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[Autocannons] A Balance Suggestion
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Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#141 - 2014-11-16 13:28:41 UTC
Bump coz my vagabond is rusty.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#142 - 2014-11-16 14:29:16 UTC
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
Bump coz my vagabond is rusty.


And it ain't just the paintjob, amirite?

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#143 - 2014-11-16 15:45:31 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
Bump coz my vagabond is rusty.


And it ain't just the paintjob, amirite?


vagas look awesome .. but in its current role its not worth using .. a cyna or Nomen are better choices ,
they need to ramp up its brawling aspect in exchange for some speed.. a mini sleipnir in effect..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#144 - 2014-11-16 16:25:14 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
Bump coz my vagabond is rusty.


And it ain't just the paintjob, amirite?



Did tried my vaga recently, couldnt stay on the grid because of a RLML cerberus which was applying is full dps at 60 while i had to stick at 20 to apply 400 dps and be at very close range from all of their inty / recons but well np np np, WE DONT NEED A FIX (sarcasm).
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#145 - 2014-11-16 17:17:22 UTC
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
Bump coz my vagabond is rusty.


And it ain't just the paintjob, amirite?



Did tried my vaga recently, couldnt stay on the grid because of a RLML cerberus which was applying is full dps at 60 while i had to stick at 20 to apply 400 dps and be at very close range from all of their inty / recons but well np np np, WE DONT NEED A FIX (sarcasm).


well at 20 you would be doing about 200 .. RLML's are OP .. well perhaps more the light missiles themselves..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#146 - 2014-11-16 17:43:25 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
Bump coz my vagabond is rusty.


And it ain't just the paintjob, amirite?



Did tried my vaga recently, couldnt stay on the grid because of a RLML cerberus which was applying is full dps at 60 while i had to stick at 20 to apply 400 dps and be at very close range from all of their inty / recons but well np np np, WE DONT NEED A FIX (sarcasm).


well at 20 you would be doing about 200 .. RLML's are OP .. well perhaps more the light missiles themselves..


I don't think RLMLs are OP, and if they are, not nearly as bad as the Gallente drone lineup is.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#147 - 2014-11-16 18:09:15 UTC
Honestly, after skimming the thread I think the main complaint is that people keep trying to use autocannons(specifically) like blasters or lasers. A basic solution is to kite blasters and get into nose bleed range with lasers. Something that autocannons out perform their competition respectively very well. Which is to say that range control is the primary concern of a Minmatar hull, and, considering that they have innate and bonused advantages to speed and sometimes agility, this should make them exceedingly good at that role.

So yeah, -1.

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M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#148 - 2014-11-16 19:11:22 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
Bump coz my vagabond is rusty.


And it ain't just the paintjob, amirite?


vagas look awesome .. but in its current role its not worth using .. a cyna or Nomen are better choices ,
they need to ramp up its brawling aspect in exchange for some speed.. a mini sleipnir in effect..


A mini-sleip would be interesting. I'd certainly trade a fair bit of speed to have a strong minmatar brawler. It would need some more powergrid and shield HP though.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#149 - 2014-11-16 19:32:41 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
Bump coz my vagabond is rusty.


And it ain't just the paintjob, amirite?


vagas look awesome .. but in its current role its not worth using .. a cyna or Nomen are better choices ,
they need to ramp up its brawling aspect in exchange for some speed.. a mini sleipnir in effect..


A mini-sleip would be interesting. I'd certainly trade a fair bit of speed to have a strong minmatar brawler. It would need some more powergrid and shield HP though.


yes, about 2300 shield HP, 5th mid , lose a high/turret .. and get stronger damage bonuses in return

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#150 - 2014-11-16 20:42:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Phaade
Kaerakh wrote:
Honestly, after skimming the thread I think the main complaint is that people keep trying to use autocannons(specifically) like blasters or lasers. A basic solution is to kite blasters and get into nose bleed range with lasers. Something that autocannons out perform their competition respectively very well. Which is to say that range control is the primary concern of a Minmatar hull, and, considering that they have innate and bonused advantages to speed and sometimes agility, this should make them exceedingly good at that role.

So yeah, -1.


Couldn't be more wrong.

Please explain to me how projectiles are on par with drones.

A Vagabond will literally never break the tank of a solo fit HAC, and if it can, it's out damaged hugely.
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#151 - 2014-11-16 20:47:21 UTC
Quote:
Honestly, after skimming the thread I think the main complaint is that people keep trying to use autocannons(specifically) like blasters or lasers. A basic solution is to kite blasters and get into nose bleed range with lasers. Something that autocannons out perform their competition respectively very well.


