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Relic and data can id tags please!
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Discomanco
We pooped on your lawn
#21 - 2014-11-14 22:53:05 UTC
Gawain Edmond wrote:
or just make the site despawn once the person warps out after trying to hack the site

Well, currently they despawn 1 hour after the first container has been hacked but I wont mind seeing that timer being lowerd to say, 15-30mins of first container hacked and nobody in it
Iain Cariaba
#22 - 2014-11-14 22:59:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Iain Cariaba
Removed, was pretty much duplicate of above post.
Jur Grady
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-11-14 23:34:53 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Hopelesshobo wrote:
Jur Grady wrote:
Adding Rats into R&D sites will also not solve the problem you seem to have missed the point completely.


Agreed, this would make even more mandatory to use a T3 as your hacker instead of the cov ops frigs.

Not necessarily. It would mostly depend on what kind and how many rats they put in the site. The T1 exploration frigates are quite capable of killing off some rats.



As was stated in an earlier post any T1 exploration frig that can kill rats means that those rats are worthless the Astero for example one of the dedicated exploration frigs has 2 Highs 4 Mids and 3 lows fi you are using it for R&D sites you need a cloak and a probe launcher so there go your highs. The mids should be a prop mod (AB/MWD), cargo scanner, Relic analyzer, and data analyzer. Lows should be (minimum) one warp core stab and a cargo expander(optional) Drone Damage amp(if possible) so your lows are kinda* open to whim but the amount of dps or tank that you can add to these ships is negligible so rats of null sec size make these or any other exploration frigs worthless in null sec.
Jur Grady
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-11-14 23:41:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jur Grady
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:
I'd rather they made all cans in a site worthy of opening Roll
As callous as it may sound, I won't slowboat 65km to fail a hack on a can containing some scrap metal, especially not in a wormhole, now that there are k-space relics in there.


How do you want to achieve this? If you add Power Circuits or Intact Armor Plates to every can, they are quickly going to become worthless. If you add faction tower BPC to every can, they are quickly going to become worthless. And even if you add Intact Armor Plates to every can and even if they for a miraculous reason did not become worthless, there is always the can with 20 units of them and a can with 1 unit. Guess which can would not be opened.

I also rather like the way it is now. In our space (something an alliance uses extremely frequently and where most people of an alliance live), members are required asked to complete these sites. However, outside these constellations I very much like to leave unfinished sites around as a way of griefing other Null sec or Low sec residents and to deny them money making potential. A thing they very well can also pull off in someone else's constellation. That said, to know who in your alliance does this to their own members is something I would very much like to know. This ID, however, must not be visible to or accessible by players outside the hacker's corp or alliance.


Why should it not be visible to all others? As i said in a previous post it could provide limited intelligence for people living in the area just like people who rat in null sec who don't live there you check out the wrecks on field in belts or gates and you can see who killed them. (some people who are experienced in being a nullsec ninja clean up after themselves) In my opinion if this change were to be made they should 1) Add the capsuleers info to the hacked cans 2) Cut the despawn timer from 1 hour to 30 minutes from the time the first can is hacked to the time it despawns.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2014-11-14 23:49:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
My standard Astero fit had 120 DPS offensive and 93 DPS tank, pirate ships are exceptions to the rule af generally have special features that make them superior to other ships doing a similar task.

A 30s Magnate fit fetched 100 DPS and 50 DPS tank. They are capable of taking out some rats if fit for it.

Edit: I should state that I don't think any k-space data or relic site should be harder than a Den Cosmic anomaly if rats are added back to them.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Aivlis Eldelbar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-11-15 01:20:22 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:

How do you want to achieve this? If you add Power Circuits or Intact Armor Plates to every can, they are quickly going to become worthless. If you add faction tower BPC to every can, they are quickly going to become worthless. And even if you add Intact Armor Plates to every can and even if they for a miraculous reason did not become worthless, there is always the can with 20 units of them and a can with 1 unit. Guess which can would not be opened.


