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Save Our Clones Initiative.

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Kaaeliaa
Tyrannos Sunset
#121 - 2014-11-16 06:09:57 UTC
The shard of glass is a theoretical terrible game mechanic.

School of thought #1: Struggling against terrible game mechanics makes one "hardcore"

School of thought #2: Removing terrible game mechanics, regardless of how much the bittervets complain because of the Sunk Cost Fallacy and/or elitism, is a good thing

Most reasonable people will be in the second camp.

"Do not lift the veil. Do not show the door. Do not split the dream."
Kerono Thalmor
Band of Buggered
#122 - 2014-11-16 06:14:01 UTC
Kaaeliaa wrote:
The shard of glass is a theoretical terrible game mechanic.

School of thought #1: Struggling against terrible game mechanics makes one "hardcore"

School of thought #2: Removing terrible game mechanics, regardless of how much the bittervets complain because of the Sunk Cost Fallacy and/or elitism, is a good thing

Most reasonable people will be in the second camp.


Ah. That completely misses the point of what I'm saying. I don't care whether it makes one "hardcore". I'm saying that not having clone upgrades, or costs for clone upgrades, whichever is being suggested, could (and probably would be) abused terribly.

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Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#123 - 2014-11-16 06:14:37 UTC
Kerono Thalmor wrote:
... Okay, bacon is excellent, yes, I think we're all in agreement there but I still don't get what exactly you're trying to tell me... Forgive me if I'm a bit dense in that regard tonight, I've had a long day.

Please tell me you're kidding. The reasons for the change has been presented, regurgitated, and then beaten to death over the course of this and other threads.

Bacon makes us stronger
Kerono Thalmor
Band of Buggered
#124 - 2014-11-16 06:17:43 UTC
Carmen Electra wrote:
Kerono Thalmor wrote:
... Okay, bacon is excellent, yes, I think we're all in agreement there but I still don't get what exactly you're trying to tell me... Forgive me if I'm a bit dense in that regard tonight, I've had a long day.

Please tell me you're kidding. The reasons for the change has been presented, regurgitated, and then beaten to death over the course of this and other threads.


ya, im jus trollin.

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Kaaeliaa
Tyrannos Sunset
#125 - 2014-11-16 06:18:03 UTC
Kerono Thalmor wrote:
Kaaeliaa wrote:
The shard of glass is a theoretical terrible game mechanic.

School of thought #1: Struggling against terrible game mechanics makes one "hardcore"

School of thought #2: Removing terrible game mechanics, regardless of how much the bittervets complain because of the Sunk Cost Fallacy and/or elitism, is a good thing

Most reasonable people will be in the second camp.


Ah. That completely misses the point of what I'm saying. I don't care whether it makes one "hardcore". I'm saying that not having clone upgrades, or costs for clone upgrades, whichever is being suggested, could (and probably would be) abused terribly.


It misses the point of what you're saying because you're missing the actual point of the entire change.

There's no longer a game mechanic to "abuse" because it's terrible and being removed. End of story.

When CCP announces a replacement mechanic, you're more than welcome to provide useful feedback to proposed changes.

"Do not lift the veil. Do not show the door. Do not split the dream."
Kerono Thalmor
Band of Buggered
#126 - 2014-11-16 06:21:22 UTC
Kaaeliaa wrote:

... There's no longer a game mechanic to "abuse" because it's terrible and being removed. End of story....


Lack of a game mechanic can be abused.

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Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#127 - 2014-11-16 06:21:23 UTC
Kerono Thalmor wrote:
ya, im jus trollin.


Quote:
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.


Thread closed.



...


See how good I am at this? Vote ISD Carmen

Bacon makes us stronger
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#128 - 2014-11-16 07:33:23 UTC
So do I get a refund for all the damn clones I've bought over the past 2 years or so?

I WANTS MAH CLONE MONEYS

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Kaaeliaa
Tyrannos Sunset
#129 - 2014-11-16 07:35:53 UTC
Mike Adoulin wrote:
So do I get a refund for all the damn clones I've bought over the past 2 years or so?

I WANTS MAH CLONE MONEYS



No.

Next question.

"Do not lift the veil. Do not show the door. Do not split the dream."
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#130 - 2014-11-16 08:20:49 UTC
Kerono Thalmor wrote:
Kaaeliaa wrote:

... There's no longer a game mechanic to "abuse" because it's terrible and being removed. End of story....


Lack of a game mechanic can be abused.

The part you're talking about, the one where you set your med clone to a distant station, then self destruct yourself to travel there instantly--is going away with med clone grades. After Rhea you can only set your station to a corporation office once per year (that's where it was abused--you could set your med clone to any med facility where your corporation had an office). Your med clone travel option is once per year, or to your rookie system station.

So yeah, the exploitability is being removed. The only legitimate purpose for using up a lot of med clones is rapid PVP. iz good.

It is, however, still a case of goons getting their way because conspiracy and illumittani.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#131 - 2014-11-16 08:27:35 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:
Clones and clone costs have always been a part of Eve. They make sense in the scope of the game. They aren't a problem for anyone to pay off, ever. Anyone who can fly a T3 can pay off medical clones. Why would the empires simply hand out clones for free just cause of feels?

