EVE General Discussion

This SP greed is paid for by the monthly subscription, or the price of PLEX. The problem is that the mechanic made you pay for it twice, 3x, 4x, and so on, like double taxation.





All I see this change doing is equalizing the Character Bazaar price for a "realistically trained" pilot, who may have all sorts of inefficient skill choices vs. a "formula trained" who is designed to take advantage of every last SP.


Even as someone who *studied* EVE Online skills for a week before I even started a trial account, and as someone who meticulously tracks every skill level in EVEMon, I don't actually mind this sort of minmaxing is gone in the *long term*.


In the short term it absolutely is important which skills you prioritize. None of us are getting any younger, and the immediate playability of SP choices does not change in that regard.






I disagree. When I started EVE, I had decided I would specialize in two or three types of ships and learn to fly them extremely well. When I lived out in null, corporation doctrine fits would frustratingly change *all* the time. Instead of two or three ships, now I am investing in 8-10, and then 10-14 and so on. These choices I make shouldn't penalize me for the rest of the game for eternity.

People are going to worry about what they can do, instead of choices they made which result in things they can't do. Things we can't do no longer penalize us. This is a good thing. It encourages people to try things out, instead of being cautious about every single SP they invest.

So use an alt slot. Isn't that what you people do?



That's a fallacy based on the assumption that the post was correct. If there's a flaw which damages specializing choices, then decisions are already taken away. Isn't that what everyone here is braying about? The lack of decision ability? Well, if you need to have a 25 mil SP clone, then I'd say you as a player already have no ability to make choice.

The high SP clones and the related cost aren't the cause, they're the symptom.

To be honest and I am quite the new player, but isn't having 25mill SP a choice as well, if you want to be a jack-of-all-trades, that's a choice.

Also having clones reworked, this way, it's easier for new players to come in, and try different things, and not be penalized as harsh. It makes way for people like me to enjoy the journey of learning that is Eve, instead of brutally be killed everytime, and stopping progression.

I think CCP has made a amazing choice to this, and thank the company for this amazing game.

I really, really like this CCP Darwin guy. ♥

ANd doesn't that tell you something about the null alliance you were a part of? Instead of letting you work to achieve a goal within the framework of your current SP, they made you get more SP. More SP = exponentially scaling ISK cost for lost clones, and null fights are all about lost clones. In essence, assuming these so-called doctrines mean choose shield frigs one day, armor frigs the next, and armor HACS another day, or some other variations, they're enforcing roles on you which bloat your SP and thus cause you, and therefore the alliance more cost in ISK when clones pop. Interestingly, this might be EXACTLY why a previous poster said null alliances were pushing so hard for this change and CCP was listening. Maybe we still haven't gotten away from the BoB/CCPdev fiasco.

All other things considered, if an alliance enforces such doctrine changes that don't make the best use of the training their alliance members have, and instead enforce doctrine changes which bloat SP, and therefore massively increase the ISK cost to said alliance, they're probably dumb strategists, and this is probably the reason for the blue donut. These alliances, in enforcing such doctrines, actually rapidly increased costs to themselves, sacrificing long term sustainability for a short term gain, and thereby making it too expensive to keep warring. That's on them.

The clone costs is not a problem, it's a symptom of player greed and shortsightedness.

also, OP, What... is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow. choose wisely

You can already do that. It's called keeping up to date clones, or just making an alt to Pee Vee Pee with. OR PRACTICING WITH CORP MATES. There's ways to get around this so-called problem. And if your ideal is to mass a hundred different fits and go to FW or lowsec and try them all, unless you're running low meta/T1 fits, I have a surprise for you when the ISK bill for the ships alone runs into 100 mil/1 bil. Compounded on this up front ISK cost with the fact that in lowsec or FW, you'll probably get eaten by station campers, T3 gankers, or blobs, and you'll take a fit out to "test it" and learn nothing.

I don't believe you actually understand the premise you're putting forward. the lack of ability to try multiple fits is not related to clone costs, presuming you have learned how to insta-warp the moment your ship goes into hull structure from being ganked, thus saving you the clone cost and time. All the other factors I mentioned make it that much harder to gather meaningful data with rinse/repeat methods using all your "concept" fits. Between all those issues or spending hours at a time actually finding noone "proper" for your fit to fight, these problems are far more of an issue for your slap-together-fit experimentation.

And remember, ships blowing up cost you 10-100x more isk than the clone cost. I understand you're new, which is why I can see the problems with your argument via clone costs prohibiting fit experimentation. It's really not a problem at all.

If you want to expirement with fits, create a corp with like-minded people to try different fits all day long in a quiet system vs each other, or try the RvB corp, or e-uni. That'll be far cheaper on your wallet and TIME than trying to fly in open FW or lowsec looking for just the right fight to give you meaningful feedback data.

Here's the list of things required to learn if a fit is good or bad:
Modules. Usually the higher meta, the more meaningful the feedback. T1 modules and getting blown to hell in FW isn't going to tell you as much.
Rigs. Same here, forgoing rigs isn't going to give you as meaningful data. A single rig of any kind is also going to be 3-15x more expensive than the cost of even a 6 million SP clone. So you're taking ISK hits here, too.
Skills. The better your skills are, the more meaningful the fight feedback is. You need to spend time to get skills, no other way around it. In this same time you'll grind up a TON of isk, more than enough to cover a few hundred thousand podkills, assuming you don't ever figure out how to insta-warp away from death.
A reasonable "counter" ship. This is the ship you want to counter. Whether in isolation as a 1v1, or going against equal sized gangs in a 5v5+ or whatever. You not only have to control for the type of fight due to numbers of ships, but also control for instances where someone is running Full snake or halo implants in a T1-T2 frig at 1 billion ISK for said implants, if you're getting that 1v1, and also if there's any BOOSTERS for that pilot in system. You won;'t get meaningful data here, either, unless the stars align and they're the same SP level, game mechanics skill level, implants level, and booster/nobooster level as you as well. And THEN you still have to figure out if there's any way to skillfully compensate for any losses vs that ship you designed your own ship to counter, or if it's just a bad design.

That's the SHORT and incomplete list. Clone costs rate very low, especially for a pilot with low SP.



Troll question. There's no need to adapt to suddenly not paying for clones. I have to presume you're delusional even asking such a question.

What the hell is SP greed?

A concept made up by an idiot who has had all of their weak arguments eviscerated over and over in this thread. :D

Nope, the question was real. But thanks for the troll answer, Mrs. Delusional.