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Null sec & Worm hole ideas.

Author
Jenshae Chiroptera
#1 - 2011-10-24 16:37:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Brain storming is a process of throwing all ideas into the stew and coming up with solutions or improvements. For example, one famous one is where a guy suggested they put gun powder on the walls under paint so that they can blow the paint off. That lead to the paint removing chemicals.

I will be making a list of all ideas put forward in this thread, the "good" and the "bad." Maybe they will serve as inspiration. Okay to start off.

Sentry drones
- that can be left at gates, ore deposits or worm hole entrances. They would report activity to the owner before someone can cloak but they can be shot and therefore information can be limited. You also wouldn't know when they left. They can also be set to report back if it is red, war target or neutral.
Player jump gates
- gates that can be built, destroyed or made covertly (like the smuggler ones we find in missions and would need to be scanned down) You need to go to their system and destroy their gate to stop them launching into your system and vice versa. They could have trouble retreating. This will allow for "divide and conquer" of the big alliance in null sec.
Worm hole outposts
- people live in them permanently and like high sec, have no interest to move to null sec. What harm would it do to let them build a bigger base? It isn't like they can control a region of WHs because the links keep changing.
Null sec stealing
- some mechanism to steal resources or ISK off player controlled stations and outposts.
Null sec no local
- self explanatory
Covert POS
- Built in an anomoly and needs to be scanned down,
- has a cloak, which is disrupted for a minute when people warp in or out of it.
- cloak only extends 2km beyond the shield so if you don't tuck your mods in close they will be found.
- very limited on power grid so you can't have many POS guns but you can have ECM.
Remove NPC report
- people can tell if others are active in a system by the number of NPCs reporting back. Concord isn't meant to be in worm holes or null sec so why are these reports being made?
Malfunctioning gates
- like POS guns, they can be incapacitated and need to be repaired in hull, armour and shields to be usable again. Helps disrupt movements.
D-scan
Make it auto but penalise it like auto-pilot, i.e. slow.
Let us ignore particular results by right click, similar to when you are probe scanning; so we don't have to read through all the friendly stuff each time.
Make it scale thin, I only need the ship names in a long list, not 1/6th of my screen used widely.
If you don't give auto scan - at least let us drag the button to the modules hot bar so that we can mindlessly press F1-F8.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#2 - 2011-10-24 16:39:02 UTC
[Reserved for more space later]

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#3 - 2011-10-28 17:06:13 UTC
What?

Something about too many ideas in the first post?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Lharanai
Fools of the Blue Oyster
#4 - 2011-10-28 20:16:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Lharanai
bump here

but also an Idea of myself to bring casual industrial players out of high sec

industrial mobile defense plattforms, and I mean DEFENSE not Battlestations

Aim:
give Industrials in small corps the chance at least to survive in low and null sec

What they could do:
create a protection sphere for industrial ships
the protection sphere prevents warp to zero, delays locking and scrambling it also uncloaks stealths
the mobile defense platform is a tank ship (ewar) but the protection only works for industrial ships
the size and function of the protection sphere depends on the mods (i.e. high slot = size of the sphere, mid slots = quality of the sphere, low slots = tank quality)
mid slots can also be fitted with ewar mods or whatever you want, same for low slots

What they could/should not do:
Damage, high slots are reserved for DEFENSE mods or civil mods like salvager, tractor, logistic mods but no WEAPONS and no drones
to set up the DEFENSE sphere takes time, not immediate, same with putting the sphere down, in defense mode, the platform pilot cannot warp out
they are slow...really slow...its a platform
the DEFENSE sphere works only for Industrial ships, to make it a little bit more fair, these industrials have to have a rig to get the protection of the sphere

The concept:

the INDUSTRIAL MOBILE DEFENSE PLATFORM (IMDP) buys time for Industrials either to escape or to survive until help arrives.

the IMDP pilot sacrifices himself to protect his indy friends, therefore the prize for the platform should be around a BS, not too expensive as they are build to die hard but to safe the ISK invested into the industrial ships.

EDIT* Backdraw...BOTS will love it

Seriously, don't take me serious, I MEAN IT...seriously

Jenshae Chiroptera
#5 - 2011-10-28 23:04:11 UTC
Lharanai wrote:

EDIT* Backdraw...BOTS will love it


Your idea is rather large and on the first page so going to leave it there. Bots can be detected, they tend to be rather exact in their patterns. Timing and such, humans are too messy.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Solinuas
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2011-10-29 01:52:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Solinuas
Clearing something up, its the GATES that are responsible for local, if you are using a stargate there is local, because the second you jump through it projects your info into a local list.

So nullsec will have local, unless ccp feels like dumping their lore.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#7 - 2011-10-29 14:28:12 UTC
... right so ... coming through via Cyno or worm holes you don't appear in Local? What?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#8 - 2011-12-14 13:42:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
This thread has been updated.

