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So who will be moving to THERA? (Jita without Concord)

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Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#181 - 2014-11-17 17:47:07 UTC
Saisin wrote:
I really like the reference Fozzie made about Sigil, the Dungeons & Dragons planescape city connected to all other realms and dimensions...

There is great potential, I am just concerned that four stations only may be too easy to shut down by the largest groups...

That depends on the stations. What if they themselves were huge, and had multiple undocking points; you couldn't cloak up beside them with out being 10's of kilometers from the undock.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Ardevealca Capella
Doomheim
#182 - 2014-11-17 17:51:58 UTC
Will there be asteroid belts full of mercoxit ore?
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#183 - 2014-11-17 18:57:55 UTC
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Saisin wrote:
I really like the reference Fozzie made about Sigil, the Dungeons & Dragons planescape city connected to all other realms and dimensions...

There is great potential, I am just concerned that four stations only may be too easy to shut down by the largest groups...

That depends on the stations. What if they themselves were huge, and had multiple undocking points; you couldn't cloak up beside them with out being 10's of kilometers from the undock.


Or what if they had station guns that worked like CONCORD?

Thera will be really cool on release, but solutions to the station problem will need to be implemented with further releases. I guarantee it.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#184 - 2014-11-17 20:11:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Snagletooth Johnson wrote:
Bwhahahah. A merchant going to Thera will be like driving a beer truck through Detroit...at night...with the doors open...with Ice Cream truck music playing...while stuck in second gear...



...I could go on, but I think you all get the point.




:-D I LOLed!


I would also add: with Bud Girls hanging off the back.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#185 - 2014-11-17 22:54:33 UTC
Telegram Sam wrote:
Late in discussion, but OP's posted video was excellent, I thought. Well reasoned, fact-checked, background researched, precision edited, and voice-presented like a Morgan Freeman. Total pro. Do you get paid for this kind of stuff in RL?

Will check your 'Youtube channel again.

Thanks for that!. I just need to get off my lazy butt and get on the test server.

Too much time editing, not enough time playing. Ugh

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#186 - 2014-11-17 23:29:05 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:




And this means that nobody will be hunting the hunters because you don't maximize your ISK doing that.






Hey Herzog, Hope you are well.

I've been watching the topic of Thera as this is something I am very interested in.

I think that the introduction of Thera will prompt the rise of the security corps/alliances who for a fee will attempt to keep people safe within Thera. If this is Truly going to be a Jita without concord then all of the stations will be perma camped.

I think something like Hub Zero could work here because working in a team has lots of advantages. If Hub Zero has taught me anything it's the fact that there are some cool guys out there who like to help people. There are lots of people who would enjoy helping others get to Thera for example scout a wormhole entrance for them to see if its camped. Intel sharing among a trusted group could be valuable to those involved.

My future actions may involve starting a corp that specializes in security for Thera, I may also create an alliance for small corps and solo players who want a better chance at survival within Thera. I would want to aim it at helping the little guy.








Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Leannor
State War Academy
Caldari State
#187 - 2014-11-18 09:44:27 UTC
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Saisin wrote:
I really like the reference Fozzie made about Sigil, the Dungeons & Dragons planescape city connected to all other realms and dimensions...

There is great potential, I am just concerned that four stations only may be too easy to shut down by the largest groups...

That depends on the stations. What if they themselves were huge, and had multiple undocking points; you couldn't cloak up beside them with out being 10's of kilometers from the undock.


you seriosuly think people would need to cloak? lol This wouldn't be covert campage, this would be blob gankage. There's going to be no subtly about the camping of these four stations.

