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War dec Fees

Author
Tora Bushido
From Hisec with Love Holdings
From Hisec with Love Coalition
#1 - 2014-11-17 15:17:43 UTC
I would like war dec fees to change. Smaller corps should start expensive and the bigger an alliance gets, the cheaper it gets. This way you can "spare" more smaller corps and newbie players. The larger alliances are rich enough to handle things themselves and counter us.

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2 - 2014-11-17 15:21:32 UTC
To add to this, if the corp involved folds before the fighting period begins, the wardec fee should be refunded.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#3 - 2014-11-17 17:31:44 UTC
or all the people who were in the corp who would have been war dec'ed should have the whole week of being war dec'ed that was paid for :D
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4 - 2014-11-17 17:34:27 UTC
Gawain Edmond wrote:
or all the people who were in the corp who would have been war dec'ed should have the whole week of being war dec'ed that was paid for :D


Since that would create issues regarding repeatedly aggressing people in NPC corps, which is apparently a sacred cow they are still holding on to, my suggestion would be to generate killrights against people who leave a corp during an active war.

I still think that if they dec dodge in the 24 hour cooldown window that the fees should be refunded, though.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2014-11-18 00:26:23 UTC
Saw this earlier and forgot to comment:

Seems like such a sliding scale would encourage people to just form their own one-man corps.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#6 - 2014-11-18 00:56:14 UTC
Wardeccs are being used as a tool to destroy player corporations and force people into NPC corps. That is bad for highsec, and bad for the game. We should be making it easier to be in a highsec corp, not more difficult. Wardeccs need to be revamped so they can only hit bigger corps/alliances, say a minimum of 25+ people, or barring that, removed from highsec entirely.

Big -1 to any idea that makes it easier to perpetuate these useless wars and discourages social interaction in highsec.
Thomas Gallant
Quafe Company Courier Shipping
#7 - 2014-11-18 01:02:15 UTC
To be honest I'm really not sure what CCP intends war decs to be used for (originally or now) It's kind of a mystery to me.
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-11-18 01:13:11 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Wardeccs are being used as a tool to destroy player corporations and force people into NPC corps. That is bad for highsec, and bad for the game. We should be making it easier to be in a highsec corp, not more difficult. Wardeccs need to be revamped so they can only hit bigger corps/alliances, say a minimum of 25+ people, or barring that, removed from highsec entirely.

Big -1 to any idea that makes it easier to perpetuate these useless wars and discourages social interaction in highsec.


War decs are social interaction. One of the people I enjoy talking to the most in game is the first person who decced me (also the first person who taught me about locator agents and why mining in a retriever during a war dec is a bad idea).

Thomas Gallant wrote:
To be honest I'm really not sure what CCP intends war decs to be used for (originally or now) It's kind of a mystery to me.


An isk sink to allow combat in high sec. I don't think I can make it less mysterious.
Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Bear Works
#9 - 2014-11-18 01:32:57 UTC
The main issue with wardecs is that currently, people (mainly the defenders) don't have any reason or incentive to actually stand up and defend themselves. It's much easier, and usually a better idea for them, to simply dodge the dec or wait it out.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#10 - 2014-11-18 02:05:53 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
To add to this, if the corp involved folds before the fighting period begins, the wardec fee should be refunded.


+ 1 to this idea, those who dec should not be punished for those who choose to disband and close a corp during the 24 hour start up period.

Gawain Edmond wrote:
or all the people who were in the corp who would have been war dec'ed should have the whole week of being war dec'ed that was paid for :D

Simply NO. CCP always needs to leave an out for those who do not want any part of a war dec. If the corp disbands and closes in the first 24 hours the refund is good enough. After that as the saying goes you pay your money and take you chances.

Thomas Gallant wrote:
To be honest I'm really not sure what CCP intends war decs to be used for (originally or now) It's kind of a mystery to me.

SInce there is no Sov in high sec there is no battle over a region of space, and with no moon mining they are rarely filed over the location of a POS. The only reason WD exist in high sec is to give PvP players a legitimate way to try and muster up a fight without Concord intervention.

Arden Elenduil wrote:
The main issue with wardecs is that currently, people (mainly the defenders) don't have any reason or incentive to actually stand up and defend themselves. It's much easier, and usually a better idea for them, to simply dodge the dec or wait it out.

