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Why must Gallente Armor tank?
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#21 - 2011-12-10 23:53:13 UTC
Gallente need to armor tank because CCP decided that hull tanking should not be viable. If hull reps were as good as armor reps, and bulkheads didn't slow you down so much (and had variations similar to the armor plates/shield extenders) gallente would be perfect for hull tanking.

They have the right mix of mids and lows to do it.
They have the most hull HP.
We already have a race that armor tanks, one that shield tanks, and one that does a bit of everything (including speed/sig tank).
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2011-12-11 02:23:56 UTC
Buzzmong wrote:
Why must Gallente armour tank?

Because CCP designed them for hull tanking (hence, highest stucture values and mentions of it in the older lore), but decided part way through that hull tanking wasn't something they wanted to even go near, so decided to switch to armour.

Personally, for added flavour, I'd like to see hull tanking actually get a serious look in by CCP. Adding another viable method of tanking could be rather interesting.


Yes, we were hull tankers once, but then we took an arrow to the knee....

I got lost in thought... it was unfamiliar territory.
Hyrath Rotineque
Dagger-1
The.Enclave
#23 - 2011-12-11 03:08:39 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
Gallente need to armor tank because CCP decided that hull tanking should not be viable. If hull reps were as good as armor reps, and bulkheads didn't slow you down so much (and had variations similar to the armor plates/shield extenders) gallente would be perfect for hull tanking.

They have the right mix of mids and lows to do it.
They have the most hull HP.
We already have a race that armor tanks, one that shield tanks, and one that does a bit of everything (including speed/sig tank).

Really liking the idea of a viable hull tank for Gallente ships.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2011-12-11 04:13:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Verity Sovereign
Orlacc wrote:
Verity always seems to want what she/he can't have.


Well, if you must know, Big smile
What I would really like is a shield tanking laser & drone armed ship that isn't slower than snot.

The Myrmidion gets pretty close except for its active rep bonus, and low speed.

Ie, Sansha with a bit more speed and a bit more drones.
(though I prefer the look of Amarr and Gallente ships)

ie for frigates something like a succubus with a 5 m3 drone bay (well I'd prefer 15, but I gotta be realistic) and +50 m/s speed.

Or even better something like a fed Navy comet with the gun bonuses of the Succubus with a 3/4/3 slot layout rather than a 3/3/4 layout.

Or a Vexor navy issue with a 5/6/3 (or 5/5/4) slot layout and laser instead of hybrid gun bonuses
Vigilant with 1 more mid, 1 less low, and laser not hybrid bonuses?

Phantasm with 1 more low, extra speed, and a larger drone bay (I think the Phantasm is the best looking of the Sansha ship).

I currently use the Nightmare the most, but its slow, and for a BS its got a small drone bay...
Renge Ukyo
Doomheim
#25 - 2011-12-15 11:24:44 UTC
Emily Poast wrote:

Honestly, I would prefer it if the Gal ships mentioned (and you should probably include the Thorax too, because it often shield fit) could excel WITHOUT having to fit shields. Give armor tankers a less effective, but still viable armor-tank "speed" option that is all but necessary on blaster boats. Current armor rigs completly destroy speed for the blaster race that needs it the most.



Finally, someone who understands speed is a prerequisite to close range brawling tactics. Armor and blasters do -not- go together.
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2011-12-15 15:25:06 UTC
Shield tanking and Engineering requires science.

Gallente don't have it, so their mechanics slap on another 1600 mm plating and multi layers of coatings. Gallente can't even design a CPU.

Their ship controls are simplified and autonomous drones handle it for captains. Gallente's selling point is fashion and cavalary - plated horses that charge and throw opponents to the ground.

Caldari's selling point is long range weapons combined with shielding in the light of lack of armor, e-war and tricks to foul gallente.

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again
dream3874
Tears of Redemption
#27 - 2011-12-15 15:55:07 UTC
Real men hull tanki! But seriously ccp should consider hull tanking for Gellente it only make sense.
Kahz Niverrah
Distinguished Johnsons
#28 - 2011-12-15 16:09:49 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
And yet, other races get bonuses which are always useful.
Oh, you mean like laser cap usage bonus on the punisher, maller, prophecy and covert legion?

I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I post with my main.
Seizwell
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2011-12-15 16:12:19 UTC
I like the idea of hull tanking based on lore but it is extremely impractical. You get no safety net to realize your tank is failing, and you have an armour and a hull repair bill to pay if you are not using reppers.
FlameGlow
Perkone
Caldari State
#30 - 2011-12-15 16:26:34 UTC
Seizwell wrote:
I like the idea of hull tanking based on lore but it is extremely impractical. You get no safety net to realize your tank is failing, and you have an armour and a hull repair bill to pay if you are not using reppers.

So basically you're saying it's for real men?
Seizwell
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2011-12-15 17:05:24 UTC
FlameGlow wrote:
Seizwell wrote:
I like the idea of hull tanking based on lore but it is extremely impractical. You get no safety net to realize your tank is failing, and you have an armour and a hull repair bill to pay if you are not using reppers.