My god. Why did nobody think of that? Oh, wait, they did. It turns out that doesn't actually work all that well unless the Minmatar also get super ships that are fast enough to kite and tough enough to brawl with the same fit. Not many ships can do that, and the ones that arguably can are all frigates.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#152 - 2014-11-16 20:49:27 UTC
Phaade wrote:
Kaerakh wrote:
Honestly, after skimming the thread I think the main complaint is that people keep trying to use autocannons(specifically) like blasters or lasers. A basic solution is to kite blasters and get into nose bleed range with lasers. Something that autocannons out perform their competition respectively very well. Which is to say that range control is the primary concern of a Minmatar hull, and, considering that they have innate and bonused advantages to speed and sometimes agility, this should make them exceedingly good at that role.

So yeah, -1.


Couldn't be more wrong.

Please explain to me how projectiles are on par with drones.

A Vagabond will literally never break the tank of a solo fit HAC, and if it can, it's out damaged hugely.


Pop his drones while kiting them?
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#153 - 2014-11-16 22:17:50 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Phaade wrote:
Kaerakh wrote:
Honestly, after skimming the thread I think the main complaint is that people keep trying to use autocannons(specifically) like blasters or lasers. A basic solution is to kite blasters and get into nose bleed range with lasers. Something that autocannons out perform their competition respectively very well. Which is to say that range control is the primary concern of a Minmatar hull, and, considering that they have innate and bonused advantages to speed and sometimes agility, this should make them exceedingly good at that role.

So yeah, -1.


Couldn't be more wrong.

Please explain to me how projectiles are on par with drones.

A Vagabond will literally never break the tank of a solo fit HAC, and if it can, it's out damaged hugely.


Pop his drones while kiting them?


Plus, drones don't automatically make my point wrong. That's a drones vs turret issue which is off topic by the way. Blink

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Guaranteed Success
Arla Sarain
#154 - 2014-11-16 22:58:49 UTC
Falloff Atron and a Falloff Rifter have about the same DPS at about 9kms.

Rifter is about 40% into his falloff.
Atron is about 80% into his falloff.
Scorch lasers of pretty much all types deal full damage.

That's dumb.

M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#155 - 2014-11-17 00:24:01 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Phaade wrote:
Kaerakh wrote:
Honestly, after skimming the thread I think the main complaint is that people keep trying to use autocannons(specifically) like blasters or lasers. A basic solution is to kite blasters and get into nose bleed range with lasers. Something that autocannons out perform their competition respectively very well. Which is to say that range control is the primary concern of a Minmatar hull, and, considering that they have innate and bonused advantages to speed and sometimes agility, this should make them exceedingly good at that role.

So yeah, -1.


Couldn't be more wrong.

Please explain to me how projectiles are on par with drones.

A Vagabond will literally never break the tank of a solo fit HAC, and if it can, it's out damaged hugely.


Pop his drones while kiting them?


Who flies a drone ship with anything other than sentries?

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#156 - 2014-11-17 19:39:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Daide Vondrichnov
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Phaade wrote:
Kaerakh wrote:
Honestly, after skimming the thread I think the main complaint is that people keep trying to use autocannons(specifically) like blasters or lasers. A basic solution is to kite blasters and get into nose bleed range with lasers. Something that autocannons out perform their competition respectively very well. Which is to say that range control is the primary concern of a Minmatar hull, and, considering that they have innate and bonused advantages to speed and sometimes agility, this should make them exceedingly good at that role.

So yeah, -1.


Couldn't be more wrong.

Please explain to me how projectiles are on par with drones.

A Vagabond will literally never break the tank of a solo fit HAC, and if it can, it's out damaged hugely.


Pop his drones while kiting them?


Who flies a drone ship with anything other than sentries?


Gila / VNI and more and more ishtar.

The fact is minmatar based ships need way more "skill", to be viable, apply your dps, get a point range, stay out of web/scram range but now there is too many hard counter which will wreck you.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#157 - 2014-11-17 22:36:24 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
...Scorch lasers of pretty much all types deal full damage.


...if they manage to hit something...

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#158 - 2014-11-17 23:04:35 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:


Who flies a drone ship with anything other than sentries?


So get in close and mess up their tracking.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#159 - 2014-11-17 23:30:51 UTC
Kaerakh wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Phaade wrote:
Kaerakh wrote:
Honestly, after skimming the thread I think the main complaint is that people keep trying to use autocannons(specifically) like blasters or lasers. A basic solution is to kite blasters and get into nose bleed range with lasers. Something that autocannons out perform their competition respectively very well. Which is to say that range control is the primary concern of a Minmatar hull, and, considering that they have innate and bonused advantages to speed and sometimes agility, this should make them exceedingly good at that role.

So yeah, -1.


Couldn't be more wrong.

Please explain to me how projectiles are on par with drones.

A Vagabond will literally never break the tank of a solo fit HAC, and if it can, it's out damaged hugely.


Pop his drones while kiting them?


Plus, drones don't automatically make my point wrong. That's a drones vs turret issue which is off topic by the way. Blink



Not really, but okay, a Nomen is better at being a Vagabond than a Vagabond courtesy of scorch.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#160 - 2014-11-18 01:24:03 UTC
I think it's important to note that you can't compare the just turrets with another turret system. You need to compare the turret AND the ship that it will be on.