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Core probe scanning speed improvement.

Author
Athanor Ruthoern
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2014-11-16 08:49:27 UTC
Okay I think I can see where you are on different pages.

There is a difference from scanning down a system for PvP and a system for PvE. yes it quick to sweep a system for PVP you descan and it a ya or no. If it is a no you scan the system for wormholes and do not scan the rest of the signatures to 100%. But if your scanning your static with 20-30 signatures for pve you want to know if the gas site is an instrumental or a vast. You will scan down all the data banks and the Relics sites to 100% so you can run them. If you have good skill but not perfect you need your probes down to 0,5 to scan down the smallest sigs to 100%. When you scanned down your static you also need to jump into theconnecting wormholes and check for activity maybe make a quick scan sweep of the system and find the wormholes and jump in and check descan. Then you can go back to doing your pve if all is in order. This easely takes 30-45 min before you can start on doing pve.

I am sure all this workload before doing pve is discouragin people from running sites in wormholes. If shortening the scanning time increases the population of wormhole space I am all for it. It would also make my life a little easier.

OP is not asking for it to be removed but reducing it for the sake of PvE. But yes it will also make it faster to scan down the wormholes in the system but this does not make any imbalance in PvP as this is not for combat unless your in a hostile hole being combat scanned and need to scan your way out or something like that. Mostly it will just mean targets faster.

I for one do approve of the suggestion.
Sith1s Spectre
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2014-11-16 09:23:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Sith1s Spectre
Athanor Ruthoern wrote:
for the sake of PvE.


Even for PVE it doesn't take 30 minutes.

The sites not worth your time you can narrow down at like 4au and easily eliminate them.

Once you get down to the smaller sigs you know you have found the better PVE anoms...

Resident forum troll and fashion consultant

Athanor Ruthoern
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2014-11-16 09:56:28 UTC
Sith1s Spectre wrote:
Athanor Ruthoern wrote:
for the sake of PvE.


Even for PVE it doesn't take 30 minutes.

The sites not worth your time you can narrow down at like 4au and easily eliminate them.

Once you get down to the smaller sigs you know you have found the better PVE anoms...


Well I have to go down to 2 AU to get the low worth gas type. I do not have scannign implants and am using normal scanning ship and scanning skills are 5/4/4/4.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#24 - 2014-11-16 10:04:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Lloyd Roses
Jack Miton wrote:
Wait a sec.... Now that ive actually read over all the posts here, do you people actually use the preset probe formations?
I'd be seriously interested to know if you do because it's the only way I can see scanning taking 2-3 scan cycles per sig.


Drop CCP preset formation 8 AU on celestial, drop 2 AU probes on all the red dots, drop .5AU on everything that wasn't gas or a k162?

Like in 2 of 3 systems you just drop them at 8AU on the sun and you got half of the system's sigs as low-class gas sorted out already...
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#25 - 2014-11-16 10:32:34 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Ok Guys, we are clearly doing different things and have different requirements for knowledge of our chains, this is not about epeen please.

When we are chasing down chains for quick pew, our scanning speed is at it's fastest, we want to speed through to the next hole as fast as posssible, and we disregard all but that. Of course we can blitz through that.
However, after downtime, our scanners are preparing intel for those that follow, whilst pew if found is good, it is more important to know what is there for those that follow later, that takes time, we need to know the lot! Ideally 2/3 chains deep in full detail, routes after that, these days that is a craptonne of wormholes, we need to know every sig, every site, in those, so that later, when we see ships on dscan, we know where they are likely to be and we are not dropping probes and scaring them off!
There is no such thing as a worthless site, someone may be running it, someone may need C32 and be sat there in a Gnosis as bait, always take bait! , someone may need to be hunted!

Are we all on the same page now?

Now, whether we call it probes warping or scan delay, or the effects of BOB, after pressing the scan button there is a delay of 10-15 seconds after pressing each and every pass. Whilst it beeps and warbles.

All Skills to 5, implants, infinite experience, and an enormous E-peen, do not reduce that time in any significant manner.

The proposal is to reduce the artificial delay for core probes, after the scan button is pressed. As simple as that.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#26 - 2014-11-16 11:31:48 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:


Now, whether we call it probes warping or scan delay, or the effects of BOB, after pressing the scan button there is a delay of 10-15 seconds after pressing each and every pass. Whilst it beeps and warbles.


That delay is 4.5 seconds + the few seconds it takes for probes to warp.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#27 - 2014-11-16 11:33:59 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
King Fu Hostile wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:


Now, whether we call it probes warping or scan delay, or the effects of BOB, after pressing the scan button there is a delay of 10-15 seconds after pressing each and every pass. Whilst it beeps and warbles.


That delay is 4.5 seconds + the few seconds it takes for probes to warp.


Press the button and add them together, actually time it, with max skills, minimum 10 maximum 15 (will test thera today possibly more) that is the delay between each sweep.

Doesn't matter what you call them, how you split them, that is the actual time.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#28 - 2014-11-16 11:43:16 UTC
I timed it, and the scan cycle is exactly 4.5 seconds + few seconds it takes for probs to warp, average for 10 sweeps was 6.9 seconds.