What if I told you... you could reduce the number of cans, or balance the value of the loot among them? You seem to assume loot must always be randomly placed around the site, or that I'm advocating for drop rates to be increased even more, further crashing the market, when I'm not.
Dark Drifter
Sons of Seyllin
Pirate Lords of War
#27 - 2014-11-15 02:45:54 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
I rather they just remove cargo scanning from the cans.



They should do this in addition to adding the tags for who hacked the cans.


so your add to this idear is to add upwards of 1million unique items to eve so that you can have a go at some dude rakeing your data/relic sites?
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#28 - 2014-11-15 08:35:33 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Rats back in sites means there will be fitting choices needing to be made. Not just stabs, a cargo scanner, analyzes and a cloak.

Ppl are lazy, instead of making choices they will be switching to astero. Not to mention covops would be trash (buzzard could be fitted with 1 rocket launcher, 2 PDS II in lows, only when you fit prop mod, without prop there are more options, but slowboating to 60km away can = fun). Instead of putting rats back to relics and data sites i would like to see ghost and mordu sites in proper combat/hacking mix style.
Discomanco wrote:
Well, currently they despawn 1 hour after the first container has been hacked but I wont mind seeing that timer being lowerd to say, 15-30mins of first container hacked and nobody in it

If this is true then no hope for us. 1 hour is a mechanism that protects us from being flooded by items from those sites, when we fail hack and despawn faster we simply putting more items into market veins. We are earning more in short term but we will devaluate our income eventually. Cherrypickers won.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#29 - 2014-11-15 09:19:45 UTC
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:

How do you want to achieve this? If you add Power Circuits or Intact Armor Plates to every can, they are quickly going to become worthless. If you add faction tower BPC to every can, they are quickly going to become worthless. And even if you add Intact Armor Plates to every can and even if they for a miraculous reason did not become worthless, there is always the can with 20 units of them and a can with 1 unit. Guess which can would not be opened.


What if I told you... you could reduce the number of cans, or balance the value of the loot among them? You seem to assume loot must always be randomly placed around the site, or that I'm advocating for drop rates to be increased even more, further crashing the market, when I'm not.


It's CCP we are talking about. I have been conditioned by them to assume that. If it was for me, we could remove all the cans in the sites except for 1 and then have the hacking game be about finding stashes of loot on the grid, not in cans scattered around in space.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Jurico Elemenohpe
Flipsid3 Tactics
#30 - 2014-11-15 10:32:21 UTC
I like this.. +1
Jur Grady
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-11-15 22:02:13 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:

How do you want to achieve this? If you add Power Circuits or Intact Armor Plates to every can, they are quickly going to become worthless. If you add faction tower BPC to every can, they are quickly going to become worthless. And even if you add Intact Armor Plates to every can and even if they for a miraculous reason did not become worthless, there is always the can with 20 units of them and a can with 1 unit. Guess which can would not be opened.


What if I told you... you could reduce the number of cans, or balance the value of the loot among them? You seem to assume loot must always be randomly placed around the site, or that I'm advocating for drop rates to be increased even more, further crashing the market, when I'm not.


It's CCP we are talking about. I have been conditioned by them to assume that. If it was for me, we could remove all the cans in the sites except for 1 and then have the hacking game be about finding stashes of loot on the grid, not in cans scattered around in space.


that would actually be really cool not even gunna lie
MrRottenTreats
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2014-11-16 12:29:45 UTC
I agree that would be a cool idea but would require that the whole system for hacking would have to be redone and as well as redesigning all the sites to go along with that ... dont get me wrong I like the idea I think its just a tad bit unlikely hence my proposed change to help promote finishing your site so another can spawn that and a lot of the time I end up doing more than one after I finish one another spawns (its only chance but still it does happen often)
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#33 - 2014-11-16 12:38:00 UTC
MrRottenTreats wrote:
I agree that would be a cool idea but would require that the whole system for hacking would have to be redone and as well as redesigning all the sites to go along with that ... dont get me wrong I like the idea I think its just a tad bit unlikely hence my proposed change to help promote finishing your site so another can spawn that and a lot of the time I end up doing more than one after I finish one another spawns (its only chance but still it does happen often)


Not completely unlikely, but unfortunately also not really close either.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-11-16 16:36:24 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Rats back in sites means there will be fitting choices needing to be made. Not just stabs, a cargo scanner, analyzes and a cloak.

