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[Proposal] Name Changing

First post
Author
Paulize Dn'Injer
#21 - 2011-09-13 03:03:32 UTC
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Ugh, Eve should never have a name change facility. Bad idea.

Dressing it up with "What Name Changing intends to do is provide a regulated alternative to Character Transfers, in essence, reducing the amount of unregulated actions making EVE more secure while actually improving immersion and blah blah blah" does not make it a good idea.

Do not support.

Why. If you can't make a simple rebuttal then you don't have a point to stand on. Try again.
Paulize Dn'Injer
#22 - 2011-09-13 03:09:34 UTC
Kaelie Onren wrote:
Dodging reputation, evasion of consequence, meta-gaming, all bad things that come from the allowed practice of character transfers is only made worse with the addition of name changing. Until the priors are solved first, let's not introduce more problems. Do not like.

You’re pretty shameless to post all high-and -mighty when you couldn’t provide a rebuttal for that in the last thread. Then again, I’d hate to suffer another of your soliloquy-quits in this thread…
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#23 - 2011-09-13 03:21:39 UTC
I would just like to see it as part of the character transfer system. You buy the skillset and have to make a new name and portrait. This lets toons be transferred without any drama following them.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Jagga Spikes
Spikes Chop Shop
#24 - 2011-09-13 07:20:32 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I would just like to see it as part of the character transfer system. You buy the skillset and have to make a new name and portrait. This lets toons be transferred without any drama following them.


actually, drama following the character is what has to be preserved. name change is simply convenience for the player and should not have (or have least possible) influence on character identity. trained character don't come out of nowhere, but they should not be set in stone, either.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#25 - 2011-09-13 07:48:00 UTC
Paulize Dn'Injer wrote:
Why. If you can't make a simple rebuttal then you don't have a point to stand on. Try again.


I see, roll out the 'you cant make a rebuttle' train on anyone who does not support your idea. Well done, 3/10.

Maybe this will do it for ya....>

CCP Zymurgist said the following, in this thread

CCP Zymurgist wrote:
EVE characters are built on reputation. Your name is who you are and will always be. Really the only way to "change" this would be to buy a new character and sell the old one off. All that will change is who is playing the character though as the name will always represent the character's past deeds.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Jagga Spikes
Spikes Chop Shop
#26 - 2011-09-13 09:00:10 UTC
Jint Hikaru wrote:
...

CCP Zymurgist said the following, in this thread

CCP Zymurgist wrote:
EVE characters are built on reputation. Your name is who you are and will always be. Really the only way to "change" this would be to buy a new character and sell the old one off. All that will change is who is playing the character though as the name will always represent the character's past deeds.


fail. name is a word. it's a handle. it's just a part (a social pointer if you will) of what character is. changing name does not change who character is. changing name does not suddenly point to some other character.

but if suddenly someone else possess character, they become someone else, and all the reputation will mean nothing because they start acting differently. so, name stays same, but everything else is not same. it's exactly what already exists in game: character transfers.

bashing down proposal (name change) on basis that it goes against game's principle (reputation matters), while said proposal does everything to uphold the principle (akka, searchable history, standings permanence) AND having functional game mechanic (character transfers) that breaks said principle is poor form.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#27 - 2011-09-13 11:06:18 UTC
Quote:
fail. name is a word. it's a handle. it's just a part (a social pointer if you will) of what character is. changing name does not change who character is.


Not fail.... a name is the character.

If I am in a system and a name i recognize comes into the system, its linked to my memories of that character and what reputation that person has with me.

If I have a name of someone who keeps trying to kill me on a Post-it on my moniter, I can 'bug-out' if I see them.

Allowing namechanges will remove that recognition from the game!


And dont suggest list of aliases in character sheet. I can't look up every person I want to look out for, every day just in case they have namechanged.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Jagga Spikes
Spikes Chop Shop
#28 - 2011-09-13 11:46:55 UTC
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Quote:
fail. name is a word. it's a handle. it's just a part (a social pointer if you will) of what character is. changing name does not change who character is.