Linking this (General Discussion threadX ) for idea plundering later.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Lucien Visteen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2011-12-14 15:09:01 UTC
I would like to suggest a player created defence force instead of sentry drones. A group of fighters that reacts to players that make hostile actions against the alliance the outpost belongs too. Give it a capacity of maybe 20 drones, or 4 active targets.
And only available in systems with outposts.

The agressor will have the fighters on him/her until he/she is either destroyed or changes system.

What do you think?

The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't.

Icarus Helia
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2011-12-14 15:12:56 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Brain storming is a process of throwing all ideas into the stew and coming up with solutions or improvements. For example, one famous one is where a guy suggested they put gun powder on the walls under paint so that they can blow the paint off. That lead to the paint removing chemicals.

I will be making a list of all ideas put forward in this thread, the "good" and the "bad." Maybe they will serve as inspiration. Okay to start off.

Sentry drones
- that can be left at gates, ore deposits or worm hole entrances. They would report activity to the owner before someone can cloak but they can be shot and therefore information can be limited. You also wouldn't know when they left. They can also be set to report back if it is red, war target or neutral.
Player jump gates
- gates that can be built, destroyed or made covertly (like the smuggler ones we find in missions and would need to be scanned down) You need to go to their system and destroy their gate to stop them launching into your system and vice versa. They could have trouble retreating. This will allow for "divide and conquer" of the big alliance in null sec.
Worm hole outposts
- people live in them permanently and like high sec, have no interest to move to null sec. What harm would it do to let them build a bigger base? It isn't like they can control a region of WHs because the links keep changing.
Null sec stealing
- some mechanism to steal resources or ISK off player controlled stations and outposts.
Null sec no local
- self explanatory
Covert POS
- Built in an anomoly and needs to be scanned down, possibly has a cloak, which is disrupted when people warp in or out of it.
Remove NPC report
- people can tell if others are active in a system by the number of NPCs reporting back. Concord isn't meant to be in worm holes or null sec so why are these reports being made?
Malfunctioning gates
- like POS guns, they can be incapacitated and need to be repaired in hull, armour and shields to be usable again. Helps disrupt movements.
D-scan
Make it auto but penalise it like auto-pilot, i.e. slow.
Let us ignore particular like when probe scanning so we don't have to read through all the friendly stuff each time
Make it scale thin, I only need the ship names in a long list, not 1/6th of my screen used widely.


sentry drones - i dont know how i feel about this. I mean, personally I like it, but realistically I think it would take away a big reason to have scouts in gang.

player jump gates - sounds good, but again kind of a bad idea, this is what black ops,titans, and jump bridge networks are for.

wormhole outposts - no. C5 and C6 wormholes can make enough isk in a week or two to install a station - this effectively means that all wormhole residents will want one, and will get one, and it will be most definitely amarr or minmatar. this will remove the need for ever leaving their system except to sell loot, because they wouldn't have to fuel pos's (or at least not as many)

null sec stealing - interested? but you really need to flesh this idea out rather than being so vague.

null sec no local - yes yes yes (old idea though brosef)

covert pos - most pos's already need to be scanned down because there are so damn many moons. also this just seems kind of useless? but it doesn't break anything I can think of so I won't say no.

Remove NPC report - definitely.

Malfunctioning gates - sounds interesting. would certainly improve black ops and titan validity, as well as encouraging wh scanning to find your enemy's space. seems exploitable though, whats to stop a group from taking a system and locking themselves in it for as long as they please? is this a way to disable only one side of a gate maybe?

D-scan - this needs serious improvements in general, but yeah - being able to see the sig ID's of everything on d scan would be nice, instead of guessing when probing. also being able to ignore certain results would be nice as well.

Why you no care?

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-12-14 15:17:21 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Null sec no local
- self explanatory

Until there's some sort of alternative intelligence gathering system, no.

Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Covert POS
- Built in an anomoly and needs to be scanned down, possibly has a cloak, which is disrupted when people warp in or out of it.

No. I see no point to it.

Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
D-scan
Make it auto but penalise it like auto-pilot, i.e. slow.
Let us ignore particular like when probe scanning so we don't have to read through all the friendly stuff each time
Make it scale thin, I only need the ship names in a long list, not 1/6th of my screen used widely.

What, pilots aren't using enough server-side CPU as it is?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Jenshae Chiroptera
#12 - 2011-12-15 08:10:20 UTC
Icarus Helia wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

Covert POS
- Built in an anomoly and needs to be scanned down, possibly has a cloak, which is disrupted when people warp in or out of it.


covert pos - most pos's already need to be scanned down because there are so damn many moons. also this just seems kind of useless? but it doesn't break anything I can think of so I won't say no.