"Lykouleon wrote:

STOP TOUCHING ICONIC SHIP PARTS"
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#188 - 2014-11-18 09:53:03 UTC
Two stations 350km apart -> place a hictors in undocks -> place a snipe fleet in middle -> go to town. RollPirate
Leannor
State War Academy
Caldari State
#189 - 2014-11-18 09:59:43 UTC
Baneken wrote:
Two stations 350km apart -> place a hictors in undocks -> place a snipe fleet in middle -> go to town. RollPirate


weren't they 350 AU apart? ... that would be some damn long snipage! Twisted

"Lykouleon wrote:

STOP TOUCHING ICONIC SHIP PARTS"
ggodhsup
relocation LLC.
#190 - 2014-11-18 10:09:01 UTC
im excited about this place....im also really curious about how they intend to keep the stations form being camped till down time everyday.

aught to be fun either way.Pirate
Square PI
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#191 - 2014-11-18 12:31:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Square PI
Every time CCP tried to "control" the player trade hubs it failed.

Does everyone remember Yulai?


The player decide where they want to do the trades. And if the new system is worth it, it might happen that the trades move over to it.
But i really doubt it.


Ranger 1 wrote:
Ka'Narlist wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
if indeed a Jita without Concord can be controlled by one entity?

Jita means a major trade hub where everyone and their mother brings their stuff to sell it.
How do you think this will happen in a system where everyone is ganking everyone?

A couple of reasons:

1: Apparently due to sheer incredible size, and quite possibly new system mechanics, it will be difficult if not impossible to lock the system down. Too huge, too many ways in and out.

2: It's connected to... literally... everywhere. Depending on how this is handled it could be the most convenient market hub in all of New Eden.

Good joke. We will talk again in lets say 6 month. And you can bring up your thoughts again.
Even Jita, with 1.0 and Concord, is not safe against ganks. What do you think will happen in a system without Concord? It does not matter how big the system it. Player find a way to abuse and use any system.
Leannor
State War Academy
Caldari State
#192 - 2014-11-18 13:21:12 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
A couple of reasons:

1: Apparently due to sheer incredible size, and quite possibly new system mechanics, it will be difficult if not impossible to lock the system down. Too huge, too many ways in and out.

2: It's connected to... literally... everywhere. Depending on how this is handled it could be the most convenient market hub in all of New Eden.



yup, difficutl and impossible to lock down four points? Four stations is four points. And unless stations are gunna be several AU wide, no matter how big they are a gang will be able to run around it easy as pie. One gang on each gate. You just have to look at the perma 'camp' outside several HI-sec places right now - 0.0 alliances can easily replicate that if they choose to base out of a system for strategic control.

And don't forget, strategic control is not always about aquisition of something for using it. It can quite often be aquisiation so that your opponent can't use it.

So, saying a system is big ... is irrelevant to saying it can't be locked down. Make 20 stations, or 30 ... 'then' you might be getting close to a massive headache to lock it down for even the larger alliances. But even then, it's not 'impossible'.

You don't need a massive number of ships to prevent trade. The threat alone is enough to stifle it significantly.

"Lykouleon wrote:

STOP TOUCHING ICONIC SHIP PARTS"
Ralen Zateki
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#193 - 2014-11-18 16:40:50 UTC
[quote1: Apparently due to sheer incredible size, and quite possibly new system mechanics, it will be difficult if not impossible to lock the system down. Too huge, too many ways in and out.[/quote]

Yup. Just like Titans were too big and too resource intensive for anyone to... uh... oopsy... nevermind.

Ya I'll check it out just 'cuz every now and then I like to visit the zoo. And I love the driving through Detroit analogy...
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#194 - 2014-11-18 18:03:59 UTC
Leannor wrote:
Baneken wrote:
Two stations 350km apart -> place a hictors in undocks -> place a snipe fleet in middle -> go to town. RollPirate


weren't they 350 AU apart? ... that would be some damn long snipage! Twisted


There are 4 stations in total of which 2 are 350AU and 2 are only 350km a part i.e. practically on same grid.Pirate
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#195 - 2014-11-18 19:11:19 UTC
Baneken wrote:
Leannor wrote:
Baneken wrote:
Two stations 350km apart -> place a hictors in undocks -> place a snipe fleet in middle -> go to town. RollPirate


weren't they 350 AU apart? ... that would be some damn long snipage! Twisted


There are 4 stations in total of which 2 are 350AU and 2 are only 350km a part i.e. practically on same grid.Pirate