Not fail.... a name is the character.

If I am in a system and a name i recognize comes into the system, its linked to my memories of that character and what reputation that person has with me.

If I have a name of someone who keeps trying to kill me on a Post-it on my moniter, I can 'bug-out' if I see them.

Allowing namechanges will remove that recognition from the game!


And dont suggest list of aliases in character sheet. I can't look up every person I want to look out for, every day just in case they have namechanged.


how do you know character wasn't transferred? or even, how would you know character was transferred (as any available record can be faked)? so, instead of depending on name recognition, that doesn't work (as you can't be sure that character is played by the same player), why not depending on game mechanics (standings) and/or improved awareness and tactics on your part to make yourself safer?

OP proposal includes fee (cost) and frequency (cooldown between name changes). so, you could still depend on name recognition, just with a twist now and then, which can be reduced in effect through standings.
Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
#29 - 2011-09-13 11:47:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Meissa Anunthiel
One's name is everything. Corp thieves can be identified using that, as can reputation, as a whole. I know from entering local who people are, known pirates, etc. I really don't feel like going over history everytime I see a new name. Corp history or "AKAs" do not quite cover it.

Character transfers, tough luck, if you buy a character you're supposed to do some due diligence on that guy's history.

The only thing name changes are acceptable, to me, is typos or capitalization, and GMs already allow that. The former soon after creation, the latter pretty much anytime I believe.

So, no...

PS: this topic was discussed during CSM 3, check the minutes to hear the arguments for and against etc.

Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7

Jagga Spikes
Spikes Chop Shop
#30 - 2011-09-13 12:44:55 UTC
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
One's name is everything. Corp thieves can be identified using that, as can reputation, as a whole. I know from entering local who people are, known pirates, etc. I really don't feel like going over history everytime I see a new name. Corp history or "AKAs" do not quite cover it.

Character transfers, tough luck, if you buy a character you're supposed to do some due diligence on that guy's history.

The only thing name changes are acceptable, to me, is typos or capitalization, and GMs already allow that. The former soon after creation, the latter pretty much anytime I believe.

So, no...

PS: this topic was discussed during CSM 3, check the minutes to hear the arguments for and against etc.


"stupid" forum ate my post.

character transfers are reality. if CCP could stop them, they would. they can't.

only stupid thieves would go for name change (as proposed) instead of blank char transfer.

checking bio/history was, is and will be intel gathering of choice, with or without name change.

stop talking about some ideal EVE. talk about EVE as it is.
Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
#31 - 2011-09-13 13:19:11 UTC
Jagga Spikes wrote:

checking bio/history was, is and will be intel gathering of choice, with or without name change.

stop talking about some ideal EVE. talk about EVE as it is.


Maybe so for you, but I can tell you for a fact smaller corporations do check for background based on names, that's how it is.

Also, that still doesn't address the issue I pointed out. If I travel in lowsec, there's blokes I know are permacamping gates with SBing rokhs, why should they get a free pass at a new name?

Also some people are known cyno scout alts, I know from looking at them who they are without having to do some digging through history and former names and transfers and whatnot.

The inconvenience to the many does not warrant the convenience to the few in this case. You have a name, live with it.

Still nope from me.

Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7

Jagga Spikes
Spikes Chop Shop
#32 - 2011-09-13 13:48:21 UTC
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
Jagga Spikes wrote:

checking bio/history was, is and will be intel gathering of choice, with or without name change.

stop talking about some ideal EVE. talk about EVE as it is.


Maybe so for you, but I can tell you for a fact smaller corporations do check for background based on names, that's how it is.
...


please, elaborate. i don't see how doing background checks based on name is bad.

