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Crime & Punishment

 
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Tricky aggro mechanics
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Samuel Briar
You Dont Know Us
#1 - 2011-12-15 02:12:13 UTC
Hello den of criminals, scumsuckers, and general no-gooders. Let us go over a specific circumstance which I have come upon lately:

Two corps are at war. One is fielding at least 3 pilots, one on the undock of a station, and many more inside the station. Corp two has only one pilot online. The pilot for corp two could, of course, AFK in station all day, but that wouldn't be much fun. Instead he wants to engage. He plays docking games for a bit and notices that when the single guy on the undock shoots him, he gets an aggression timer for the pilot sitting on the undock... but not his entire corp. He drops corp, undocks, and shoots. The pilot on the undock, not religiously checking corp affiliation, immediately fires back as he tells his friends to come out and get a piece of that guy. His corp undocks, and... What happens? Can they shoot? Logic says no, but aggro mechanics are funky like that. Has anyone done this before? Will the guy on the undock have the pilot from the second corp flashy when he undocks, or will the undocking pilot have to shoot first? Basically, how can this situation be exploited to minimize or exclude reinforcements?
Horus Menvra
DREAD DOWN DREAD DOWN
#2 - 2011-12-15 04:36:13 UTC
Samuel Briar wrote:
Hello den of criminals, scumsuckers, and general no-gooders. Let us go over a specific circumstance which I have come upon lately:

Two corps are at war. One is fielding at least 3 pilots, one on the undock of a station, and many more inside the station. Corp two has only one pilot online. The pilot for corp two could, of course, AFK in station all day, but that wouldn't be much fun. Instead he wants to engage. He plays docking games for a bit and notices that when the single guy on the undock shoots him, he gets an aggression timer for the pilot sitting on the undock... but not his entire corp. He drops corp, undocks, and shoots. The pilot on the undock, not religiously checking corp affiliation, immediately fires back as he tells his friends to come out and get a piece of that guy. His corp undocks, and... What happens? Can they shoot? Logic says no, but aggro mechanics are funky like that. Has anyone done this before? Will the guy on the undock have the pilot from the second corp flashy when he undocks, or will the undocking pilot have to shoot first? Basically, how can this situation be exploited to minimize or exclude reinforcements?


In the situation you described, you will only gain an individual aggression flag against the player on the undock. The other members of his corp/alliance will be unable to shoot you without going GCC. The only way they will be able to do so is if you gained aggro to the undocked pilot's corp via regular mechanics (eg stealing a can, RRing someone at war with them/aggression towards them, etc).
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#3 - 2011-12-15 05:04:20 UTC
if you do this they can petition it as an exploit.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards
#4 - 2011-12-15 05:52:32 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
if you do this they can petition it as an exploit.


Whether or not the GMs care is another matter entirely.

http://www.wormholes.info
Lithalnas
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#5 - 2011-12-15 06:30:28 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
if you do this they can petition it as an exploit.


I had this happen, if i remember correctly the gm response was something along the lines of:

Well that sounds rough. Have a nice day.

The logs show nothing.

https://www.facebook.com/RipSeanVileRatSmith shoot at blue for Vile Rat http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73406
Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
#6 - 2011-12-15 06:34:17 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
if you do this they can petition it as an exploit.


It's only an exploit if there is not a session change between when you drop corp and when you engage. Undocking from station is sufficient, as there is a session change. Furthermore, he's not trying to get anyone Concorded, he's just trying to get a solid 1v1 with the guy he has aggro on...Pretty sure this is legit.
ZANE VOIDSTALKER
Space Wizards.
Tactical Narcotics Team
#7 - 2011-12-15 07:04:49 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
if you do this they can petition it as an exploit.



no as long as there was a seesion change its not petionable. new rule is what ever is alowed by game in warfare goes
ZANE VOIDSTALKER
Space Wizards.
Tactical Narcotics Team
#8 - 2011-12-15 07:05:00 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
if you do this they can petition it as an exploit.



no as long as there was a seesion change its not petionable. new rule is what ever is alowed by game in warfare goes
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front - Reborn
#9 - 2011-12-15 08:00:34 UTC
Im pretty sure you have a 24 hour cool down when you leave a corp too, so youll still be a valid target even in a NPC corp.

Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
Vile EnEon
Breast Augmentation Charity Society
#10 - 2011-12-15 17:27:08 UTC
Ynot Eyob wrote:
Im pretty sure you have a 24 hour cool down when you leave a corp too, so youll still be a valid target even in a NPC corp.