They are on the same grid, that's where everyone is brawling on sisiLol

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#196 - 2014-11-18 19:16:25 UTC
One block of compressed veldspar is 417 m³. These should be a mandatory item to put into the cargo for anyone jumping into Thera from k-space. Only way to get anything close to industry going there.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Bed Bugg
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#197 - 2014-11-18 23:01:54 UTC
If the system can be locked down... It will be.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#198 - 2014-11-19 01:14:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Leannor wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
A couple of reasons:

1: Apparently due to sheer incredible size, and quite possibly new system mechanics, it will be difficult if not impossible to lock the system down. Too huge, too many ways in and out.

2: It's connected to... literally... everywhere. Depending on how this is handled it could be the most convenient market hub in all of New Eden.



yup, difficutl and impossible to lock down four points? Four stations is four points. And unless stations are gunna be several AU wide, no matter how big they are a gang will be able to run around it easy as pie. One gang on each gate. You just have to look at the perma 'camp' outside several HI-sec places right now - 0.0 alliances can easily replicate that if they choose to base out of a system for strategic control.

And don't forget, strategic control is not always about aquisition of something for using it. It can quite often be aquisiation so that your opponent can't use it.

So, saying a system is big ... is irrelevant to saying it can't be locked down. Make 20 stations, or 30 ... 'then' you might be getting close to a massive headache to lock it down for even the larger alliances. But even then, it's not 'impossible'.

You don't need a massive number of ships to prevent trade. The threat alone is enough to stifle it significantly.


Hello leannor, one point that you and the poster above you should remember is that the statement you have quoted was made well before it was revealed that there would be only 4 NPC stations in Thera. Smile

That being said, it will still be next to impossible to for a single organization to effectively lock down the "system"... but unless there is more to be revealed it will be fairly easy to lock down the "stations".

So yes, unfortunately a relatively small force can cause most of the commercial features of Thera to go unused as it stands now... but even a very large entity is unlikely to prevent large amounts of traffic from using Thera's other advantage as a major hub for travel and PVP activity. Much still depends though on just how many high sec statics there are, where those statics go, and how many (and how frequently) wandering wormholes open up there.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#199 - 2014-11-19 03:46:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron
Lets face it, it will be easy to do a covert camp on the wormhole entrances that lead to more populated K-space. We all think in similar ways and Freighters will obviously gain access to Thera via hi sec entrances because it will be less risk going via null or 0.0. I very much doubt the solo guy with a freighter will ever risk bringing it in. I think K-space alliances and wormhole corps will lead the way in stocking markets because they have the manpower to provide heavy escorts and they already do similar operations on a daily.

We also have to consider that if the sleeper sites are going to be level 3/4 and if there are more of them that respawn faster then people may adapt and not even bother using the stations.

I think this is about coin. Whoever controls Thera can sell blue status for a large fee and use the coin to equip their men ensure stations are not camped. There are ways to stop a station being camped if you can get a good set of guys together.

I feel as if this is my calling, The defence of a single system is right up my street and it is something I am keen to do again.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
James Rapture
Dead Star Syndicate
#200 - 2014-11-19 16:02:48 UTC
I think there is a reason why CCP wants Thera to be a hub. This system will be the staging point when player created stargates come around. Why so much room in the system? To prevent it from being locked down? Maybe. Probably. But I think it also to have plenty of room around for groups to setup shop for mini mobile bases and/or stargate building projects. As someone mentioned before, you can live in a WH out of POS. The idea of a Sigil type of city is closer than we think. A system with doors to everywhere known, to lead to anywhere unknown...