Quote:

Also, that still doesn't address the issue I pointed out. If I travel in lowsec, there's blokes I know are permacamping gates with SBing rokhs, why should they get a free pass at a new name?
...


do you know everyone in EVE? not likely, but if you do, name changes won't affect you, as you know everyone anyway. if you don't, you ARE already checking on people you don't know. old players stop playing, new players start playing. EVE's not frozen in time. also, it's not like suddenly everyone YOU know will change their name simultaneously, and keep changing just in spite.

Quote:

Also some people are known cyno scout alts, I know from looking at them who they are without having to do some digging through history and former names and transfers and whatnot.
...


cyno alts are cheap. they can be trained much faster than proposed name change frequency period.
Paulize Dn'Injer
#33 - 2011-09-15 03:06:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Paulize Dn'Injer
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Paulize Dn'Injer wrote:
Why. If you can't make a simple rebuttal then you don't have a point to stand on. Try again.


I see, roll out the 'you cant make a rebuttle' train on anyone who does not support your idea. Well done, 3/10.

Maybe this will do it for ya....>

CCP Zymurgist said the following, in this thread

CCP Zymurgist wrote:
EVE characters are built on reputation. Your name is who you are and will always be. Really the only way to "change" this would be to buy a new character and sell the old one off. All that will change is who is playing the character though as the name will always represent the character's past deeds.

I see, roll out the 'fraction' train on anyone who doesn't support your idea. Well done, 3/10.

Maybe this will do it for ya....>

CCP Hellmar said the following, in this dev blog
CCP Hellmar wrote:
It has been proven that name and/or appearance changes are a necessary part of any successful MMOG platform; it is just a matter of what time the ability to change names or appearances is implemented. However, as with any major changes to the identity of a character, there are issues that must be resolved. There are countless examples were a name change can be exploited. I am sure we can all agree that name changes need to be limited and placing a monetary value on it is a simple and effective way to achieve such a limitation. As this is an _out of game action_, it needs out of game limitations
Paulize Dn'Injer
#34 - 2011-09-15 03:16:27 UTC
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
One's name is everything. Corp thieves can be identified using that, as can reputation, as a whole. I know from entering local who people are, known pirates, etc. I really don't feel like going over history everytime I see a new name. Corp history or "AKAs" do not quite cover it.

Character transfers, tough luck, if you buy a character you're supposed to do some due diligence on that guy's history.

The only thing name changes are acceptable, to me, is typos or capitalization, and GMs already allow that. The former soon after creation, the latter pretty much anytime I believe.

So, no...

PS: this topic was discussed during CSM 3, check the minutes to hear the arguments for and against etc.


Ones name is just a name -- proof being how characters are transfered

Corp theives can still be identified, as can reputation, as a whole

So you're saying you know every single pirate in EVE by name? If you have them set to red, they'll still be set to red -- and that's enough to know that they don't want to cuddle. That covers it.

So, yes...

PS: Post a link? ...because if this is the quality of arguement against it, then there's no problem
Paulize Dn'Injer
#35 - 2011-09-15 03:28:49 UTC
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
Maybe so for you, but I can tell you for a fact smaller corporations do check for background based on names, that's how it is.

Also, that still doesn't address the issue I pointed out. If I travel in lowsec, there's blokes I know are permacamping gates with SBing rokhs, why should they get a free pass at a new name?

Also some people are known cyno scout alts, I know from looking at them who they are without having to do some digging through history and former names and transfers and whatnot.

The inconvenience to the many does not warrant the convenience to the few in this case. You have a name, live with it.

Still nope from me.


They can still check for background based on names, that's how it will be (AKA)

In that scenario it doesn't matter what their names are -- you fell into a camp and you're screwed. Anyway, reds wil still be reds -- obviously they aren't camping for a suprise party

Cyno ALTS

Your inconvenineces aren't thought through in this case. I have a name, I'll do something about it

Still yup from me
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#36 - 2011-09-15 03:39:37 UTC
Jagga Spikes wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I would just like to see it as part of the character transfer system. You buy the skillset and have to make a new name and portrait. This lets toons be transferred without any drama following them.


actually, drama following the character is what has to be preserved. name change is simply convenience for the player and should not have (or have least possible) influence on character identity. trained character don't come out of nowhere, but they should not be set in stone, either.