If you are planning to implement this, which I highly suggest, then you make certain to have dropped corp roles long before playing this hand. (corp roles trigger the 24hr cool down)
Samuel Briar
You Dont Know Us
#11 - 2011-12-15 18:04:44 UTC
To clarify - Do corp roles trigger the 24h stasis period that you seem to be referring to, or a seperate 24h timer where you can be shot while out of corp? It does not make sense for the latter, since starting to drop roles takes 24h regardless.
Griznatch
Distinguished Gentleman's Boating Club
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#12 - 2011-12-15 18:58:34 UTC
Dropping roles means 24 hours till you can drop corp. If you have no roles you can drop corp immediately and you are no longer blinky the instant you drop corp.

I used to have a clever sig but I lost it.
Knob McDouchNozle
Unrequested Fission Surplus
#13 - 2011-12-15 19:12:50 UTC
Something to consider...

I spent a little time in RvB awhile back and people were jumping in and out of the corps (which were wardecced to each other) all the time but their lingering membership in their former corps was often an 'issue'.

It was not infrequent to have half a fleet be able to aggress a target freely while the other half got warnings from Concord at the same moment because each account was interpreting the target's corp status differently. It happened alot, in fact... I know because I used to would sacrifce my ship to concord to get on the KM if the target was juicy enough. Blink

Recruiting All Forum Alts
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#14 - 2011-12-15 19:54:10 UTC
Apologies if I gave incorrect information.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Horus Menvra
DREAD DOWN DREAD DOWN
#15 - 2011-12-16 03:18:13 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Apologies if I gave incorrect information.


It's only an exploit if you join a corp to kill someone without a session change. It's perfectly legal to drop corp at any time, regardless of aggression and/or session change.
Samuel Briar
You Dont Know Us
#16 - 2011-12-16 03:24:22 UTC
Well, good news. We tried this in the field and it worked very well. Almost lost the target due to him deaggressing, but we ended up bumping him off the undock and he DIAF. No problems whatsoever with corp aggression. Thank you any and all that answered.
Starlight Kouvo
Howl at the Moon
#17 - 2011-12-16 11:19:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Starlight Kouvo
I am new to the game and basically no PVP experience but will be joing a Corp soon that is in Faction War. I listen to the Corp members is Voice coms as they transit systems avoiding war targets etc while solo untill they can fleet up to a small force.

Also my knowledge of joining / leaving corps is non existant other than as discussed above.


So...

Is the above not an exploit that could be used to go neutral for system transit to trade hubs/ potential enemy systems then when you are ready just re join Corp (assuming its instant) or is there a whole lot I do not understand Oops
Tarsas Phage
Sniggerdly
#18 - 2011-12-16 17:10:16 UTC
A little bit of outdated info in this thread.

What the guy did, under current rules, is valid. He was in-station, online, and dropped from his corp. He then attacked the people he had a player-player aggression timer against.

The current rules are:

1) A person may leave OR be kicked from a corp while either on- or offline while docked in station, OR while in space AND offline.

2) A person may be accepted into a corp while offline in space or docked, OR while online AND docked.

Note the last bit there in #2... the recently clarified rules state that the old trick of sitting on a gate in a neutral corp, then being accepted into a warring corp and jumping through the gate to force a session timer and attacking the other warring party is, while the game lets you do this, a petitionable action.
Atomik Harmonik
Working Girls
#19 - 2011-12-16 17:12:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Atomik Harmonik
Vile EnEon wrote:
Ynot Eyob wrote:
Im pretty sure you have a 24 hour cool down when you leave a corp too, so youll still be a valid target even in a NPC corp.


If you are planning to implement this, which I highly suggest, then you make certain to have dropped corp roles long before playing this hand. (corp roles trigger the 24hr cool down)



Be sure and wash your hands before playing with the corp rolls and don't drop them. They're there for everyone, so don't be grabby and don't spread germs.
I likegirls
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort
Deepwater Hooligans
#20 - 2011-12-17 03:29:26 UTC
Starlight Kouvo wrote:
I am new to the game and basically no PVP experience but will be joing a Corp soon that is in Faction War. I listen to the Corp members is Voice coms as they transit systems avoiding war targets etc while solo untill they can fleet up to a small force.

Also my knowledge of joining / leaving corps is non existant other than as discussed above.


So...

Is the above not an exploit that could be used to go neutral for system transit to trade hubs/ potential enemy systems then when you are ready just re join Corp (assuming its instant) or is there a whole lot I do not understand Oops


So you post in a thread you know nothing about, apparently don't read any of the responses and then you ask a question awkwardly?