So basically you're saying it's for real men?


Precisely.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#32 - 2011-12-16 05:31:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
So, Gallente have issues because buffer tanks slow them down, as do armor rigs....but active tanks don't require armor rigs to be effective (though they'd be nice), and don't add mass like plates do....why don't they do something with this?

thhief ghabmoef
Emily Poast
The Whipping Post
#33 - 2011-12-16 06:34:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Emily Poast
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
So, Gallente have issues because buffer tanks slow them down, as do armor rigs....but active tanks don't require armor rigs to be effective (though they'd be nice), and don't add mass like plates do....why don't they do something with this?


Yeah, I agree. Ive had a number of dual rep ships before, but I always put armor rigs on them.

Recently, I have been flying around in a dual-rep setup with no armor rigs (none for sale in my area of lowsec) and it is refreshing how quick the ship is. Really - they just need to get rid of the speed penalty on the armor rigs - or at least on the armor rep rigs. As someone said earlier, those speed penalties put an arrow through the proverbial Gallente knee.

EDIT: The other problem with the Gallente blaster boats is that they dont have a utility high-slot. For an "active tanking" cap intensive race, a nos seems tailor made, but the ships that need them the most cant fit them. Yet some other races that shant be named have utility highs galore.
Federigo Mondial
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#34 - 2011-12-16 08:53:10 UTC
Emily Poast wrote:

EDIT: The other problem with the Gallente blaster boats is that they dont have a utility high-slot. For an "active tanking" cap intensive race, a nos seems tailor made, but the ships that need them the most cant fit them. Yet some other races that shant be named have utility highs galore.


Oh laud you mean teh Rifter and AC hurricane ? ;)
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#35 - 2011-12-16 09:50:36 UTC
Amarr and Caldari are hard tanks in one type. Minnie and Gallente are medium tanks in one type light in the other. You can shield tank lots of Gallente ships/armor tank Minnie ships. Also there cap ships get a remote rep bonus to BOTH (I think there logi's should too but TJMHO) But at the end of the day one they do get a self bonus to tanking it should be to the ones they are and it should be less effective in the long term than there hard tank counter parts.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#36 - 2011-12-17 02:29:37 UTC
Emily Poast wrote:
[quote=Fronkfurter McSheebleton]EDIT: The other problem with the Gallente blaster boats is that they dont have a utility high-slot. For an "active tanking" cap intensive race, a nos seems tailor made, but the ships that need them the most cant fit them. Yet some other races that shant be named have utility highs galore.

Very true, but you don't HAVE to use all of the gun slots. : /

The Hyperion in particular would work fine with 7 guns, IMO. The mega does it with the same damage bonus, right?

thhief ghabmoef
Raven Ether
Doomheim
#37 - 2011-12-17 12:22:20 UTC
Get rid of armor rep bonus on Myrmidon. Allow flexibility.
vorneus
Hub2
#38 - 2011-12-17 15:32:37 UTC  |  Edited by: vorneus
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
Emily Poast wrote:
[quote=Fronkfurter McSheebleton]EDIT: The other problem with the Gallente blaster boats is that they dont have a utility high-slot. For an "active tanking" cap intensive race, a nos seems tailor made, but the ships that need them the most cant fit them. Yet some other races that shant be named have utility highs galore.

Very true, but you don't HAVE to use all of the gun slots. : /

The Hyperion in particular would work fine with 7 guns, IMO. The mega does it with the same damage bonus, right?


True but the mega also gets 7 lows = more damage mods or more TE's to improve its already superior tracking. Or tank of course.

Basically if you were going to not fit 8 guns on a Hyperion, you may as well fly a Megathron (edit: yes I know the Hype is a superior active tanker etc. etc. blah so in very small gangs and 1vs1 you might choose a Hype over Mega)

Back on topic.. this is an interesting thread. The one thing I totally agree with is that armor rigs effecting active tanks (nanobot accel. and aux nano pump) should not have the same penalty as trimarks. Whether resist rigs do or not is a bit more of a grey area, but I'd like to see them lose the trimark penalty as well (which should stay, as it makes sense).

-Ed

This one time, I like, totally did some stuff.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#39 - 2011-12-17 17:13:08 UTC
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
Emily Poast wrote:
[quote=Fronkfurter McSheebleton]EDIT: The other problem with the Gallente blaster boats is that they dont have a utility high-slot. For an "active tanking" cap intensive race, a nos seems tailor made, but the ships that need them the most cant fit them. Yet some other races that shant be named have utility highs galore.

Very true, but you don't HAVE to use all of the gun slots. : /

The Hyperion in particular would work fine with 7 guns, IMO. The mega does it with the same damage bonus, right?


Nothing stops you from only fitting 7 guns, and using the 8th high for something else.
Gritz1
Ice Fire Warriors
#40 - 2011-12-17 21:00:44 UTC
Raven Ether wrote:
Get rid of armor rep bonus on Myrmidon. Allow flexibility.


Triple rep myrms are a tough nut to crack, and can stay on the field longer then most other ships because of this bonus. removing it would hurt this greatly.