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Save Our Clones Initiative.

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Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#321 - 2014-11-18 22:03:38 UTC
Jvpiter wrote:
13kr1d1 wrote:

If it actually impacts gameplay in the moment in any way, it becomes another variable to control for in an already complex rock-paper-scissors game. Will it make rock or paper bigger, and blur the difference between being able to rationally figure out a person's fit or just go #YOLO coinflip into a fight because they might be running clone X which will push a setup over the edge?



Maybe there is a core EVE philosophy somewhere that loss should be meaningful, and players should always be careful in the choices they make and so on and so forth. This is what HTFU is about, after all.


But I think what CCP saw is that clone grade costs were so discouraging to pilots with expensive clones is that it deters undocks and good fights. EVE thrives on conflict, and I believe what this change will encourage is more conflict.



I don't think so personally, I just think the null bears will start whining about implant costs next, and how they shouldn't be penalised for losing them etc.

eventually eve will be like wow in space.

If that happens I can assure you all that my name won't be on the next ******* monument in Iceland.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#322 - 2014-11-18 22:07:54 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Kamahl Daikun wrote:
Instead of taking chances not to lose your pod, just nerf bubbles. And players. Get rid of PvP altogether because the risks are obviously outweighing the potential for you.

Alternatively, just remove a stupid death tax that penalizes you for using the same character instead of rolling multiple alts and for being a loyal customer.


Because death taxes aren't covered by the alliance srp. Seems to me like that's the part that hurts.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Kamahl Daikun
State War Academy
Caldari State
#323 - 2014-11-18 22:25:57 UTC
Magormor wrote:
13kr1d1 wrote:
I agree. I don't really see why they have to further negatively impact the gameplay of Eve because people can't adapt.


lololol who is "not adapting"???


my 10 cents. Clone cost is silly. I often wont engage a gang with a sabre unless I know I can win. I do otherwise take fights that have a high probability of my loosing, but I hate to add an extra 20mill to each death so there is less content.

I am a PVPer saying I will adapt for the good effects of me PVPing more. You have 0 PVP kills and 1 pod loss. This does not affect you. https://zkillboard.com/character/581013969/


You're a PvPer who can't get your pod out?
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#324 - 2014-11-18 22:29:09 UTC
Kamahl Daikun wrote:
Magormor wrote:
13kr1d1 wrote:
I agree. I don't really see why they have to further negatively impact the gameplay of Eve because people can't adapt.


lololol who is "not adapting"???


my 10 cents. Clone cost is silly. I often wont engage a gang with a sabre unless I know I can win. I do otherwise take fights that have a high probability of my loosing, but I hate to add an extra 20mill to each death so there is less content.

I am a PVPer saying I will adapt for the good effects of me PVPing more. You have 0 PVP kills and 1 pod loss. This does not affect you. https://zkillboard.com/character/581013969/


You're a PvPer who can't get your pod out?


Are you the one who has the magic method for getting your pod out of a sabre's bubble?
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#325 - 2014-11-18 22:30:57 UTC
On the bright side, we now have the interesting choice of whether or not to update our outdated clones before the patch. Big smile

I have nothing to say about the OP which couldn't be interpreted as a personal attack.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#326 - 2014-11-18 22:41:22 UTC
Mharius Skjem wrote:
Because death taxes aren't covered by the alliance srp. Seems to me like that's the part that hurts.

Because everyone who thinks this is an awesome change is in a large null-sec alliance with an SRP.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#327 - 2014-11-18 22:48:12 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Mharius Skjem wrote:
Because death taxes aren't covered by the alliance srp. Seems to me like that's the part that hurts.

Because everyone who thinks this is an awesome change is in a large null-sec alliance with an SRP.


I'm glad you agree with me Lol

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#328 - 2014-11-18 22:59:07 UTC
Mharius Skjem wrote:
Jvpiter wrote:
13kr1d1 wrote:

If it actually impacts gameplay in the moment in any way, it becomes another variable to control for in an already complex rock-paper-scissors game. Will it make rock or paper bigger, and blur the difference between being able to rationally figure out a person's fit or just go #YOLO coinflip into a fight because they might be running clone X which will push a setup over the edge?



Maybe there is a core EVE philosophy somewhere that loss should be meaningful, and players should always be careful in the choices they make and so on and so forth. This is what HTFU is about, after all.


But I think what CCP saw is that clone grade costs were so discouraging to pilots with expensive clones is that it deters undocks and good fights. EVE thrives on conflict, and I believe what this change will encourage is more conflict.



I don't think so personally, I just think the null bears will start whining about implant costs next, and how they shouldn't be penalised for losing them etc.

eventually eve will be like wow in space.

If that happens I can assure you all that my name won't be on the next ******* monument in Iceland.

Cool thing about implants is you don't get penalized for it plugging them in.
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#329 - 2014-11-18 23:04:35 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Mharius Skjem wrote:
Jvpiter wrote:
13kr1d1 wrote:

If it actually impacts gameplay in the moment in any way, it becomes another variable to control for in an already complex rock-paper-scissors game. Will it make rock or paper bigger, and blur the difference between being able to rationally figure out a person's fit or just go #YOLO coinflip into a fight because they might be running clone X which will push a setup over the edge?



Maybe there is a core EVE philosophy somewhere that loss should be meaningful, and players should always be careful in the choices they make and so on and so forth. This is what HTFU is about, after all.


