any decent ninja waits until the mission runner is pulling aggro before going to work, so this won't affect the danger from the mission rats. However, it does allow the runner to target faster and get better hits on the thieving $^&$%&.

I like the idea of this ship.

+1
Quinn Oron
Apraxia
#18 - 2014-11-19 17:29:43 UTC
This would fit in with the lore. The Lynx class frigate has already been established as a salvager (one was featured pretty prominently in The Empyrean Age novel - the Retford). I thought it was of Gallente make, but it could be Angel/Thukker/whatever.

I always imagined it was one of the potentially numerous ship classes that are in the established universe but not in the actual game because they weren't 'advanced' enough for capsuleers or compatible with pod technology or somesuch.

The novel more or less described the class as a 'shitcan'.P
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#19 - 2014-11-19 18:07:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Gadget Helmsdottir
The more I think about this, the better I like the idea of a range bonus to salvagers that others have mentioned and a lesser bonus to salvage time. The afterburner thing just doesn't sit quite right. How would this stack up to tackling ships in terms of speed should a pilot decide to ignore salvaging and use it for scout work?

Take what you've got so far. Lose the AB bonus. Move the salvage time bonus from a 50% role bonus to a 7% per ORE Frigate level (or whatever it's called), and add in a 100-200% salvager range role bonus. Also, either drop the cargo capacity OR the dronebay capacity (400m3 or 15m3; pick one. My choice is the smaller cargo bay).

I kinda wish there was a way to make the high slot layout take two turrets OR two launchers without allowing 2 AND 2 and still keep 4 slots. Oh, well.

These changes will allow the ship to keep the nature of ninja salvaging in mind, and do that role well. It will also allow for regular salvaging a bit faster than in a dessie, but won't overshadow a Noctis. It will allow for a 35% bonus to salvaging time and its salvager extensions will give it a unique place in the shiplists. The extensions also lose the need for the AB bonus, which in turn lessens the possibility of out tackling a tackler.

The big problem that I see is that the Noctis gets only a 5% per level bonus to it's salvager duration, but I think this is passable due to the expected harsher salvaging environment of the Lynx. So, it'll be about balancing this version of the Lynx's speed and salvager extension vs. the Noctis' tractor speed and extension.

--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."

Ceawlin Cobon-Han
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2014-11-19 18:52:06 UTC
MTU plus this ship and kiss goodbye to the noctis.
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