There was a thread recently about someone cyber-stalking a woman(?) and her teenage son. It was suggested that they sell their characters and get new ones. That harassment would follow those characters. Giving someone the option to simply rename the character at the time of purchase would allow them to break that sort of behavior.

If reputation is such a big deal in Eve, should you really be able to transfer a character's reputation when the rules clearly state you can't pretend to be the same person?

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Paulize Dn'Injer
#37 - 2011-09-15 03:39:38 UTC
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Quote:
fail. name is a word. it's a handle. it's just a part (a social pointer if you will) of what character is. changing name does not change who character is.


Not fail.... a name is the character.

If I am in a system and a name i recognize comes into the system, its linked to my memories of that character and what reputation that person has with me.

If I have a name of someone who keeps trying to kill me on a Post-it on my moniter, I can 'bug-out' if I see them.

Allowing namechanges will remove that recognition from the game!


And dont suggest list of aliases in character sheet. I can't look up every person I want to look out for, every day just in case they have namechanged.

A name is a character, characters are transferable

If you're in a system and a red comes into the system, it is linked to your memories of what it means to be red and what reputation that has with you... and once you're safe, you can read up via AKA

And you wouldn't otherwise?

Allowing name changes will preserve standings in the game!

You wont need to. Also, under the Debated Issues there is a Mass Mailing feature, tell me what you think about that




Now what happens if that person sold that character and bought a different one? Now you're out of luck -- better to have a name change than a transfer.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#38 - 2011-09-15 03:44:38 UTC
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
Jagga Spikes wrote:

checking bio/history was, is and will be intel gathering of choice, with or without name change.

stop talking about some ideal EVE. talk about EVE as it is.


Maybe so for you, but I can tell you for a fact smaller corporations do check for background based on names, that's how it is.

Also, that still doesn't address the issue I pointed out. If I travel in lowsec, there's blokes I know are permacamping gates with SBing rokhs, why should they get a free pass at a new name?

Also some people are known cyno scout alts, I know from looking at them who they are without having to do some digging through history and former names and transfers and whatnot.

The inconvenience to the many does not warrant the convenience to the few in this case. You have a name, live with it.

Still nope from me.


Cyno scouts and Rokh bombers are relatively easy to train and can be bought on the bazaar for reasonable prices. It would be nothing for those guys to jump characters NOW and have new names, new sec status, new everything, and you'd have to learn a whole new set of names.

I don't know if others are proposing the ability to change names just whenever you want, but I think it should ONLY be during character transfer.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Paulize Dn'Injer
#39 - 2011-09-15 04:06:00 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I don't know if others are proposing the ability to change names just whenever you want, but I think it should ONLY be during character transfer.

My philosophy is this: we can argue about the fine details later, lets just work past this ignorance that "Name Changing is going to cause the apocalypse"

I'll add that to the Debated Feature section
Katie Frost
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2011-09-15 06:34:35 UTC
I think that the pro's of allowing 'Name Changing' far outweigh the con's and I am yet to see an argument in this thread that suggests otherwise. The minor inconvenience that would be caused by checking a character's AKA tab, as you would with employment history for instance should not act as a barrier to add this highly sought-after feature.

I feel that the OP has accounted for all avenues where this feature could be exploited by indicating that name changing would bear a real cost - whether ISK or real money (not ***** aurum plz); time-limiting the number of name changes (much like re-mapping) and incorporating an easily accessed tab in character's profile that will provide anyone in the EVE Community with an easy overview of the player's previous names.

Unless I am missing a key mechanic of the game that would be broken by this action, I simply cannot see the logic that would prevent the implementation of this feature.