Ppl are lazy, instead of making choices they will be switching to astero. Not to mention covops would be trash (buzzard could be fitted with 1 rocket launcher, 2 PDS II in lows, only when you fit prop mod, without prop there are more options, but slowboating to 60km away can = fun).

CCP Rise wrote:

Cov ops aren't built around a hacking role. They are meant more as probers and intel gatherers rather than hacking ships.

Catering to the lazy players is quite largely why exploration loot values have tanked and continuing to cater to them will cause them to fall even further.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#35 - 2014-11-16 17:50:55 UTC
FLICK ME
Panda With Red Group
Fraternity.
#36 - 2014-11-18 18:33:28 UTC
I endorse this +9999999

<3
Jur Grady
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-11-19 17:05:01 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
no free intel


its not really free intel since you would have to scan out the sites and work at it and if you actually cleared the site they would get no free intel.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#38 - 2014-11-19 18:45:58 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Catering to the lazy players is quite largely why exploration loot values have tanked and continuing to cater to them will cause them to fall even further.

Ppl would shoot rats, in less hulls options that they have today, and cherrypick sites. They should have need better skills to scan it in first place. Exploration is just to easy, putting rats back won't solve this, it's a step back. Activity that can grant you very good income with low sills and cheap hulls so everybody doing it, so it will be falling more.

Quote:
CCP Rise wrote:

Cov ops aren't built around a hacking role. They are meant more as probers and intel gatherers rather than hacking ships.

Annnd that's why they give covops as much hacking strenght as T3 analyzers modules and SoE ships? Said one thing done antoher.

To OP idea, i like it, but it doesn't has sense with single man corp (i'm in one, and it's not NPC). What will you do? Camp one of my 10 hisec bases? With alliance pilot, what will you do? Invade them because they run sites on your teritory? Your fault you didn't defend it. It would be just intel, "J Saken been here, bastard hack all containers and left one ruin with carbon inside. He may be next gate or other side of cluster by now".

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
MrRottenTreats
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2014-11-20 03:40:26 UTC
Yes the idea is pointed more in the direction for larger corps and alliances but it also benefits the small single man who runs around in alliance owned space in null or even with other ppl in lowsec/wh's because if you finish the site there is a chance for another to spawn and i have had another relic/data spawn right after in the same system so even thew it does not directly help most solo runner in that way it does and would instead of leaving the cans that do not have much in them
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2014-11-20 04:11:12 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Catering to the lazy players is quite largely why exploration loot values have tanked and continuing to cater to them will cause them to fall even further.

Ppl would shoot rats, in less hulls options that they have today, and cherrypick sites. They should have need better skills to scan it in first place. Exploration is just to easy, putting rats back won't solve this, it's a step back. Activity that can grant you very good income with low sills and cheap hulls so everybody doing it, so it will be falling more.

Adding rats back alone will help some but i do agree that we need more exploration ships, namely T1 cruisers and a proper T2 frigate.
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

Cov ops aren't built around a hacking role. They are meant more as probers and intel gatherers rather than hacking ships.

Annnd that's why they give covops as much hacking strenght as T3 analyzers modules and SoE ships? Said one thing done antoher.
This is because the hacking mini-game was released in Oyssey and the SOE ships were released in Rubicon, during the SOE balance thread there was much duscission about the hacking bonus on the Astero and weather or not it overshadowed the CovertOps frigates, this is when CCP decided that Covert Ops frigates were scouts and scanning ships and not hacking ships, once the Covert Ops balance thread comes around i would expect that they might lose there hacking bonus.
Jeremiah Saken wrote:

To OP idea, i like it, but it doesn't has sense with single man corp (i'm in one, and it's not NPC). What will you do? Camp one of my 10 hisec bases? With alliance pilot, what will you do? Invade them because they run sites on your teritory? Your fault you didn't defend it. It would be just intel, "J Saken been here, bastard hack all containers and left one ruin with carbon inside. He may be next gate or other side of cluster by now".

I have to agree with this statement. The only thing the OP would do is cause more independent explorers to have higher bounties on them, but little else.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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