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#29 - 2014-11-16 11:46:38 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
How on earth do you get 6.9 seconds? Astrometrics aquisition V mid slot scan aquisition array, covert ops, cannot get near that quick to report after pressing analyse?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-11-16 11:48:10 UTC
King Fu Hostile wrote:
I timed it, and the scan cycle is exactly 4.5 seconds + few seconds it takes for probs to warp, average for 10 sweeps was 6.9 seconds.

there are also mods to reduce it. did a quick check on my scanner and it's 4.05sec.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-11-16 11:51:40 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
How on earth do you get 6.9 seconds? Astrometrics aquisition V mid slot scan aquisition array, covert ops, cannot get near that quick to report after pressing analyse?

you know, there's this wonderful place where information is free and you dont need to scan stuff at all. it's called kspace.
in wspace information is not free and people are expected to put some semblance of effort into living there.
if you dont have the patience for it, ill happily scan you an exit to kspace in record time.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#32 - 2014-11-16 11:54:48 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
How on earth do you get 6.9 seconds? Astrometrics aquisition V mid slot scan aquisition array, covert ops, cannot get near that quick to report after pressing analyse?

you know, there's this wonderful place where information is free and you dont need to scan stuff at all. it's called kspace.
in wspace information is not free and people are expected to put some semblance of effort into living there.
if you dont have the patience for it, ill happily scan you an exit to kspace in record time.


I expected better from you, you have posted a lot of sense on these forums, pity you decided to change.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#33 - 2014-11-16 11:56:32 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
How on earth do you get 6.9 seconds? Astrometrics aquisition V mid slot scan aquisition array, covert ops, cannot get near that quick to report after pressing analyse?


Idk why you are so slow, all V's, Expanded Probe Launcher II, Scan Acquisition Array II.

Jack there's only one module to decrease that, and then implants.

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#34 - 2014-11-16 11:59:24 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
King Fu Hostile wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
How on earth do you get 6.9 seconds? Astrometrics aquisition V mid slot scan aquisition array, covert ops, cannot get near that quick to report after pressing analyse?


Idk why you are so slow, all V's, Expanded Probe Launcher II, Scan Acquisition Array II.

Jack there's only one module to decrease that, and then implants.



No, not me, none of us can get near that.
There must be something we are missing, the skills are there, the experience is there the ships are there, the fittings are there, just cannot get near those times.
Min 10 max 15 depending on skills and the distance the probes travel, cannot get under 10 even if right on top of the Sig with max everything.

Aquisition skill and the module, appear to only reduce the sweep part of the process, not the time the probes take to move, but both combine to an artificial delay no matter how you visualise it.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Athanor Ruthoern
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2014-11-16 12:23:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Athanor Ruthoern
I have o support the other guys here it takes about 6 seconds warping and scanning. Though a few seconds shorter would be fine with me.

What probes are you using ?
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#36 - 2014-11-16 12:29:14 UTC
Athanor Ruthoern wrote:
I have o support the other guys here it takes about 6 seconds warping and scanning. Though a few seconds shorter would be fine with me.


Just to ensure the descriptions are not confusing issues.

Assuming you have selected the area to scan a signature, positioned your probe instructions?
If you then Press the analyse button, it beeps and warbles, and the green bar goes across the screen, then the new location, and strength is displayed.

You can get that to six seconds?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Athanor Ruthoern
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2014-11-16 12:36:18 UTC
yes.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#38 - 2014-11-16 12:51:49 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Interesting, I tested on tq before posting the numbers, with a max skilled ( no implants ) character, and a 4x4x4x4 toon, and on sisi with a maxed up in every way toon.

I was using a helios for both,

Trying to work out where the differences are.
I'll get on sisi and try different scanning ships, there's got to be a reason for it. Are You using Sisters core probes too ?

Working on the maths, the base scan time can theoretically be brought down to under five seconds, ( some disagreement/confusion apparently as to how they stack) but the probes have a (warping) delay even when sat right on the sig. There also seems to be a delay before they even start, However it is calculated, however it is displayed, the time I get is at best in the order of ten seconds from pressing the analyse button to getting a return from the system. Could there be network effects?

All this is why I am trying to work with real world returns, rather than theoretical calculations. When someone reports their time to two figures of decimals, it is clearly theoretical figures being discussed not tested results. I just want to conform that your 6 seconds is actually experienced?

The original proposal still stands, the scanning delay is still an unneccesary mechanic with the increase in signatures that exist in all space now. Those delays, still add up whatever the numbers.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#39 - 2014-11-16 13:54:02 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Interesting, I tested on tq before posting the numbers, with a max skilled ( no implants ) character, and a 4x4x4x4 toon, and on sisi with a maxed up in every way toon.

I was using a helios for both,

Trying to work out where the differences are.
I'll get on sisi and try different scanning ships, there's got to be a reason for it. Are You using Sisters core probes too ?

Working on the maths, the base scan time can theoretically be brought down to under five seconds, ( some disagreement/confusion apparently as to how they stack) but the probes have a (warping) delay even when sat right on the sig. There also seems to be a delay before they even start, However it is calculated, however it is displayed, the time I get is at best in the order of ten seconds from pressing the analyse button to getting a return from the system. Could there be network effects?

All this is why I am trying to work with real world returns, rather than theoretical calculations. When someone reports their time to two figures of decimals, it is clearly theoretical figures being discussed not tested results. I just want to conform that your 6 seconds is actually experienced?

The original proposal still stands, the scanning delay is still an unneccesary mechanic with the increase in signatures that exist in all space now. Those delays, still add up whatever the numbers.


EFT claims that combat scanner probes have both faster warp speed (+7.5 AU) and shorter flight time (- 3 seconds), that may explain your issue. There is literally nothing that you can't probe in w-space with combat probes, so just roll with them ;)
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#40 - 2014-11-16 14:02:12 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Press the button and add them together, actually time it, with max skills, minimum 10 maximum 15 (will test thera today possibly more) that is the delay between each sweep.


You are aware that Thera is a little special in that you make 200AU warps to the next signature, besides the curently 60% of sigs hanging around the sun. Nearly all wormholes got significantly less than 50AU radius, so it really isn't the same.