But I think what CCP saw is that clone grade costs were so discouraging to pilots with expensive clones is that it deters undocks and good fights. EVE thrives on conflict, and I believe what this change will encourage is more conflict.



I don't think so personally, I just think the null bears will start whining about implant costs next, and how they shouldn't be penalised for losing them etc.

eventually eve will be like wow in space.

If that happens I can assure you all that my name won't be on the next ******* monument in Iceland.

Cool thing about implants is you don't get penalized for it plugging them in.


implants only represent advantages, they give you an edge in return for isk. Lose them and you are just the same as everyone else which is hardly a disadvantage.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#330 - 2014-11-19 00:03:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Derath Ellecon
Mharius Skjem wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Mharius Skjem wrote:
Jvpiter wrote:
13kr1d1 wrote:

If it actually impacts gameplay in the moment in any way, it becomes another variable to control for in an already complex rock-paper-scissors game. Will it make rock or paper bigger, and blur the difference between being able to rationally figure out a person's fit or just go #YOLO coinflip into a fight because they might be running clone X which will push a setup over the edge?



Maybe there is a core EVE philosophy somewhere that loss should be meaningful, and players should always be careful in the choices they make and so on and so forth. This is what HTFU is about, after all.


But I think what CCP saw is that clone grade costs were so discouraging to pilots with expensive clones is that it deters undocks and good fights. EVE thrives on conflict, and I believe what this change will encourage is more conflict.



I don't think so personally, I just think the null bears will start whining about implant costs next, and how they shouldn't be penalised for losing them etc.

eventually eve will be like wow in space.

If that happens I can assure you all that my name won't be on the next ******* monument in Iceland.

Cool thing about implants is you don't get penalized for it plugging them in.


implants only represent advantages, they give you an edge in return for isk. Lose them and you are just the same as everyone else which is hardly a disadvantage.


While i dont think clone cost removal is the big issue this thread seems to make, implant loss removal would be BAD
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#331 - 2014-11-19 00:45:18 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
While i dont think clone cost removal is the big issue this thread seems to make, implant loss removal would be BAD

This I agree on. Only caveat, option of some form of salvage from corpse. Opportunities for killer and killed. But that's a separate discussion.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#332 - 2014-11-19 04:19:37 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:
Why is the original vision of Eve being torn apart? It was fine for 10 years.


Because it's a grade-A kick in the teeth serves no purpose other than to be punitive in the extreme?

Because it's the sort of thing that drives newbies away?

Because it's a **** mechanic that's ****?

Good riddance to bad game mechanics I say. Excuse me while I enjoy the tears of bittervets who will whinge about anything and everything.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#333 - 2014-11-19 06:33:26 UTC
again, instead of this crap, #savetheLANCE

Just Add Water
Neesa Corrinne
Nyx Legion..
Breakpoint.
#334 - 2014-11-19 06:56:23 UTC
You know what? I just want to get into an interceptor or AF without thinking to myself "My CLONE is worth more than this ship and it's fittings."
ArchenTheGreat
Interstellar Clone Transport
#335 - 2014-11-19 09:47:33 UTC  |  Edited by: ArchenTheGreat
I am all for the change but I will play advocatus diaboli for a moment. It's not like clone upgrade is not a decision to take. It's important factor when choosing clone station during wars. Being podded to the closest station is not always good choice if this station has no cloning facility. So you have a choice of getting back to action fast or getting back to action safely. Attacker has a choice: go for ships (reducing immediate threat but risking enemy going back from nearby base) or go for pods (and removing enemy from field permanently because clone station is far away).
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#336 - 2014-11-19 09:55:31 UTC
Adherence to administrative protocol is not engaging gameplay. It can go.
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#337 - 2014-11-19 10:04:02 UTC
Disagree with this thread, and agree with the Dev's. It's a good change! Cool

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Mithandra
B.O.P Supplication For Glorious
Dracarys.
#338 - 2014-11-19 10:37:52 UTC
Carry on with the simplification of eve for the unwashed, uneducated, attention deficient masses.

It makes good business sense after all

Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
Mister Holder
Faceless Men
#339 - 2014-11-19 11:24:08 UTC
Cost of clones has been prohibitive for high SP players wanting to use low cost ships.

40m for a clone > 5m for a full t2 fit, t1 frig. Why would anyone hop in one then?



IMO clone costs, and the SP they held brought nothing to the game. I am glad they are being removed. Now I just wish CCP would remove learning implants and give everyone a blanket SP rate. Maybe have new boosters be manufactured to give you a boost for x amount of time on your learning.
Thalos Elongus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#340 - 2014-11-19 11:28:24 UTC
I had another "Issue" with the clones...

You need to find a station that actually has a med bay in order to upgrade your medical clone. I was kicked out of a null-sec station, and that moved my clone to Jita 4-4...

There is no Medical station in Jita 4-4!!! And i have some station campers which try to blow me up on an undock from there... I did manage to get out, but this was not nice.

You always upgrade your clone if you die... So it makes no sense to have this feature...

Its not "dumbing down eve" - Its removing a hassle...

The cost of a clone is also something that annoys older players and prevents them from joining skrimishes in Frigs or something that might cause a death. You are able to save your implants if you wish via Jumpclones, but loosing your skillpoints is such a pain and there is no real benefit to it.