First it was the removal of needed standings for certain game mechanics, now it's clone costs. If we don't halt this now, it'll be learning implants gone next, and then standings will probably go away altogether. Why is the original vision of Eve being torn apart? It was fine for 10 years.

Let's not allow this Rhea patch to go through. Post here to save our clones.


To hell with updating clone costs. Im happy they are going away.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#132 - 2014-11-16 08:51:42 UTC  |  Edited by: La Rynx
HINT did someone consider the NEW --> T3 Destroyers?

Still not get it?
If you get destroyed in your T3 Cruiser . . .
YOU LOOSE SKILLPOINTS!

T3 Cruisers, T3 Destroyers...

Na? So?
someone gets a Idea ?

There will just be some other ways to loose Skillpoints FOR GOOD, to add more risk.

Pirate

CCP is doing well i think!

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#133 - 2014-11-16 09:12:32 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
HINT did someone consider the NEW --> T3 Destroyers?

Still not get it?
If you get destroyed in your T3 Cruiser . . .
YOU LOOSE SKILLPOINTS!

T3 Cruisers, T3 Destroyers...

Na? So?
someone gets a Idea ?

There will just be some other ways to loose Skillpoints FOR GOOD, to add more risk.

Pirate

CCP is doing well i think!

They have already said that the new T3 dessies won't cause skillpoint loss on destruction.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#134 - 2014-11-16 09:14:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
La Rynx wrote:
HINT did someone consider the NEW --> T3 Destroyers?

Still not get it?
If you get destroyed in your T3 Cruiser . . .
YOU LOOSE SKILLPOINTS!

T3 Cruisers, T3 Destroyers...

Na? So?
someone gets a Idea ?

There will just be some other ways to loose Skillpoints FOR GOOD, to add more risk.

Pirate

CCP is doing well i think!

Good yes, but I'll be happier when the benefits of a choice concerning your clone deals with far more than preventing mere skill point loss.

Yeah, keep in some mechanics where skill points can be lost (T3 cruisers). Literally nothing causes panties to bunch like losing skill points... but do it sparingly as it can also be legitimately frustrating to waste large amounts of time in that fashion.

But the tech to have a fresh body grown on demand has possibilities for the game far beyond anything we have seen... potential that has been largely ignored for over a decade.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#135 - 2014-11-16 09:23:43 UTC
Zappity wrote:
La Rynx wrote:
HINT did someone consider the NEW --> T3 Destroyers?

Still not get it?
If you get destroyed in your T3 Cruiser . . .
YOU LOOSE SKILLPOINTS!

T3 Cruisers, T3 Destroyers...

Na? So?
someone gets a Idea ?

There will just be some other ways to loose Skillpoints FOR GOOD, to add more risk.

Pirate

CCP is doing well i think!

They have already said that the new T3 dessies won't cause skillpoint loss on destruction.
This. You don't lose skillpoints on the new T3 Destroyers.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#136 - 2014-11-16 09:26:19 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Zappity wrote:
They have already said that the new T3 dessies won't cause skillpoint loss on destruction.
This. You don't lose skillpoints on the new T3 Destroyers.



OK, my bad!

Ugh

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#137 - 2014-11-16 09:28:11 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Zappity wrote:
La Rynx wrote:
HINT did someone consider the NEW --> T3 Destroyers?

Still not get it?
If you get destroyed in your T3 Cruiser . . .
YOU LOOSE SKILLPOINTS!

T3 Cruisers, T3 Destroyers...

Na? So?
someone gets a Idea ?

There will just be some other ways to loose Skillpoints FOR GOOD, to add more risk.

Pirate

CCP is doing well i think!

They have already said that the new T3 dessies won't cause skillpoint loss on destruction.
This. You don't lose skillpoints on the new T3 Destroyers.

Which I'm delighted about because I will no doubt lose dozens!

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Grey Stone
BRUTAL GENESIS
GaNg BaNg TeAm
#138 - 2014-11-16 11:05:08 UTC
This is the best change CCP made in recent years. Enough said.
Ila Dace
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2014-11-16 13:41:27 UTC
Another alternative, if the ISK sink really is important to wars, is specialized pods.

Go with your standard no-bonus pod, or this spendy pod that let's you fit two more neural implants.

If House played Eve: http://i.imgur.com/y7ShT.jpg

But in purple, I'm stunning!
Reiisha
#140 - 2014-11-16 13:53:13 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:
Fun is all about a person's intrinsic motivators. It has nothing to do with game mechanics. It worries me that whatever complaints were voiced that are getting this removed are coming from the people that come into a game and complain about it instead of accept what is, when they'll be leaving in 2 months anyway because they already don't like the core of the game. The core of the game being exhibited by ancillary mechanics like clones, obviously.

Language is a funny thing. Calling it "anti-progressive" or "stagnant" implies a negative, despite reality being that sometimes things are the way they are for good reasons.

Quote:
Freedom of speech hasn't changed that much in the U.S. consitution. It's so anti-progressive and stagnant. Better change it.


As an example of why this strawman of calling things "anti-progressive" is exacttly that, a strawman.


I'd love to fly more frigs, but i really don't feel like doing that when clones cost me 65m a pop.

Clone costs discourage more fights than they cause... The costs aren't as much 'stakes' are they are an annoyance.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...