This is a part of the problem for sure, why fight and most likely die when there is nothing to be gained.
Another part of this is the unreal expectations of those who file the WD. People that want to fight will, and can often be found in low sec looking for just that. Those in high sec who do not want a fight never will no matter what the rules are or what you do.
Helios Panala
#11 - 2014-11-18 10:27:05 UTC
An idea I saw for high sec war decs was to make the attackers anchor a war command facility at a high-sec POS, they put their CONCORD bribe in it and get a week of war. The cost of wars should be scaled somewhat to account for the extra isk needed to fuel a tower though.
It gives the defenders an objective, a proper way to win. Find the POS and take it down to end the war and steal the attackers CONCORD bribe. (I suppose the defenders should be able to get some anchor-able device that helps triangulate the enemy POS location over about a week. Region - constellation - system - planet - moon over 24h periods after it's onlined.)


If high-sec war decs are an excuse to force high-sec PvP without CONCORD interference then it seems like a good idea, it gives the defenders a reason to log in and fight and it gives them a reason to come to the aggressors while still enabling all those mining barge, freighter & mission runner kills.


Mutual wars shouldn't require Command facilities.


Lugh Crow-Slave
#12 - 2014-11-18 10:34:40 UTC
Helios Panala wrote:
An idea I saw for high sec war decs was to make the attackers anchor a war command facility at a high-sec POS ...


I like this idea and with the new polarized weapons even a small groups can grind down a large POS in HS
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-11-18 10:41:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Arronicus
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Helios Panala wrote:
An idea I saw for high sec war decs was to make the attackers anchor a war command facility at a high-sec POS ...


I like this idea and with the new polarized weapons even a small groups can grind down a large POS in HS


If the wardeccing corp, like marmite, did it at a deathstar and kept gunner alts there, even with the terrible state of pos guns, that would very quickly be a bunch of polarized weapons in wrecks for them to scoop.

Making the structure be anchored at a pos gives a HUGE advantage for the war corp, as not only does it force the defender to fight them, but it forces the defender to fight a massive uphill battle against a structure that can field 5-6k dps, or a ton of ecm.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#14 - 2014-11-18 10:43:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
there are people who dont want to pew pew in high sec and there are people who want.
I dont see any reason why CCP should skew the balance towards one specific group of people right now, nor are any provided in this thread. If you want pew pew so badly, you are wrong in high sec anyways, you know there is lowsec, 0.0 and WH space. Oh wait, lemme guess, people there shoot back, right?? Oh I understand. You want to target specific groups of people, easy prey and have your asses covered from the rest by daddy concord. Nope.
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#15 - 2014-11-18 11:16:39 UTC
Base wardec should be 1bil, modified by NPC standings, and the decced party should have the opportunity to counterbribe CONCORD.

Helios Panala
#16 - 2014-11-18 12:42:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Helios Panala
Arronicus wrote:
Making the structure be anchored at a pos gives a HUGE advantage for the war corp, as not only does it force the defender to fight them, but it forces the defender to fight a massive uphill battle against a structure that can field 5-6k dps, or a ton of ecm.


It does provide an advantage. But it also makes wars more expensive to declare, the defender can recruit allies, and mercenaries can show verifiable command center kills. The attackers may also come to your POS in an effort to stop your attempts to find out where they are.
Basically a reason for actually fighting rather than the camping trade hubs and logging off that most HS wars seem to consist of.


If that's still not enough I guess the defenders triangulation device could be allowed to stuff the attackers command facility with counter bribes once it has fully narrowed down the POS location. Say double/triple the wardec cost, half to CONCORD half to the attacker with a war duration x2 cooldown timer for the peace afterwards.
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2014-11-18 13:24:10 UTC
Gawain Edmond wrote:
or all the people who were in the corp who would have been war dec'ed should have the whole week of being war dec'ed that was paid for :D

/sign
Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#18 - 2014-11-18 13:31:26 UTC
the thing is if you leave a corp that is at war you are still a valid target for;
a) 1 week
b) untill the war dec ends
whichever is soonest. You also can't join a new corp during that time period so extending that rule to a war dec that is due to start isn't unreasonable.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-11-18 13:36:47 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
To add to this, if the corp involved folds before the fighting period begins, the wardec fee should be refunded.


Make it "untill 1st downtime when the war started" so the war has to actually start or people will fold after 24 hours and 1 minutes.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#20 - 2014-11-18 14:52:29 UTC
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