Remove NPC report - definitely..

Just replying to this part for now.


These two coupled with no Local means that you could covertly live in a system, right under someone's nose. Being a parasite.

They would try to catch your fuelling ships and things. However, covert POS should not allow some things, such as jump bridges, laboratories and such. They are purely, hangar, cloaked bubble, maintenance, guns, hardeners and ECM modules.

Just a base to operate from to mine, rat, PVP, et cetera.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

L0rdF1end
Tactical Grace.
Vanguard.
#13 - 2011-12-15 13:50:05 UTC
I like your first idea and have though about similar before -

"Sentry drones
- that can be left at gates, ore deposits or worm hole entrances. They would report activity to the owner before someone can cloak but they can be shot and therefore information can be limited. You also wouldn't know when they left. They can also be set to report back if it is red, war target or neutral.
"

I would prefer a deployable Sentry Gun that could be deployed anywhere to keep watch. It could have agression settings like a POS.
Different versions for different things, Like a Sentry cannon to assist in POS take downs.
A smaller version to watch over a gate, or belt or whatever.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#14 - 2011-12-17 01:33:27 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

Covert POS
- Built in an anomoly and needs to be scanned down,
- has a cloak, which is disrupted for a minute when people warp in or out of it.
- cloak only extends 2km beyond the shield so if you don't tuck your mods in close they will be found.
- very limited on power grid so you can't have many POS guns but you can have ECM.

D-scan
Make it scale thin, I only need the ship names in a long list, not 1/6th of my screen used widely.
If you don't give auto scan - at least let us drag the button to the modules hot bar so that we can mindlessly press F1-F8.


Made some changes and additions.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#15 - 2011-12-17 03:14:53 UTC
Sentry drones giving free unearned intel? It was a bad idea in October and it's still bad now.

Stop trying to break wormholes. We don't need an easy button, we don't need outposts.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#16 - 2011-12-17 03:17:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Sentry drones giving free unearned intel? It was a bad idea in October and it's still bad now. .


I bet you use covert ships as warp to points a great deal! Roll

... and the information is not completely unearned. You sacrifice one of the drones you can use, have to find that particular link (which won't possible to apply to new ones) and get close to it to place the drone.

It would be a more in game way of knowing some things about your system than the API jump info was doing.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#17 - 2011-12-17 03:26:28 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Sentry drones giving free unearned intel? It was a bad idea in October and it's still bad now. .


I bet you use covert ships as warp to points a great deal! Roll

... and the information is not completely unearned. You sacrifice one of the drones you can use, have to find that particular link (which won't possible to apply to new ones) and get close to it to place the drone.

It would be a more in game way of knowing some things about your system than the API jump info was doing.


You're making it too easy. Taking away the risk. Frankly, that would suck.

Right now, when you first warp to a hole that's fresh there's absolutely no risk... the hole doesn't spawn a K162 until you start to warp to it on grid. So, you scan it down, start warp and get your warp to zero bookmark, hop in and see what's there... from that point, you either need to actively keep an eye on things or risk someone being able to come in while you're not looking or even paying attention.

You make it too easy, reducing the humen error element. That's a really major nerf in and of itself. Wormhole living DOES NOT NEED to be nerfed/ made easier. Stay in your empire cities, leave the frontiers to the people that like 'em that way.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#18 - 2011-12-17 03:27:38 UTC
Solinuas wrote:
Clearing something up, its the GATES that are responsible for local, if you are using a stargate there is local, because the second you jump through it projects your info into a local list.

So nullsec will have local, unless ccp feels like dumping their lore.


I'm calling BS on this.

I've heard it before, but I'm 99.99% certain it was "lore" that was created well after the fact as a justification for the design oversight that is Local Chat Intel, if it was created officially by CCP at all. Even if I'm entirely wrong on this and everything you said about Gates, Local Intel, and the Lore is true, CCP has already dumped their lore since ships that use Jump Bridges etc still show up on Local without jumping through said gates.

In any case such Lore as you describe doesn't underpin the EVE story at all and could be easily changed, hardly making it justification for keeping broken Local Chat Intel.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#19 - 2011-12-17 03:57:29 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:

Right now, when you first warp to a hole that's fresh there's absolutely no risk... the hole doesn't spawn a K162 until you start to warp to it on grid.


... because hitting D-scan repeatedly and having no counter for a covert warp to ship is excellent game play? Roll

You are deliberately excluding all the worm holes that PVP people will be opening into your system while you are mining or ratting. Roll

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Ampoliros
Aperture Harmonics
#20 - 2011-12-17 04:27:54 UTC
all these ideas regarding wormhole space completely miss the mark of what w-space was intended to be, and fundamentally change it in a very bad way

so no thanks
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